Shift: London's Rapid Transit Initiative

[Wharn]

I love some of the goddamn excuses being thrown out there by these idiot bureaucrats at Western.

Noise and vibration from the trains may affect classrooms and other facilities

Sooo... sort of like how students at U of T cannot possibly concentrate to save their lives thanks to the big bad 506 Carlton?

Electro-magnetic interference may affect nearby research labs

Again, sort of like how the 506 Carlton runs by the engineering building at U of T, with all that electromagnetically sensitive equipment inside? Or the 12-storey biology lab that also sits right in front of the streetcar line?

Student safety is paramount, especially after the recent on-campus death of a student pedestrian

This is actually really insulting. Are they suggesting that students cannot interact with light rail vehicles when we can SEE, with absolute precision, where they are going to go? It's a matter of looking at the bloody tracks and checking to make sure there are no trains neaby. If anyone manages to get hit by a streetcar, first of all they likely deserved it (more or less one of the most predictable vehicles you will ever run into... cannot possibly see how you can have a collision with one), and second of all, there is likely a lower risk of such an incident happening in the first place compared to, say, an LTC bus (especially when some drivers seem to think signalling is optional).

I never thought I would live to see the day where London City Council was more forward-thinking and logical than the supposed world-class academic institution.

Insofar as the route selection goes, I pity the fool who has to trek from Oxford and Wharncliffe to Oxford and Adelaide. It's a 10-minute drive by car, tops, but a roundabout wild goose chase using the LRT. Otherwise it seems pretty decent, especially on the North-South corridor (which I think is the most urgently needed). It would be great if this "other bridge" results in a new road connection on the Sarnia-Huron corridor as well, but I have a feeling this will never happen. If the University is going to start fighting this, one of the things they will most certainly dig trenches over is a road connection. And that isn't really a trench worth dying over either, especially since it looks like the city only has one shot at getting this done. Best to ruffle as few feathers as possible.

[Pimpmasterdac]

If LRT goes through UWO campus, a Sarina-Huron link would be inevitable. If the current campus bridge was to be retrofitted or rebuilt to handle LRT, It would likely be fully closed for a good portion of the construction.

Even during summer months it would be quite a challenge for east west movement to be restricted with a bridge closing a number of bus routes and traffic depend on the current Western bridge.

Building Sarnia Huron link first for general travel would be able to take cut through traffic out of campus once and for all, allow the current bridge to be retrofitted for just LRT, while still have east-west connections.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by Wharn

I never thought I would live to see the day where London City Council was more forward-thinking and logical than the supposed world-class academic institution.

Ha, world-Class academic institution run by a bunch of morons.

Student safety is paramount, especially after the recent on-campus death of a student pedestrian

I find it absurd that they even put this as a con to LRT. IMO, I don't understand how anyone can get hit by any vehicle. I mean, there are certain circumstances, like a drunk/wreckless driver who loses control and ends up on the sidewalk. But other than that, if students just look both ways before crossing, instead of just blindly walking out into the road, they'll be fine.

They're all just greedy assholes, who want to keep the money so they can pay their 6 figure salaries (or in Chakmas case, almost 7) for their new cars and summer homes.

[jaradthescot]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

I find it absurd that they even put this as a con to LRT. IMO, I don't understand how anyone can get hit by any vehicle. I mean, there are certain circumstances, like a drunk/wreckless driver who loses control and ends up on the sidewalk. But other than that, if students just look both ways before crossing, instead of just blindly walking out into the road, they'll be fine.

I included the same thing in an email to university officials. If student safety actually is paramount (call me skeptical) then the LRT is a much. It will reduce traffic in general and drunk driving both on campus and for students moving throughout the city.

[GreatTallNorth2]

This move makes a lot of sense...



City officials ponder changes to rapid transit

With the ink still drying on London’s $880-million rapid transit proposal, a radical change to the main downtown route may be in the works.

The Free Press has learned city officials are considering removing the high-volume buses or trains — and the portal taking them into an underground tunnel — from the traffic-heavy stretch of Richmond Street running through the core.

The significant switch, if ultimately approved, would spike the until-now proposed plan to run a southbound rapid transit line along Richmond and shift it over to Clarence Street, where a northbound line is already planned.

So, that means the north and south lines, starting and stopping at the York Street Via station, would both run along Clarence. And the southern portal to the tunnel — designed to avoid the traffic-clogging rail crossing at Richmond Row — would be built at the northern end of Clarence, essentially behind the Victoria Park bandshell.

The tunnel’s southern portal was slated to go smack dab in the middle of Richmond Row. But concerns from the public and businesses about its impact on congestion and pedestrian flow on Richmond sparked the potential change.


City hall's proposal for a rapid transit system is far from finalized, and a major potential change may loom -- moving the line, whether it's rail or bus, off Richmond Street's downtown stretch.

Like the overall rapid transit plan itself, none of this is etched in stone — much less officially approved by city council.

But the potential move off Richmond is “promising,” according to the core ward’s city councillor.

“This location (for the tunnel opening, on Clarence) is an attractive proposal,” Coun. Tanya Park said Monday.

“Not only would moving the entrance off Richmond create less of an impact to Richmond Row businesses, but it would also be a fantastic location because all the ingredients for a successful transit village already exist in close proximity” such as public spaces, shops and homes.

Rapid transit only works if it’s rapid — and that can’t happen if the light rail or buses are delayed by freight trains rumbling across the level rail crossing on Richmond Row.

Hence, the need for the underground tunnel.

Moving the southern tunnel portal to Clarence would make a huge difference for downtown, especially Richmond Row. But little else for the pre-existing proposal appears to be changing at this time:

*While the tunnel’s southern portal shifts to Clarence behind the Victoria Park bandshell, it would run underground and its northern portal back above ground stays the same — near the Richmond-Grosvenor Street intersection, close to St. Joseph’s hospital.

*From there, the proposed line, as previously planned, would continue along Richmond, juking west at the Western University gates and cutting through campus to Western Road.

*The rapid transit line would then head up Western Road, merging again with Richmond Street and continuing to its northern end-point, Masonville Place Mall.

Concerns over a rapid transit corridor upending Richmond Street’s downtown corridor have been no secret. Janette MacDonald, who represents core merchants, is pleased with the potential change.

“We were worried about Richmond Street,” she said of the rapid transit plan. “Anything that was going to effectively alter the cache of Richmond Row, we wouldn’t be happy about that.”

No part of the proposal — really, even whether London will have a rapid transit system at all — has yet been approved by city council. It’s also heavily dependent on hundreds of millions of dollars in not-yet-secured funding from Queen’s Park and Ottawa.

City council must decide whether it wants light rail, bus rapid transit or a hybrid of both.

Western University, for one, has expressed resistance to light rail, citing its potential impact on their campus.

A rail-bus hybrid would cost about $880 million. A bus-only system would cost as much as $525 million. Either one would be the largest single infrastructure project in city history.

[email protected]

twitter.com/patatLFPress

RAPID TRANSIT BASICS

London council is set this spring to select a rapid transit system. Politicians are leaning toward a light rail-bus hybrid system that would cost about $880 million.
That hybrid would run on L- and 7-shaped corridors bisecting the city, with downtown the fulcrum.
To the west and south, bus-only rapid transit. To the east and north, including through Western’s campus, would be light rail.
A potential change may move proposed rail lines off Richmond Street in the core to Clarence Street, where they would go north and south through a tunnel with openings at Richmond-Grosvenor (to the north) and Clarence by Victoria Park (to the south).
North of the tunnel, trains or buses would go through Western University’s campus to Western Road; they would then go on to Masonville Place Mall.
Western officials have shown early resistance to rail running through their campus.
About $125 million of the project funding would come from city hall, the rest required from Queen’s Park and Ottawa. Neither level of government has committed funding to the project.

[MolsonExport]

MTBR

To which I answer, What's your Vector, Victor?

[Rosso Corsa]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Ha, world-Class academic institution run by a bunch of morons.

They're all just greedy assholes, who want to keep the money so they can pay their 6 figure salaries (or in Chakmas case, almost 7) for their new cars and summer homes.

And what constructive action have you taken besides complain anonymously on a forum? Express your concern at any town hall meetings? Talked with anyone from City Hall? I agree that these claims are BS, but as an alumni, I want you to know that ignorant generalizations like this about well regarded educational institutions don't add value to the conversation and certainly don't bode well for your competence.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by Rosso Corsa

And what constructive action have you taken besides complain anonymously on a forum? Express your concern at any town hall meetings? Talked with anyone from City Hall? I agree that these claims are BS, but as an alumni, I want you to know that ignorant generalizations like this about well regarded educational institutions don't add value to the conversation and certainly don't bode well for your competence.

I'm a UWO alumnus (just the one) as well- so? He can make all the complaints he likes, whether he's alum or faculty or "just" a Londoner. And you and I are anonymous on here, too. I found all of the University's objections disingenuous, too, and there must be an ulterior motive (I have no idea what, but money's not a bad guess).

It's hard to take UWO seriously when they react like this to a plan that would do a lot of good for both the school and the city.

[Wharn]

I was walking along Clarence Street south of Victoria Park today... seems like kind of a desolate place for a rapid transit line...

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Building Sarnia Huron link first for general travel would be able to take cut through traffic out of campus once and for all, allow the current bridge to be retrofitted for just LRT, while still have east-west connections.

I was thinking about this on the drive home from work today, actually. Why would the University ever be opposed to the Sarnia-Huron link when the likely result of such a link would be a shift in traffic to the desolate southern tip of the campus (aka, "Mordor") and away from where all the students are? Isn't this a step in the right direction for "safety"? I think it would be fantastic if the University Bridge were closed to everything except transit vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians. It's far too narrow given the amount of traffic that goes over it now.

I think people in high places just don't want [what basically amounts to] an arterial road run through their pleasant, quiet existence on The Parkway, hence the roundabout opposition to the whole transit idea.

Originally Posted by Rosso Corsa

And what constructive action have you taken besides complain anonymously on a forum? Express your concern at any town hall meetings? Talked with anyone from City Hall? I agree that these claims are BS, but as an alumni, I want you to know that ignorant generalizations like this about well regarded educational institutions don't add value to the conversation and certainly don't bode well for your competence.

As an alumnus myself, I've more or less written off most of the UWO administrative team as a sack of worthless, insular automatons. I can certainly sympathize with tyeman's position because I've gone at loggerheads with these people before; whether it was over the whole "rebranding" debacle a few years back, or the absolutely pathetic performance of the career department. Never before have I seen a group of people so thoroughly convinced of their own competence and so utterly opposed to the consideration of outside opinion, even if that "outside" opinion comes from FACULTY AT UWO.

You can't reason with them. Town hall meetings and the like are a waste of time. You just have to find some way to go around them or confront them head-on and say "f--k you, we're doing x".

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

University's objections disingenuous, too, and there must be an ulterior motive (I have no idea what, but money's not a bad guess).

I love conspiracies as much as the next guy (see above re. Parkway), but I can't see how money would factor into this. Especially when the City is so desperate to get the steel bearings rolling that they'll likely fork over all the money needed to make this proposal happen. Unless you're thinking of some other way this would affect someone's net worth.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Wharn

As an alumnus myself, I've more or less written off most of the UWO administrative team as a sack of worthless, insular automatons. I can certainly sympathize with tyeman's position because I've gone at loggerheads with these people before; whether it was over the whole "rebranding" debacle a few years back, or the absolutely pathetic performance of the career department. Never before have I seen a group of people so thoroughly convinced of their own competence and so utterly opposed to the consideration of outside opinion, even if that "outside" opinion comes from FACULTY AT UWO.

You can't reason with them. Town hall meetings and the like are a waste of time. You just have to find some way to go around them or confront them head-on and say "f--k you, we're doing x".

Here is wisdom.

-11 year faculty member at UWO, and strong/active opponent of the rebranding.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Here is wisdom.

-11 year faculty member at UWO, and strong/active opponent of the rebranding.

I too am an alumnus of Western and have been mightily disappointed by the re-branding as well. To my way of thinking, calling the school just 'Western' is a mistake. It makes the school sound like a generic Any University Somewhere in North America.

I understand that the university administration may have wanted to change the name in hopes of making the school seem less parochial - that is to say, The University of Western Ontario could sound a bit parochial and like an institution of no repute tucked away in some backwater locale to some.

But if you look around, you'll see a lot of institutions with 'Western' in their name that are located in all kinds of podunk, two-bit locales everywhere in the United States. I wouldn't exactly call London a two-bit kind of town, even if the city administration does make some podunk-ish decisions from time to time.

The University of Western Ontario is a better name, because it ties the school with its location, and also makes it unique, because there is only one western Ontario anywhere in the world, and the abbreviation 'UWO' is also unique and distinguished.

And don't get me started on that abortion of a sign they've parked at the main gates of Brescia College. It looks like something that would grace a high school or one of those private business/vocational schools, not an old and respected institution that should present itself to the world with dignity and an air of gravitas. Cheesy doesn't even begin to describe that sign.

Now, as to the kvetching by Western's administration over the probability that the LRT line will run through the campus, all I can say is that they had better get with the programme. Because if they don't, three things will happen:

i) London, or the province (or both) will get an injunction forcing UWO to accept the LRT line;

ii) London could well sue the university for losses and increased costs caused by UWO's insistence that the LRT line will not transect the campus,

and

iii) Prospective students will (not may) be turned off by the emerging political brouhaha and lack of direct public transit access to the campus, and seek to complete their post-secondary studies elsewhere.

Most of UWO's concerns are ill-founded. I could see the concern about noise and vibration being valid if we were talking about a freight line being allowed to run through the campus. However, a properly designed and engineered LRT line should not generate much noise or vibration.

Modern LRT rolling stock is not the clanky, crashy, Sturm-und-Drang stuff of yore. Heck, when I went to Western, dozens of noisy, smelly diesel busses passed by the University Community Centre on a frequent basis, and I don't remember hearing any complaints about the noise or the smell.

In addition, there are many technical solutions that will address the potential problem of electromagnetic emissions coming from the LRT line, (if there are any, that is) and at worst, the city might have to spend a little extra on the project to install proper EMI abatement equipment.

[MolsonExport]

^outstanding post. Hear, hear!

Yeah, I laughed at the "vibrations" bs spun by the VP operations. What a crock. We have heavy trucks passing through all the time, and these rattle the buildings more than a light rail system. Europe has light rail right next to Gothic cathedrals from the 1100's...I have seen it firsthand. And Western has a new building going up every second month, with all the heavy cement trucks...

That purple childish sign at across from the Brescia entrance is an embarrassment. The elegant carved signage of old replaced by some pos.

Things are bad at UWO and getting worse.

[ssiguy]

What is the "official" name as it stands today? UWO or just Western?

Personally I prefer UWO as Western could be anywhere.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^outstanding post. Hear, hear!

Yeah, I laughed at the "vibrations" bs spun by the VP operations. What a crock. We have heavy trucks passing through all the time, and these rattle the buildings more than a light rail system. Europe has light rail right next to Gothic cathedrals from the 1100's...I have seen it firsthand. And Western has a new building going up every second month, with all the heavy cement trucks...

That purple childish sign at across from the Brescia entrance is an embarrassment. The elegant carved signage of old replaced by some pos.

Things are bad at UWO and getting worse.

Thanks for the kudos. I am surprised that UWO's own Faculty of Engineering didn't properly advise the administration on how little environmental impact a LRT line will have on the campus.

As to 'light rail next to Gothic cathedrals', consider also the fact that many university campuses in Europe have LRT lines running through them, or next to them. Public transit stations on university campuses make eminent sense as they help make rapid transit much more efficient and useful.

I have a feeling that the administration at UWO may be feeling a bit irrelevant right now and are protesting the LRT line as a way to remind Londoners of how important they are and their position in the community.

They should be focussing more on the need their students have for easily accessible and effective public transit, and less on the idea that their ivory tower sensibilities are being offended.

UWO have very little power in this matter anyway, as they are under direct supervision of the Ministry of Education and the Government of Ontario generally. The Ontario government are simply not going to let UWO get in the way of a $880 million capital funding project, since they are the ones backing it, along with the federal government.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by Wharn

I was thinking about this on the drive home from work today, actually. Why would the University ever be opposed to the Sarnia-Huron link when the likely result of such a link would be a shift in traffic to the desolate southern tip of the campus (aka, "Mordor") and away from where all the students are? Isn't this a step in the right direction for "safety"? I think it would be fantastic if the University Bridge were closed to everything except transit vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians. It's far too narrow given the amount of traffic that goes over it now.

I think people in high places just don't want [what basically amounts to] an arterial road run through their pleasant, quiet existence on The Parkway, hence the roundabout opposition to the whole transit idea.

The city of London owns the right of way from Western Rd., east along Philip Aziz Drive, across the Thames river to Huron St. There is an ongoing EA to try and fix the fubar that Western Road and Sarnia intersection has become, and it's clearly demarcated that this is owned by the city of London.

It would seem to make sense that having the roads link. It would substantially help relieve Western Road as a lot of drivers either have to go up to Windemere or even Fanshawe, or South to Oxford if they want to go east-west without having to go through campus. With no reason for cut though traffic then Western could be justified making their campus car free or whatever agenda they're looking to accomplish.

Of course people from the Parkway and surrounding areas wouldn't like having a connection, but The city of London being able to wrap themselves in doing it for Public Safety and for thr good of public transit would be able to finally accomplish this much-needed project. It's a necessary thing that must be done similar to the Horton Street Extension, NIMBYS be damned. Could you imagine how bad traffic along Wharncliffe or York would be had the Horton extension never been done? It would help Western Rd. And all east-west traffic in the north end a great deal.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by Rosso Corsa

And what constructive action have you taken besides complain anonymously on a forum? Express your concern at any town hall meetings? Talked with anyone from City Hall? I agree that these claims are BS, but as an alumni, I want you to know that ignorant generalizations like this about well regarded educational institutions don't add value to the conversation and certainly don't bode well for your competence.

For the record, I'm not talking about any alumi/alumnus, I'm talking about the brainless morons who are running UWO or 'Western' now. It's not really an ignorant generalization, more of a very possible true assumption. Especially when other people on here are agreeing with me.

HillStreetBlues is right, I don't understand how they can just pass up an opportunity like this that would do great for them, and then make up some useless points to why they disagree. If it costs money, oh well. It's not like they don't have the money not to do it.

[Rosso Corsa]

Rebranding the university was the right thing to do, and here's why.

Think of university in general... it's role in society has evolved since the name "University of Western Ontario" was chosen. University is no longer the distinguished beast of your yesteryears which appealed to scholars and intellectuals. Everyone and their half brother now goes to a post-secondary institution. Bachelor's degrees have become the norm. The target demographic for university is not only the millennial generation, but the future generations that follow.

When you hear millenials what do you think - technology, information 24/7, etc. To appeal to this generation in any capacity things need to be fresh, fluid, and simplistic. The tower logo has a stodgy, institutional feel to it, and when paired with the name "University of Western Ontario", you get the idea.

The new logo is versatile, yet still recognizable. It works better in print, media, and signage when compared to the old logo too. You can fight it all you want, but it's a step in the right direction. Besides, the legal name is still UWO which is what shows up on your degree - and that's what matters!

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Things are bad at UWO and getting worse.

I know faculty hate it when people say this, but have you seen the latest QS rankings? Just to put things into perspective, we were at something like #150 when I started in 2009.

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

The city of London owns the right of way from Western Rd., east along Philip Aziz Drive, across the Thames river to Huron St. There is an ongoing EA to try and fix the fubar that Western Road and Sarnia intersection has become, and it's clearly demarcated that this is owned by the city of London.

It would seem to make sense that having the roads link. It would substantially help relieve Western Road as a lot of drivers either have to go up to Windemere or even Fanshawe, or South to Oxford if they want to go east-west without having to go through campus. With no reason for cut though traffic then Western could be justified making their campus car free or whatever agenda they're looking to accomplish.

Are they finally planning to fix that mess at Sarnia and Western? Thank God, I always thought that intersection was completely screwed up.

As it stands right now, Windermere is completely useless as a cross-street. Its sole purpose in life is to act as a quick shortcut from Adelaide to Richmond (and to act as a point of access for Doon Drive). And it's not like we can even make anything of it. There are just too many breaks, and while the one at Gainsborough may be relatively easy to bridge, the one at Kilally doesn't look as simple since the road would essentially be running on top of a floodplain. Sarnia-Huron, on the other hand, shows a lot of promise. Certainly beats the current "Fanshawe Park, Oxford or bust" layout.

Originally Posted by Rosso Corsa

When you hear millenials what do you think - technology, information 24/7, etc. To appeal to this generation in any capacity things need to be fresh, fluid, and simplistic.

As a millenial, I think a lot of people in my demographic are vapid, shallow, fickle and susceptible to following ridiculous trends without thinking much about them. They are indeed a simplistic bunch. Marketers may love them, but I don't have to.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Rosso Corsa

Rebranding the university was the right thing to do, and here's why.

Think of university in general... it's role in society has evolved since the name "University of Western Ontario" was chosen. University is no longer the distinguished beast of your yesteryears which appealed to scholars and intellectuals. Everyone and their half brother now goes to a post-secondary institution. Bachelor's degrees have become the norm. The target demographic for university is not only the millennial generation, but the future generations that follow.

When you hear millenials what do you think - technology, information 24/7, etc. To appeal to this generation in any capacity things need to be fresh, fluid, and simplistic. The tower logo has a stodgy, institutional feel to it, and when paired with the name "University of Western Ontario", you get the idea.

The new logo is versatile, yet still recognizable. It works better in print, media, and signage when compared to the old logo too. You can fight it all you want, but it's a step in the right direction. Besides, the legal name is still UWO which is what shows up on your degree - and that's what matters!

Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more. the new logo and name are horribly generic, without a shred of dignity. Alumni hate it, faculty hate it, most students hate it, I hate it. Chakma et al. love it because one should never underestimate the power of denial. there could be 2000 studies showing that their strategy is an abysmal failure, but no matter. they are going to stick to their story, no matter what the evidence, no matter what the consequences.

As UWO continues to tumble down the lists...and morale hits new lows. way to fucking go, Chakma et al.

I could tell you stories about international conferences that I have been to...fellow scholars find out you are from UWO and immediately they begin to mock the rebranding.

Why the hell did they install an unbelievably wooden, chemical engineer as President? Why?

[GreatTallNorth2]

LRT is dead.

http://www.am980.ca/2016/04/29/88800/

There’s a big change to London’s plan for rapid transit.

In a statement released this morning, the City of London says a new business case shows the best model is full Bus Rapid Transit, instead of the hybrid model of BRT and Light Rail Transit previously endorsed by City Council.

The new model will cost an estimated $500 million, much less than the $900 million price tag of a combined BRT/LRT plan.

The BRT-only project would see a 24 km system with rapid bus routes running from White Oaks Mall in the south to Masonville Mall in the north. The lines would run from Fanshawe College in the east to Wonderland Rd. North and Oxford St. West in the western section of the city.

The routes would feature dedicated bus lanes and stations as well as a rapid transit tunnel under the CP rail tracks at Richmond St. and Oxford. Officials say that tunnel could also be used by emergency vehicles.

It’s estimated riders would only have to wait between five and 10 minutes between buses.

Officials say they still plan to eventually incorporate Light Rail Transit, but the new business case envisions it rolling out in 25 years.

The updated business plan found that moving to a complete BRT system had the best cost-benefit ratio and the highest return on investment. There were three other options up for consideration: a base BRT model, the City Council-endorsed BRT/LRT hybrid and full LRT.

The full BRT system now being proposed would create an estimated $1.3 billion in transportation, environmental and economic benefits over the next 20 years, according to staff. It would also create 4,400 jobs in direct and indirect employment years, paying out $275 million in wages.

As for when construction would begin on the BRT system, staff say once the necessary Environmental Assesments are complete, construction on the White Oaks Mall to Wonderland corridor could begin in 2018 with service starting in 2022. The Fanshawe College to Masonville Mall stretch could be open in 2026.

Officials say the City of London has already committed $129 million to the rapid transit project and will continue to bring the business case into focus in order to make pitches for financial support from the provincial and federal levels of government.

The new business case will be discussed by London City Council next week.

More information to come.