PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[BrianTH]

Bye historic buildings:



To be replaced with a low-rise student theater.

[AaronPGH]

http://www.vogue.com/13401539/pittsburgh-travel-guide-weekend-trip-itinerary/

ace is doing it's thing, pushing the next wave of press

[gg1]

Originally Posted by Brentsters

Why would you develop a new market district when that exact thing sits a mile away and has existed for a century?

What market district? The strip? That isn't a market district and certainly not under one roof and the loading dock isn't working out either. The Civic Arena would have been world class. Open the roof on a sunny day and an open air market district? Now that is headlines that would even have Europeans taking notice. Anyway, it all means nothing. They tore it down, but it is an example of how Pittsburgh operates. Tear down interesting and good buildings and put up garbage. Sad. Look at those soon to be dated places around East Liberty/Google. I guess that is the direction we have to go because years ago the middle class lived in amazing large homes. Now they live in a cubical. It is what it is I guess, so it isn't just developers fault, it is trickle down economics at its finest.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

http://www.vogue.com/13401539/pittsburgh-travel-guide-weekend-trip-itinerary/

ace is doing it's thing, pushing the next wave of press

Ace is pretty amazing at creating free publicity. That's basically a big glossy ad for the hotel packaged as a feature article.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by gg1

What market district? The strip? That isn't a market district and certainly not under one roof and the loading dock isn't working out either. The Civic Arena would have been world class. Open the roof on a sunny day and an open air market district? Now that is headlines that would even have Europeans taking notice. Anyway, it all means nothing. They tore it down, but it is an example of how Pittsburgh operates. Tear down interesting and good buildings and put up garbage. Sad. Look at those soon to be dated places around East Liberty/Google. I guess that is the direction we have to go because years ago the middle class lived in amazing large homes. Now they live in a cubical. It is what it is I guess, so it isn't just developers fault, it is trickle down economics at its finest.

While the adaptive reuse of the civic arena would have been very interesting and novel, rebuilding the urban fabric which will pave the way for the redevelopment of the huge amount of vacant land in the middle and upper hill will be 100 times better for the city.

[JVC]

Report says oil-train routes contribute to 'environmental racism' in Pennsylvania

http://www.pghcitypaper.com/Blogh/archiv...-to-environmental-racism-in-pennsylvania

"Activist groups released a report this week, finding that a disproportionate number of low-income minority communities live within one-mile evacuation zones, or "blast zones," of oil-train routes."

luxury eastside apartments in east liberty
https://vine.co/v/izOabKgaltp

[dfiler]

Originally Posted by gg1

Well you could open your wallet for them. Believe it or not, the old church has been going under a lot of renovations, which have been very costly. Over a million dollars for the organ renovation and they keep going. They will be adding some nice lighting that will not add to the horrible light pollution that is all over the city. At least the church will do its part unlike 99% of the city with regards to light pollution. I applaud the current minister, who is a super person and cares greatly for the community. He has great concern for what happens to the people that are being priced out for example. I don't agree with him on that, because I believe that area needs to be brought back to something nice as it was designed, not a slum, but I respect his views of course. That is a great church (the people) that really has super poor to somewhat wealthy as members. I like the green space and really don't think we need more concrete. We are just a little city, not a mega city with tons of people.

No need to be so defensive of the church or people involved with the church. It is reasonable to assess how the property in front of the church impacts the community and general public.

I too think there are lessons to be learned from pedestrian friendly areas that surround churches in most European cities. While the current rainwater-mitigation/green-area is nice and well maintained, it is possible to do even better. Currently it doesn't invite people to interface with the church and it doesn't welcome people to spend time surrounding the church. When the neighborhood has truly rebounded, which is likely to be soon, loitering will be considered a good rather than bad thing. That might really be what drove the current design, it wasn't desirable to invite people to sit, eat, socialize and relax on the church property.

But again, it isn't horrible. If anything, there are plenty of other urban design issues in the neighborhood that deserve more attention.

[gg1]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

While the adaptive reuse of the civic arena would have been very interesting and novel, rebuilding the urban fabric which will pave the way for the redevelopment of the huge amount of vacant land in the middle and upper hill will be 100 times better for the city.

Will never happen. Too steep and then there is the "Hill District" which is really horrible. Just not geographically a fit. Good luck with the dream, but it will never happen. The Civic Arena was the key to success. Something to actually go see. Now we will have new garbage that will fail. I have been in real estate for over 20 years. Trust me, just throw the towel in on that area.

[Kenchiku desu]

I'm from California, not Pittsburgh -- but aren't hills one of your city's natural gifts? I'm puzzled why you say a certain area is "too steep" for redevelopment.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by gg1

Will never happen. Too steep and then there is the "Hill District" which is really horrible. Just not geographically a fit. Good luck with the dream, but it will never happen. The Civic Arena was the key to success. Something to actually go see. Now we will have new garbage that will fail. I have been in real estate for over 20 years. Trust me, just throw the towel in on that area.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, Austinlee has also been in real estate for, and I quote, "over 20 years".

Also, if new construction is going in on sites like this and this, then I don't think this is that big of a challenge. Heck, you can even see the shiny new thing there already!

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Kenchiku desu

I'm from California, not Pittsburgh -- but aren't hills one of your city's natural gifts? I'm puzzled why you say a certain area is "too steep" for redevelopment.

He just comes on discussion boards to spew negativity. You only need to look around here to know that the hills haven't stopped us from building here.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by gg1

Will never happen. Too steep and then there is the "Hill District" which is really horrible. Just not geographically a fit. Good luck with the dream, but it will never happen. The Civic Arena was the key to success. Something to actually go see. Now we will have new garbage that will fail. I have been in real estate for over 20 years. Trust me, just throw the towel in on that area.

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Unless I'm very much mistaken, Austinlee has also been in real estate for, and I quote, "over 20 years".

Also, if new construction is going in on sites like this and this, then I don't think this is that big of a challenge. Heck, you can even see the shiny new thing there already!

Yes, 11 years now actually thanks for the mention.

The Hill already has had about 10-15 sizeable infill projects in the last few years. The $500 million B.I.G. proposal will really anchor the lower Hill. After that, development will creep up the hill. I'm pretty certain of it. Uptown is seeing a lot of dollars invested too. It will no doubt take 20+ years to really fill out.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by gg1

Will never happen. Too steep and then there is the "Hill District" which is really horrible. Just not geographically a fit. Good luck with the dream, but it will never happen. The Civic Arena was the key to success. Something to actually go see. Now we will have new garbage that will fail. I have been in real estate for over 20 years. Trust me, just throw the towel in on that area.

It sounds like you have either never been to the Hill District or are mentally incapacitated or both.

Since within the past two days, you've also claimed that the East Liberty area is still filled with crime and that the Civic Arena would have been a great market district, I'm going to go with the mentally incapacitated description... no, actually both.

The Hill is approximately the size of the entire South Side Flats -- it's a huge neighborhood. And for a "hill" neighborhood in Pittsburgh, it's actually relatively flat -- it's persistent grid pattern of the streets is direct evidence of that FACT. What you are strongly claiming will never happen already is.

If the Hill is "just not geographically a fit", then the majority of Pittsburgh is also just not geographically a fit.

A statement like that proves to us that your skull is filled with nothing but dried feces and IC Light.

So even though you say we should, let me just speak for all of us on this forum when I say that we are NOT going to trust your over 20 years in "real estate".

[mhays]

The arena area seems like a pretty clear "edge of Downtown" growth area as infill intensifies. Very walkable to the core. (Chalk me up for 23 years in commercial real estate in another hilly city.)

[BrianTH]

The preparation of the Lower Hill site is continuing, and the first apartments are supposed to start construction this year, so we may find out relatively soon.

Edit: If you haven't seen them before, these presentations from last fall are pretty interesting:

http://www.civicarenaredevelopment.com/files/150928_PITT_PresentationWorkshop_low.pdf

http://www.civicarenaredevelopment.com/admin/uploads/151019_big_pen_workshop-ii_presentation.pdf

[Gilamonster]

I was a little worried about the Hill District site at first, fearing the Penguins would succumb to the demands of the community groups and include a lot of public subsidized, generic housing and even more concerned after the announcement of the suburban style 4 or 5 story "World Headquarters" for USX. However, now that BIG has been signed as the developer for a comprehensive lower hill district master plan, I have a lot of confidence in this turning out very well. If anybody on here doesn't know their work please visit their site and check it out.

[JVC]

Originally Posted by gg1

Will never happen. Too steep and then there is the "Hill District" which is really horrible. Just not geographically a fit. Good luck with the dream, but it will never happen. The Civic Arena was the key to success. Something to actually go see. Now we will have new garbage that will fail. I have been in real estate for over 20 years. Trust me, just throw the towel in on that area.

tearing down the civic arena was the greatest pittsburgh urban planning mistake of all time

[JVC]

Originally Posted by dfiler

No need to be so defensive of the church or people involved with the church. It is reasonable to assess how the property in front of the church impacts the community and general public.

I too think there are lessons to be learned from pedestrian friendly areas that surround churches in most European cities. While the current rainwater-mitigation/green-area is nice and well maintained, it is possible to do even better. Currently it doesn't invite people to interface with the church and it doesn't welcome people to spend time surrounding the church. When the neighborhood has truly rebounded, which is likely to be soon, loitering will be considered a good rather than bad thing. That might really be what drove the current design, it wasn't desirable to invite people to sit, eat, socialize and relax on the church property.

what makes the current configuration even more maddening is the fact that in 2004 the church and ELDI commissioned two architects to create a community plan for east liberty. both architects recommended the same plan - create a european-inspired plaza in front of the cathedral

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/bus...ce-of-a-town-square/stories/200408240197

the church decided to ignore the good advice they paid for and instead follow the currently fashionable green/bioswale/stormwater trend

the only people who like the current design are either members of the church or employees of ELDI

[JVC]

interesting article from curbed.com

How Driverless Cars Can Reshape Our Cities

http://www.curbed.com/2016/2/25/11114222/how-driverless-cars-can-reshape-our-cities

[ks2006]

Originally Posted by gg1

What market district? The strip? That isn't a market district and certainly not under one roof and the loading dock isn't working out either. The Civic Arena would have been world class. Open the roof on a sunny day and an open air market district? Now that is headlines that would even have Europeans taking notice. Anyway, it all means nothing. They tore it down, but it is an example of how Pittsburgh operates. Tear down interesting and good buildings and put up garbage. Sad. Look at those soon to be dated places around East Liberty/Google. I guess that is the direction we have to go because years ago the middle class lived in amazing large homes. Now they live in a cubical. It is what it is I guess, so it isn't just developers fault, it is trickle down economics at its finest.

I think you WAY overestimate the excitement level generated by market districts, and open air markets. It would have very little financial gain for the city, if any at all. Meanwhile you'd have an expensive old , outdated building, sitting there surrounded by parking lots for decades longer.

There will definitely be development in the civic arena site, and it will definitely be better for the city as a whole than a market. You can build a market anywhere. But you cannot expand downtown Pittsburgh anywhere but there.