PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by 1487

I want to know why they havent launched a hi rise in Philly yet. It's pretty ridiculous that they only want to do these midrise or townhouse projects here but they are building hi rises in North Jersey and Manhattan. I recall reading a quote in which they said the numbers don't work in Philly- and yet a company from out of town is trying to build a 50 story complex on Rittenhouse. Apparently they think the numbers work. As do the developers of 500 Walnut.

When it comes to luxury in philly, i think most people would prefer a fancy townhome over a fancy condo. We dont have a true apartment or condo culture, so when they decide to do condos, they are careful not to go too far in. There's market for condos in highrises, but i dont think people are convinced of it as much as they are near NYC. in philly, there are so many nicely priced townhomes, it actually seems a bit silly to spend so much for a condo in a highrise unless its incredibly fancy. so i think that in philly, its weird to buy a condo when you can get a townhome. Near NYC, there are no townhomes and the ones that are there are mega millions so its not even an option of townhome vs highrise condo, making it just the "norm" to get a condo.

[Philly-Drew]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

When it comes to luxury in philly, i think most people would prefer a fancy townhome over a fancy condo. We dont have a true apartment or condo culture, so when they decide to do condos, they are careful not to go too far in. There's market for condos in highrises, but i dont think people are convinced of it as much as they are near NYC. in philly, there are so many nicely priced townhomes, it actually seems a bit silly to spend so much for a condo in a highrise unless its incredibly fancy. so i think that in philly, its weird to buy a condo when you can get a townhome. Near NYC, there are no townhomes and the ones that are there are mega millions so its not even an option of townhome vs highrise condo, making it just the "norm" to get a condo.

I don't agree with much of what you said there. True that we have much less condos than NY, and that NY has less "affordable" townhouses, other than that, I have to disagree. There are many people in Philadelphia that would prefer to live in high rise condos. Nothing weird about that at all.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by summersm343

They don't even have to venture outside of "traditional" Center City, as there are still develop-able sites in Center City.

It seems to me that:

A. They are afraid to venture outside of traditional Center City or close proximity to it.
B. They are afraid to go for a highrise development in Center City.

I think the real reason is that profits in Philadelphia (you know, "NYC costs, Baltimore rents") are lower.

But I think it's disingenous to say that they're "afraid to venture outside of traditional Center City or close proximity to it." Toll Bros. first city venture was Naval Square in 2009. Yes, it's a gated community, but 24th and Greys Ferry isn't a core part of Center City. And in 2009? That area wasn't completely gentrified at that time. It was a pretty ballsy move, considering the type of company Toll Bros. is.

I personally think that if they were going to do a high rise, it would have been at 1911 Walnut. Then again, when you consider the money they sunk at Naval Square back in 2009, I don't think one can definitively say that Toll will only build on the best blocks in the city. Not to say that they are going to be a pioneer either.

[Larry King]

Who cares what toll thinks, very large boring corporation, only does vanilla deals

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

I don't agree with much of what you said there. True that we have much less condos than NY, and that NY has less "affordable" townhouses, other than that, I have to disagree. There are many people in Philadelphia that would prefer to live in high rise condos. Nothing weird about that at all.

I agree. Perhaps even a majority of couples I know prefer condos to townhouses. Townhouses make sense with families. Otherwise, plenty of people enjoy the amenities of condo living. And views (some views obviously better than others).

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by McBane

I think the real reason is that profits in Philadelphia (you know, "NYC costs, Baltimore rents") are lower.

But I think it's disingenous to say that they're "afraid to venture outside of traditional Center City or close proximity to it." Toll Bros. first city venture was Naval Square in 2009. Yes, it's a gated community, but 24th and Greys Ferry isn't a core part of Center City. And in 2009? That area wasn't completely gentrified at that time. It was a pretty ballsy move, considering the type of company Toll Bros. is.

I personally think that if they were going to do a high rise, it would have been at 1911 Walnut. Then again, when you consider the money they sunk at Naval Square back in 2009, I don't think one can definitively say that Toll will only build on the best blocks in the city. Not to say that they are going to be a pioneer either.

Not exactly. If you remember the chain of events that led up to them kickstarting Naval Square they filed for demolition permits after the main building caught on fire. They were just going to continue to squat on it. The city denied their application for the permit and took them to court to repair the building, as it was protected and historic. Thus, that kicked off the whole thing.

It just feels like they have to be nudged at every step. I don't think they give the local market the credit it deserves...as every time they do something it feels like they do it bregrudgingly, then when it gets going, they're like, "oh, that was great".

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Who cares what toll thinks, very large boring corporation, only does vanilla deals

I don't care. But I do care if they can make a block long parking lot go away.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

When it comes to luxury in philly, i think most people would prefer a fancy townhome over a fancy condo. We dont have a true apartment or condo culture, so when they decide to do condos, they are careful not to go too far in. There's market for condos in highrises, but i dont think people are convinced of it as much as they are near NYC. in philly, there are so many nicely priced townhomes, it actually seems a bit silly to spend so much for a condo in a highrise unless its incredibly fancy. so i think that in philly, its weird to buy a condo when you can get a townhome. Near NYC, there are no townhomes and the ones that are there are mega millions so its not even an option of townhome vs highrise condo, making it just the "norm" to get a condo.

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

I don't agree with much of what you said there. True that we have much less condos than NY, and that NY has less "affordable" townhouses, other than that, I have to disagree. There are many people in Philadelphia that would prefer to live in high rise condos. Nothing weird about that at all.

I agree with Philly Drew. A lot of Empty Nester/Baby Boomers (including members of my family), nearing or in retirement, who may also be snow-birds, want condos. No concern about upkeep when they spend 4 months during the winter in warmer climates. No concern about flights and flights of stairs with their bad hips/knees/joints. Condos are typically more open, smaller, and much easier to clean/maintain - which are all things this large demographic covets.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I agree with Philly Drew. A lot of Empty Nester/Baby Boomers (including members of my family), nearing or in retirement, who may also be snow-birds, want condos. No concern about upkeep when they spend 4 months during the winter in warmer climates. No concern about flights and flights of stairs with their bad hips/knees/joints. Condos are typically more open, smaller, and much easier to clean/maintain - which are all things this large demographic covets.

P.Diddy's song came to mind..."Swimmin in women wit they own condominiums"

Seriously, the hardest part about giving up a traditional home say on the mainline vs. moving into a luxury condo in the City is space. A 1.5 million dollar home in the burbs gets you over 4500 sq. ft. where as a lux condo of the same price gets you only 1500 sq. ft. So, having to throw or sell stuff so that what you want to keep fits in the condo. And, no more fancy soiree at the McMansion with 30 other people...LOL.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

P.Diddy's song came to mind..."Swimmin in women wit they own condominiums"

It's all about the Benjamins.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Who cares what toll thinks, very large boring corporation, only does vanilla deals

Follow that line of thought a bit further. Think of the information we can extract: Tolls Brothers helps us determine what a "vanilla" deal in this city is.

Remember, vanilla deals are the easiest to execute, so they need to be the most common type. Toll Bros. is looking at building was is essentially a plex on the Society Hill Playhouse site. That tells us volumes about how relatively easy it is to build small- to medium-size multifamily housing here ... a luxury we enjoy that most places in the country don't.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Inga discusses the expansion of the Schuylkill River trail project:
http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/columnists/inga_saffron&id=370143821

[Chubbs Peterson]

Anyone see this yet?

http://www.wrtdesign.com/projects/detail/broad-and-washington-highrise-condominiums/254

Is this old?

[jsbrook]

Happy Rooster building upper floors being renovated and revamped into apartments.

http://hiddencityphila.org/2016/02/the-happy-roosters-coop-gets-a-redo/

More and more density. Great!

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by Chubbs Peterson

Anyone see this yet?

http://www.wrtdesign.com/projects/detail/broad-and-washington-highrise-condominiums/254

Is this old?

not sure I had also heard rumors about Toll doing this lot, the massing seems far better than Barts plan across the street I also like how they incorporate the shed on Carpenter though would rather see some restaurants or something as that space would be interesting there look like parking tough so I guess not totally fantastic use

[blart]

Saturday, 2-27. Frankford & Belgrade-

[Jawnadelphia]

Maybe the ground floor additions for 1835 Market is going to begin soon? (summers posted a rendering somewhere). I noticed recently the statue with the naked family was removed out front....

[IMG]Untitled

[summersm343]

Philadelphia's Schuylkill trail takes another big step

Any day now, the Schuylkill River Development Corp. will start formal construction on the fourth installment of the now wildly popular waterfront trail. Called Bartram's Mile, the $6 million addition is the first segment to make the leap across the river and extend the recreation path into the neighborhoods of Southwest Philadelphia. This time, it will be lushly landscaped, with groves of trees, gentle hills, and grassy meadows.

With the opening of Bartram's Mile expected in late fall, the dream of a continuous waterfront path stretching from the city's northwest corner to its southern tip is starting to look like a reality. Though there is still years of work ahead, the progress over the last decade suggests a steady, incremental approach is an effective way to reclaim our once-industrialized waterfronts for the public's enjoyment.

The challenge will be to find a way to suture the separate parts of the trail. In addition to the original Center City segment (which includes the boardwalk extension to South Street), the SRDC has completed a crescent-shaped greenway around the edge of the Gray's Ferry peninsula.

To connect the two sides of the Schuylkill, the SRDC is gearing up to construct a $13 million trail bridge between Bartram's Mile and Gray's Ferry. Though that span should be finished by the middle of 2018, the SRDC still has to close a gap on the east side, between South and Gray's Ferry. The stretch from South to Christian is scheduled to start construction this year, but the remaining portion is still up in the air.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/living/2016...nother_big_step.html#qujWJ26MF62QqYhF.99

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Chubbs Peterson

Anyone see this yet?

http://www.wrtdesign.com/projects/detail/broad-and-washington-highrise-condominiums/254

Is this old?

I haven't seen this before.

(Is wondering if he has a contact at WRT)

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

not sure I had also heard rumors about Toll doing this lot, the massing seems far better than Barts plan across the street I also like how they incorporate the shed on Carpenter though would rather see some restaurants or something as that space would be interesting there look like parking tough so I guess not totally fantastic use

Toll assures me they have absolutely nothing to do with this property.

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Maybe the ground floor additions for 1835 Market is going to begin soon? (summers posted a rendering somewhere). I noticed recently the statue with the naked family was removed out front....

[IMG]Untitled

"Naked family"

I've always liked that hunk of bronze. I wonder where it'll wind up?

[summersm343]

Dalian on the Park - 22nd and Pennsylvania Ave - 10 floors
Update from Building Philly



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