Winnipeg | Downtown | True North Square | U/C

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

I've never bothered to visit their patio but with that endorsement I'll check it out this summer.

BTW now that we know Richardson's involvement in TNS, does it have any impact on their plans to build a research/product development/whatever it was facility at Lombard Place?

Different companies.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Dividing the hotel and the condo allows them to proceed with the hotel in case the other doesn't sell.

As long as they build the podium fully (so as not to leave a vacant lot at St. Mary and Carlton) I can live with it if that condo building either never goes up or doesn't go up for a long time.

I take it you don't like the look of the hotel? I think it's pretty nice... it will be the only sleek, mostly glass hotel tower in town. It'll be a nice addition to the skyline.

[cheswick]

Any time frame for the hotel? I'm guessing probably not since Gaglardi said Chipman only approached him a few months ago.

[eman]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ The Sutton Place condo won't have 2nd floor suites overlooking a backlane by the looks of things... the podium guarantees condos will be at least a few floors above all that. And with the lowrise buildings on Edmonton chances are nobody will be staring at a brick wall from their fancy condo unit.

The podium looks like two floors to me,, so condos start on the 3rd floor and there is a backlane.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

As long as they build the podium fully (so as not to leave a vacant lot at St. Mary and Carlton) I can live with it if that condo building either never goes up or doesn't go up for a long time.

I take it you don't like the look of the hotel? I think it's pretty nice... it will be the only sleek, mostly glass hotel tower in town. It'll be a nice addition to the skyline.

no, its fine, I was just wondering.

My bigger concern is the second office tower....the whole things falls apart without it and its not as simple as the ALT glasshouse thing...there is very little market for class A office space....to build a 25+ storey office building is very optimistic....they have only 50% filled a 17 storey one after all this time....what are the odds of filling that and half of the next building any time soon?

[Flatland Metropolis]

These renders just got a whole lot more confusing. I have no idea what this thing is going to look like.

[esquire]

^ There must be something up their sleeve re: tower 2?

And from the sounds of it, tower 2 will include a substantial condo component anyway (I can't figure exactly how much of it will be condo, and it's impossible to tell from the rendering), so if anything is going to go unbuilt I'd say it's likely the Sutton Place Residences which isn't really even integral to the project anyway. At least not the same way that tower 2 is.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by trueviking

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My bigger concern is the second office tower....the whole things falls apart without it and its not as simple as the ALT glasshouse thing...there is very little market for class A office space....to build a 25+ storey office building is very optimistic....they have only 50% filled a 17 storey one after all this time....what are the odds of filling that and half of the next building any time soon?

My interpretation of this diagram is that the 2nd tower is mostly residential. Not that this alleviates much of your concern given the number of condos available right now, but it's slightly easier to sell/lease residential in this city than Class A office space.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by trueviking

no, its fine, I was just wondering.

My bigger concern is the second office tower....the whole things falls apart without it and its not as simple as the ALT glasshouse thing...there is very little market for class A office space....to build a 25+ storey office building is very optimistic....they have only 50% filled a 17 storey one after all this time....what are the odds of filling that and half of the next building any time soon?

I'm pretty sure tower two is mostly residential. Tower 1, which is 50% sold, is the an office only tower. The other office space is 1 or 2 floors in tower 2. It's all some form of residential. Maybe it's apartments?

[Flatland Metropolis]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'd hope that the Sutton Place condo would be deferred until later as it's less critical to the whole piece. If that one were never built it wouldn't matter as much... by contrast, the Graham building is integral.



Yeah, so like Winnipeg Square... parking first, with building to come later. Unlike Winnipeg Square, hopefully it will actually come one day.

For me I completely differ. I really think the condos are important to this project. It really helps to inject what downtown really needs which is more permanent residents who will help build the downtown community. Prior to this the project was a little underwhelming to me really. There is a lot of flash which will be nice and the infill is excellent. But I really think the resident factor is important.

[eman]

Looks like the skywalk goes through City Place,, to funnel people past the Shark Club,, instead of straight from the Arena.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Flatland Metropolis

For me I completely differ. I really think the condos are important to this project. It really helps to inject what downtown really needs which is more permanent residents who will help build the downtown community. Prior to this the project was a little underwhelming to me really. There is a lot of flash which will be nice and the infill is excellent. But I really think the resident factor is important.

I agree that residential is important, but tower 2 is the main ingredient in that regard... it frames the square and it's quite large. The Sutton Place condo tower appears to be a bit of an afterthought down there on St. Mary Ave. I mean, it would be great if it were built right away, but it would not surprise me if it took a few years before that happened, and that would be OK.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by eman

Looks like the skywalk goes through City Place,, to funnel people past the Shark Club,, instead of straight from the Arena.

It would almost be an extension of the Graham Ave skywalk, which runs on the second floor of all the south side buildings. And yes, would conveniently funnel right past Shark Club.

I don't think it would be possible to connect into MTS centre and probably less functional than connecting into City Place.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by esquire

I take it you don't like the look of the hotel? I think it's pretty nice... it will be the only sleek, mostly glass hotel tower in town. It'll be a nice addition to the skyline.

I honestly don't think the hotel has even been designed yet. They only became part of the project 4 months ago. I know there is no local architect involved yet and they have never built a hi-rise hotel. I would think that the rendering is only a conceptual image.

[bomberjet]

Updated summary after today's events.
Source is CBC article. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/true-north-square-announcement-1.3460488

Tower 1 - Scotiabank Tower

17 storey, 365k square foot class A office tower.
TDS and Scotiabank as tenants.

Tower 2

24 storey residential tower, with retail and office at podium level.

Tower 3

27 storey, 275 room Sutton Place hotel

Tower 4

17 storey condo tower, 130 units

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

I honestly don't think the hotel has even been designed yet. They only became part of the project 4 months ago. I know there is no local architect involved yet and they have never built a hi-rise hotel. I would think that the rendering is only a conceptual image.

Fair enough. The concept is good, though...one, possibly two towers sitting on a podium. It'll be quite an improvement for that block.

[O'Doyle Rules]

Is Scotiabank simply moving some of its offices from Portage and Main to TNS? CJOB is reporting that they're moving their "prairie region head office" to TNS, which may mean that Winnipeg is getting jobs that used to be Calgary. This would also explain how Scotia could fill up a bunch of floors at TNS while maintaining a presence on Portage and Main.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Tower 2

24 storey residential tower, with retail and office at podium level.

So it really sounds like this is going to be condo and/or apartments, with just a small smattering of retail and office at the base. This removes the shaky office market as a factor in its viability (is Centrepoint's office space even fully leased?).

[emeraldeyes]

Originally Posted by O'Doyle Rules

Is Scotiabank simply moving some of its offices from Portage and Main to TNS? CJOB is reporting that they're moving their "prairie region head office" to TNS, which may mean that Winnipeg is getting jobs that used to be Calgary. This would also explain how Scotia could fill up a bunch of floors at TNS while maintaining a presence on Portage and Main.

Yes that was mentioned in the presser and in a subsequent tweet from a CJOB reporter. It is more space for Scotiabank, not just moving from P & M.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by O'Doyle Rules

Is Scotiabank simply moving some of its offices from Portage and Main to TNS? CJOB is reporting that they're moving their "prairie region head office" to TNS, which may mean that Winnipeg is getting jobs that used to be Calgary. This would also explain how Scotia could fill up a bunch of floors at TNS while maintaining a presence on Portage and Main.

Didn't some other bank do that a couple of years ago, that is, break out the Manitoba/Sask region from the larger AB/SK/MB region and move that office to Winnipeg? I can't seem to recall which one it was.