noirish Los Angeles

[BifRayRock]

Originally Posted by Martin Pal

While Katinka was definitely at 7351 Beverly Blvd., I don't believe Carolina Pines ever was . . .

Ooops!

Trust but verify? Wishful thinking?

Some of the confusion lies with the inversion of two digits: "7315" and "7351". Less explainable is the confusion between Beverly and Melrose. (They were both paved, had plenty of parking and intersect with La Brea? )


Without an exhaustive study of Carolina Pines, there certainly is a 1942CD listing for it at 7315 Melrose.


The '27CD lists a Carolina Pines Tea Room at 4621 Melrose. The "Carolina" name was associated with 7315 Melrose as early as 1934 where the '34CD lists the address as the Carolina Pines Apts. (see pg 2452). Same in '36. The '56CD includes a listing for Carolina Pines at 7315, "#204." My memory tells me that the Carolina name also fronted 1518 N. La Brea. The '65CD has a listing for Carolina Pines Jr. at 525 Vermont Ave. (This is not meant to be a complete list.)

A photo or two might shed some light on how an apartment building was also a tea room or vice versa. One also wonders whether tea rooms served anything other than tea during the so-called roaring '20s. This may have also added confusion between the various restaurants/clubs at 7315 and 7351.

As for 7351 Beverly, there is no doubt this was called a nightclub (See 1940 permit). Cuckoo-Clock's Plantation cooking, in '28, may or may not have been a club masquerading as a restaurant. (Idle speculation).

[Noircitydame]

Originally Posted by BifRayRock

Ooops!

Trust but verify? Wishful thinking?

Some of the confusion lies with the inversion of two digits: "7315" and "7351". Less explainable is the confusion between Beverly and Melrose. (They were both paved, had plenty of parking and intersect with La Brea? )


Without an exhaustive study of Carolina Pines, there certainly is a 1942CD listing for it at 7315 Melrose.


The '27CD lists a Carolina Pines Tea Room at 4621 Melrose. The "Carolina" name was associated with 7315 Melrose as early as 1934 where the '34CD lists the address as the Carolina Pines Apts. (see pg 2452). Same in '36. The '56CD includes a listing for Carolina Pines at 7315, "#204." My memory tells me that the Carolina name also fronted 1518 N. La Brea. The '65CD has a listing for Carolina Pines Jr. at 525 Vermont Ave. (This is not meant to be a complete list.)

A photo or two might shed some light on how an apartment building was also a tea room or vice versa. One also wonders whether tea rooms served anything other than tea during the so-called roaring '20s. This may have also added confusion between the various restaurants/clubs at 7315 and 7351.

As for 7351 Beverly, there is no doubt this was called a nightclub (See 1940 permit). Cuckoo-Clock's Plantation cooking, in '28, may or may not have been a club masquerading as a restaurant. (Idle speculation).

It's amazing how long Carolina Pines lasted! The founder, Rose P. Satterfield was from North Carolina; she came out to LA from Texas c. 1923 and had the first tea room at Melrose & Normandie by 1924- that must be the 4621 address.

Then she'd moved up the block to 7315 by 1929.
11-1929 lat

In 1930 she brought a lawsuit against another restaurant using the similar name "Catalina Pines." She'd offered to sell its owners, Jacob & Mary Rosenberg, the Carolina Pines name for $150k (!) but they thought it was too steep. Catalina Pines seems to have gone away, anyway.

12-31-1929

Rose died in December 1938 at age 63. 7315 Melrose was also her home address. The Carolina Pines there lived on until 1962.

lat 9-16-62.

[C. King]

Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug

I also spent a week at a Scout Camp, which is also known as Cherry Valley. I believe this was in 1956 approx. I did rowing and some hiking if I recall. I'll see if I have some photos of it. Its a short distance from Emerald Bay Camp.

Cherry Valley is one of the most rugged camps on the island due to its terrain and location. There were few trees and high canyon walls. Its low terrain is a cause for flooding at high tide. It was a hot and dusty place but the water was warm in the summer for swimming.

I remember Cherry Valley, they were a "rival" camp down the coast from EB. EB was a more wide open canyon, and not the steep canyon walls that CV had. Tons of Oaks in camp. Wild boar running thru camp overnight. Got to see a few buffalo from the herd that was taken over there in the silent film era. I may have a 50 yr patch from the camp floating around here someplace.

[HossC]

Originally Posted by Martin Pal

Valley Relics Museum

(1960's ) – View looking east on Ventura Boulevard showing GEMCO at 20801 Ventura Boulevard with ‘Chalk Hill’ in the distance. Just
up that hill were the restaurants Victoria Station and Charlie Brown. Across the street on the right is the Ridgewood Military Academy.

While looking for more pictures of Ventura Boulevard and the Ridgewood Military Academy, I turned to Historic Aerials. My first image is from 1947. For reference, Ventura Boulevard starts in the middle of the left side and rises towards the top-right corner. There only seems to be one development among the trees, so I'm guessing that's the military academy.


Historic Aerials

By 1967, the area looks quite different. The Ventura Freeway runs just north of Ventura Boulevard, and the north/south route of DeSoto Avenue/Serrania Avenue has appeared on the far left. There's still no sign of the Gemco store from Martin Pal's picture, so that must have been built in the late-60s.


Historic Aerials

The last image which still shows large areas of open space is this one from 1980.


Historic Aerials

What caught my eye in the last two images is the dome roughly in the center. After a bit of digging, I found it was the Valley Music Theater. From Wikipedia:

"The Valley Music Theater was built in 1963, as a concrete shell structure, by pouring a concrete 'dome' over a rounded hill of soil, then excavating the soil away. The theater project was backed by entertainers Bob Hope and Art Linkletter, along with Cy Warner."

sanfernandovalleyblog.blogspot.com

Also from Wikipedia:

"By 1966 the theater began to fall on hard times. Over the years, the fare changed from legitimate theater, to rock concerts, to boxing matches, until in 1980 it became a Jehovah's Witness Regional Assembly Hall. By 2004, the church had outgrown the facility and sold the property, which it had bought for $1 million, to the developer JPI for $30 million."

sanfernandovalleyblog.blogspot.com

Finally from Wikipedia:

"JPI Development of Texas demolished the Valley Music Theater building in 2007, and planned to erect 350 condominiums on the 8.3 acre site. In April 2009, JPI defaulted on its loan of $41.8 million and the property was seized by Bank of America. The current owner is John Stanek of The Jefferson Project who has received preliminary approval May 27, 2011 for a mixed-use development consisting of retail shops and a maximum of 340 dwelling units. The project began in 2012, and remained under construction in 2013.

In 2014, the site at 20600 Ventura Blvd. now consists of an apartment complex and live + work lofts called "The Boulevard" than [sic] plans to open in Spring 2014."

Here's the site today (looking south). I was going to describe the new development as unattractive, but after looking at it with GSV, I've changed my mind ... to hideously ugly!


Google Maps

[unihikid]

Originally Posted by C. King

I remember Cherry Valley, they were a "rival" camp down the coast from EB. EB was a more wide open canyon, and not the steep canyon walls that CV had. Tons of Oaks in camp. Wild boar running thru camp overnight. Got to see a few buffalo from the herd that was taken over there in the silent film era. I may have a 50 yr patch from the camp floating around here someplace.

Our home camp was Lake Arrowhead Scout Camps aka Forest Lawn Scout Reservation ("where kids are dying to get in", we had that on the back of our staff shirts). In the summer of 96 we had to camp at CV, the only thing i really remember is that you had to do your swin test in the pacific, the food was excellent, and the wild bore hunt. Our troop would hike the island during spring break, we did that trip for about 5 years straight. Start off at Two Harbors, sleep at EB and then make our way to the airport and Avalon. One thing that i remember about EB was there was/is a grave...don't know of who but i know it freaked me out.

[BifRayRock]

Originally Posted by Noircitydame

Rose died in December 1938 at age 63. 7315 Melrose was also her home address. The Carolina Pines there lived on until 1962.

lat 9-16-62.

Thanks for the follow-up.

Grits, just like . . . the commissary? Does the Pines have a dress code?


Notice the '51 menu lists an address that embraces several street numbers. (No Southern Hospitality prior to '23?)
Ebay


Ebay



Ebay


Hungry near 1046 Cole Avenue?
Ebay



C Pines Jr. on La Brea >> http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=8570

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...1b256ade2c.jpg


Adding to the confusion? http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=20163

[HossC]

I don't need to tell any of you where today's Julius Shulman pictures were taken. This is "Job 5550: Wurdeman & Becket, Pan Pacific Auditorium (Los Angeles, Calif.),1942".
NB. I've cropped the top and bottom off of each of these images because they only showed sky or street. I've also omitted the first image as it was virtually identical to the second.



Have we seen the Pan Pacific Theatre and bowling alley before? I found one mention of the theater, but no pictures. The arrows on the skating sign are pointing to the auditorium.



The section in the middle with the curtains appears to have been a restaurant. I can read "Refreshments" on the left, and I think the main sign says "Top O'the Lane", but I can't find any other references to back this up.



The last shot gives us a better look at the billboard. What a shame that none of these buildings survive.



All from Getty Research Institute

[Martin Pal]

Thanks, HossC, always love images of the Pan-Pacific Auditorium!
___

Originally Posted by BifRayRock

Hungry near 1046 Cole Avenue?
Ebay

That's a new one, I believe!

I know Cole Ave. -- 803 N. Cole Ave. is where the DMV is located.

Originally Posted by BifRayRock

Carolina Pines Jr. on La Brea >> http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=8570

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...1b256ade2c.jpg

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=20163

No one''s ever said why some are labeled "Jr.'s" but probably just because they're more like diners and smaller than the multiple addressed original.

Our experts need to identify all the automobiles in this photo.

[Earl Boebert]

Update on the Sturges House: Did not sell at auction, now a "buy it now" for 2.75 Mil.

Highest price paid at the auction was for "Bedtime Story" by Richard Prince, which to the catalog writer looked like this:

"In 1987, Prince embarked on his seminal Monochromatic Jokes paintings–canvases that consist of corny and shopworn gags printed on vivid, uniformly colored backgrounds. Bedtime Story (1988) is an impressive example from the series. The painting resonates with association and references. The joke itself is a commentary on numerous stereotypical notions–about age, gender, holiday domesticity, and the nuclear family–but more significant is the way Prince has contextualized it. There is a coolness and detachment that removes the words from the realm of humor; they are writ small in a featureless typeface, overwhelmed by the surrounding color. Bedtime Story is a chimera: at once a Hard-Edge abstraction and a piece of Conceptualist art in which the aesthetic image has been replaced by the pure idea. There is no trace of the artist's hand in the painting–the words are both familiar and remote, like a Warhol Campbell's soup can. At once art and artifact, Bedtime Story represents the apex of appropriation art."

And to this philistine looked like a small block of green print on a large olive-drab background. De gustibus and all that jazz.

The objet d'art "Beetle," by Ferdinand Porsche (a Green 1971 VW owned by Jack Larson and James Bridges) went for 10 grand.

Cheers,

Earl

[rick m]

***

Originally Posted by Martin Pal

Hollywood's Bar of Music
7351 Beverly Blvd.



Marjorie Casper and Lt. Michael R. Rusnack
This photo was taken on March 7, 1943.

For additional prints write to Bar of Music- Pictures are $1.25 each, tax and mailing charges included.
Be sure to mention this date: March 7, 1943, and this no.: 15.

Michael attached a note on the back of the picture:


___

I thought sure I'd heard of the Bar of Music before on NLA, but I haven't located anything.

In January, BifRayRock, on post #32931, quoted a 1929 amusement map referencing a place on Beverly Blvd. called The Cuckoo Clock and later in the post writes:

In 1930, the Cuckoo Clock was located at 7351 Beverly Blvd. Later became the "Katinka" and "The Carolina Pines."
In his post, the source of the referenced photo is this post by Chuckaluck:



While Katinka was definitely at 7351 Beverly Blvd., I don't believe Carolina Pines ever was, because E_R's post was inquiring about
the ad with Carolina Pines at 7351 Melrose Ave. (4 short blocks west of La Brea) and Chuckaluck happened to veer off on another tangent
with Katinka at 7351 Beverly Blvd. and then BRR joined the two together. In researching the location, however, I discovered that
Martin Turnbull's Garden of Allah site, now has this incorrect information as well.

Here's an exterior of the club: (I left it large to notice the building next to it--the blade sign and also painted on the side--is the Spanish Kitchen,
it's history and mystery mentioned previously on NLA, but no older photos of it!)

TripAdvisor

It's said to have a circular bar and behind this bar was a stage with two pianos on it, which
looks to be drawn on this napkin from the place. Phone: WEbstr-7811

jericl cat/Flickr

--- I read that Garbo was sent home to feminize her ensemble as she'd arrived in one of her tailored slacks outfits. In GayGirlsRidingClub's Aware News- circa 1970- Remember When pages---

[Martin Pal]

Originally Posted by HossC

What caught my eye in the last two images is the dome roughly in the center. After a bit of digging, I found it was the Valley Music Theater. From Wikipedia:

"The Valley Music Theater was built in 1963, as a concrete shell structure, by pouring a concrete 'dome' over a rounded hill of soil, then excavating the soil away. The theater project was backed by entertainers Bob Hope and Art Linkletter, along with Cy Warner."

sanfernandovalleyblog.blogspot.com

A little more about the Valley Music Theatre:

LAPL

(1963) – View showing the Valley Symphony Orchestra on the site of the future Valley Theater Center at 20600 Ventura Boulevard,
on the south side of Ventura Blvd. between Winnetka and Canoga Aves. in Woodland Hills. Musical star Janet Blair, flanked by two
men, stands on a platform in the center. The photo was used to raise awareness (and money) for a new theater in the round,
which was completed the following year.

Charles Okonski/West San Fernando Valley
1960's aerial.

A couple interesting photos:


Steve Young-Valley Times Collection - Los Angeles Public Library Collection

Woodland Hills Honorary Mayor, Buster Keaton "hitching a ride" in front of the Valley Music Theater. The little girl is Melody Holland,
the daughter of David Holland, who was the Director of Public Relations for the theater. This photo was taken in 1964 before the
opening of "The Sound of Music," the theatre's very first production. Mr. Keaton's last home was in Woodland Hills at 22612 Sylvan Street.

(Someone recalls seeing Shirley Booth do a theatre in the round production of "Come Back Little Sheba" there in the 60's. That would've been something to see.)

L.A.Curbed

Afternoon before a summer concert in 1965.

Let's see if anyone can guess who these boys are!

[Martin Pal]

They liked that building shape out in the valley.

Here's the Valley Ice Skating Center located at 18361 Ventura Boulevard in Tarzana, 1960's.

Encino-Tarzana Patch

Built in 1960.

Encino-Tarzana Patch

[Tourmaline]

Originally Posted by Martin Pal

Afternoon before a summer concert in 1965.

Let's see if anyone can guess who these boys are!

[BarSnake]

Is that Dino, Desi, and Billie?

[Martin Pal]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

So Many Ways to say: You're the winner, Tourmaline!
Two tickets to their next concert at the Valley Music Theater!



More Valley Music Theatre:

I saw this site called Abandoned But Not Forgotten, with some snapshots of
this theater, I guess when it was abandoned. The site has no information
and isn't really clear about anything, but, yet, here are these photos. All
from this link: ABNF

Exteriors:






___

Interiors:

The seating's been removed.



Looks like giant wind chimes hanging from the ceiling.



There are a myriad of colorful umbrellas attached to the overhead.



Glittery gold vine shapes above the overhead; permanent or a production design?



I don't know how you would do some musicals there, perhaps it could be configured
into a proscenium stage set-up, but it's a truly lovely space. Too bad it's gone.

[sdmichael]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

That's a good possibility CBD. I wish the TWA Skyliner was flying a bit higher.



I've been trying to figure out this building (circled below). My first thought was 'Truck Stop'. ( I am from the Midwest you know )


detail

Easy (and probably already answered). The jammed road is Colorado Blvd (former US 66 and State 134) with the up/down roadway as Figueroa St (former US 66 and partly US 99).

[Noircitydame]

Originally Posted by Martin Pal

NCD, Apparently Midge and Michael were not to be. In looking at the source I got the photo from and reading more that
some followers of it wrote, and who believe their findings to be accurate, there's more information about these two:


Michael R. Rusnak was born in 1915, and was from Beaver, Pennsylvania, and enlisted in the Army Air Corps
as a private in December, 1940, at Fort MacArthur, San Pedro, CA.

Judging from the shape of the wings he is wearing, Michael was most likely a bombardier.

Lt. Michael R. Rusnak, only three months and 20 days after this photo was taken, was involved in an accident
and killed on June 27th, 1943, in a B-25, serial number: B-25C 41-12493, along with Horace S. Bowen, Jr.,
a Sgt. from Pennsylvania, Daniel F. Hall, SS (Staff Sgt.?) from Alabama, Gilbert P. Johnson, the pilot, a
2Lt. from Illinois, Mourse A. Nielsen, a 2Lt. from California and Joseph E. Redmen, a Sgt. from UN.
-- (UN - ? - might stand for unknown as another entry of his was blank.)
-- (In the report, Michael Rusnak is listed as a 2nd Lieutenant.)

(Michael Rusnak's brother (or other relative) also from Beaver, PA, John G. Rusnak, was also KIA on January 10, 1945.)

Michael was assigned to the 377th Bombardment Squadron of the 309th Bombardment Group, based at
Columbia Army Air Base in South Carolina and was killed when his ship crashed about 18 miles East
of Sandersville, Georgia while being piloted by 2Lt. Gilbert P. Johnson. The Action Code 'KCRU' indicates that
there were 6 fatalities (K) and that the aircraft crashed (CR). The 'U' most likely stands for 'unknown' or an
'undetermined' reason, as in 'cause unknown'.



Sources:
www.usaafdata.com
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/s...493&Submit4=Go
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/help.htm#ACTION
http://www.ancestry.com
http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/...mbardier.shtml

According to one of these sources that I was looking at that details USAAF accidents or worse in the Untied States,
I was pretty surprised at how many of them there are that have occurred over the years.

That's sad news
Thank you for the information all the same.

ok, so what happened with him and Bette Jo? This was March 1942.
lat 3-9-42

[ethereal_reality]

Originally Posted by Noircitydame

It's amazing how long Carolina Pines lasted! The founder, Rose P. Satterfield was from North Carolina; she came out to LA from Texas c. 1923 and had the first tea room at Melrose & Normandie by 1924- that must be the 4621 address.

In 1930 she brought a lawsuit against another restaurant using the similar name "Catalina Pines." She'd offered to sell its owners, Jacob & Mary Rosenberg, the Carolina Pines name for $150k (!) but they thought it was too steep. Catalina Pines seems to have gone away, anyway.

So was 'Carolina Pines' connected with 'Carolina Lanes' out at the airport? ( notice the same distinct style of lettering)


old file






old file


inside the matchbook


__

[Martin Pal]

Originally Posted by Noircitydame

ok, so what happened with him and Bette Jo? This was March 1942.
lat 3-9-42

Hmmm...
I'm not sure how the ranking system works, but in three instances we have
him as a Corporal (Corp.) in the news clipping of 3-9-42.

In the Bar of Music photograph he's noted as a Lieutenant (Lt.) on 3-7-43.

Three months later on 6-27-43 in the accident report he's listed as a 2nd Lieutenant (2LT).

According to this wikipedia photo of USAAF ranks, though, that would be in reverse order of what they should be, if I'm not missing something.



Also, they don't seem to have a Corp. in the Air Corps?

[ethereal_reality]

Two young ladies posing by the construction site of the Hollywood Freeway. [1952]


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...f39123b220.jpg





and today

gsv





detail



I could be wrong, but I believe this is the same building (with that center area filled in)


gsv

The stairs (from Western down to the freeway/visible in the vintage pic.) are still there as well. (see below)




__