Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Kokkei Mizu]

To the VIA Rail station on 121 St and Yellowhead Trail.

[sdimedru]

Originally Posted by towerguy

Hey in Edmonton with the Rogers Arena and the Stantec tower going up, where's the Greyhound station being moved to ?

Next to the Via station off Yellowhead Trail, not sure on the progress

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by GernB

As I said, Halifax was able to get the Metro Centre built...but then hockey will always get the nod over football in this country, even for minor league or junior teams.

As 'someone123' alluded to, Halifax isn't really a hockey town. Nova Scotia, in general, doesn't mirror Canadian norms when it comes to the sports pecking order. Football and basketball have NEVER taken a back seat to hockey in this part of Canada. A CFL team would easily draw more interest than the hockey team playing out of Metro Centre. Basketball is arguably more culturally important in Nova Scotia than hockey. They support 1 pro basketball team (with another starting play later this year) and 5 university teams. That's a lot for a province with two-thirds the population of Edmonton.

When I attended high school in Halifax, no one ever talked about hockey. It was always about university football/basketball... and Nova Scotia schools, not the NCAA.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The Moncton Stadium is not an embarrassment. You have to keep in mind that it is a university track & field stadium and was not built as a dedicated football stadium. If you view it in that light, it is actually one of the more impressive facilities of it's kind in the country. At 10,000 permanent seats and with a Mondo track surface, it is viewed quite favourably by the Canadian Track & Field Association. It has held the Canadian national track & field championships twice, the IAAF World Junior Track & Field Championships in 2010 (for which the facility was built) as well as the FIFA U20 Women's World Cup in 2014 and the FIFA Women's World Cup in 2015. In addition, the stadium has played host to not one, not two but three regular season CFL games. Attendance was as high as 20,725 for the first CFL game and 13,138 for one of the FIFA games, which, considering that Team Canada did not play in Moncton, compares favourably to attendances at other venues in the country.

No, the Moncton Stadium is not an embarrassment.

It is however definitely not a football stadium, and if Moncton were ever to consider getting into the running for a CFL team, I think a new facility would have to be built.

3) - There is a strong football culture in southeastern NB (and in southern NB in general). There would be a ready built fan base for any team based here.

My predictions:

team #10 will be in Halifax, but probably won't occur for at least another 8-10 years.
teams #11 & 12 will be in Quebec City and someplace in the west ( to allow for regional balance, possibly in Victoria).

If the CFL ever expands to 16 teams, I expect Moncton will be in the mix. This probably won't be until 2060-75 or so, and I will long since be dead, but I fully expect this could be a possibility.

Hence the big question - just how big does the CFL want to be? Is the answer 10 teams, 12 teams or 16 teams? The answer depends on the greed of the team owners. If the team owners don't want to split up the TV revenues pie much more than it is now, then the CFL likely will never get any larger than 12 teams.

Absolutely gotta hand it to you man. Really informative post. and you nailed it on the head the the stadium its not an embarrassment it serves the community really well. I do apologize for the abrasive post It wast meant as a shot to NB at all.

As for CFL expansion I would love to see a 4th team added to Ontario, Specificity London but with a metro of 500K I do question the viability of it compared to adding another team to the GTA once the Argos are settled. Brampton or Mississauga just make more sense and I know people get a good chuckle out of that but really the GTA has a metro of 6 Million people! which is the equivalent population split between of all 4 prairie teams. And lets be honest the Argos would have done better outside of T.O. but maybe london could stand on it's own and Ontario could host 5 CFL teams.

Victoria is a really interesting one. At first glance 80k in the city seems weak, but with a metro of 350K puts in the realm of possibility and with 750K on the island it starts to really make sense if it is marketed right. It also Gives the Lions a rival which really doesn't exist today. I think if they could get a stadium build and really push that it's Vancouver island's team with a great game day experience it could work. What's working against them is if braley claims the island is his territory. It might help him to re brand the Lions as Vancouver's team especially with another team across the water from them.

Quebec city is an obvious one. Great football culture, The population is right, great practice facility. And the Als would be stupid not to want that to happen as this would be one of the great CFL rivalries. Noone in QC is cheering for the als as they aren't branded as Quebec's team and anything they might lose would come back 10 fold with the guaranteed sell outs for the battle of Quebec games.

Halifax is also a given. No need for a explanation. The one interesting thing that i find with Halifax is they would have no natural rival but at the same time their would be so much pride in that team I don't think it would matter. Where when Calgary and Hamilton are playing it's kid of just a game compared to T.O. vs Ham or Edmonton VS Calgary. I think every game would be the Atlantic schooners VS the world. Although you could make a point that a Victoria team would also have a west coast VS east coast stigma.

So if the CFL was really interested in expansion it could look like this

East

-4th Ontario team
-Toronto
-Ottawa
-Hamilton
-Halifax
-Montreal
-Quebec

West
-Victoria
-Vancouver
-Edmonton
-Calgary
-Saskatchewan
-Winnipeg

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Quebec city is an obvious one. Great football culture, The population is right, great practice facility. And the Als would be stupid not to want that to happen as this would be one of the great CFL rivalries. Noone in QC is cheering for the als as they aren't branded as Quebec's team and anything they might lose would come back 10 fold with the guaranteed sell outs for the battle of Quebec games.

It's not a Rider Nation passion but it's not true that no one in Quebec City cheers for the Alouettes. They have fans all over the province and they are the most popular pro team by far in the province - NFL or CFL combined.

[BradFromTO]

Is the CFL really in the position to expand? I know there is a solid audience, but from what I can tell it's ageing, and the new generation isn't really latching on outside the already well off markets.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by BradFromTO

Is the CFL really in the position to expand? I know there is a solid audience, but from what I can tell it's ageing, and the new generation isn't really latching on outside the already well off markets.

The CFL is in a position to expand but the three things they need to expand aren't (in a specific new market). They used to say they needed three things: solid ownership, a stadium and I can't remember the 3rd (core fanbase?)

I keep hearing this aging thing which usually comes from small elements of the soccer crowd who hope to kill off the CFL in the hopes that will raise soccer's profile. It seems that the reason Ottawa and Hamilton have been so successful is because they have reconnected with the youth. That is what Toronto will try to do as well (with their version of the tailgate)

A changing viewership is what every sport is guarded against. They are all up against the watching the game at home in HD experience.

For years the sleepy MLB was criticized for an aging and decreasing popularity but they have the best online presence and audience of any sport. Look at the Jays and see what the crowds are made up of, it certainly isn't an all aging audience.

The CFL is following a new model of engaging younger crowds by having party patios to get people out for the social experience. They may not even watch the game but are contributing to the bottom line.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

I keep hearing this aging thing which usually comes from small elements of the soccer crowd who hope to kill off the CFL in the hopes that will raise soccer's profile. It seems that the reason Ottawa and Hamilton have been so successful is because they have reconnected with the youth. That is what Toronto will try to do as well (with their version of the tailgate)

.

I went to a couple of Ottawa Redblacks games last season and the fan base is definitely not old and grey. I mean, there are some but there are people of all ages there for sure.

I realize that the situation in Toronto is a bit different as the summertime sports scene has much of the space taken up by the Blue Jays and TFC, but another thing I've noticed is that some of the anti-CFL people I knew in my youth have reconnected with the CFL via the Redblacks.

They haven't written off the NFL of course, but they also follow the Redblacks. Whereas back in the day they wouldn't have been caught dead at Rough Riders game because it was the CFL... eeeeeeewwwww.

Some people I know who are Alouettes fans in Montreal are also reformed CFL haters.

Again, I realize it's different in Toronto because of the proximity to Buffalo and the NFL Dream, but still... there is a bit of hope.

Then again, the Argos don't need the entire GTA to get into them like Regina is passionate about the Riders in order to be successful.

[Acajack]

And BTW Hamilton in the late 80s and early 90s was totally part of the alleged CFL-indifferent/CFL-hostile, NFL-obsessed Southern Ontario dead zone, and look what's happened there.

[esquire]

The CFL has to be smart about expanding in a careful way that, to borrow a phrase, grows the game and expands the league's footprint. The most obvious way is to bring in the largest region not currently represented in the league: the Maritimes. That should definitely be the short term (2-5 years) priority.

In the medium term (7-10 years out), the league should focus on building up in regions where teams already exist, but with large cities that don't have easy access to them. Quebec is the obvious locale in that regard, and with the low dollar potentially delaying the NHL's return the opportunity might exist for the CFL to get a foothold. This would bring the league to 11 teams and might max out the talent pipeline under the current player development system.

In the long term (20 years+ out), the goal should be to grow the fanbase in Southern Ontario so as to be able to add one more team in a place like London or K-W, one in the GTA suburbs and one somewhere out west. If the league hits 14 teams someday, I think that would be a practical maximum... I'm not sure that our population and amateur systems could support much more than that.

[Horus]

Looks like BMO Field will continue to be BMO Field.

Bank of Montreal renews their naming sponsorship for another 10 years.

From the SUN
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/22/bmo-extends-stadium-naming-rights-with-mlse

BMO extends stadium-naming rights with MLSE
Bank to remain Toronto FC's kit sponsor through the 2016 season

By Kurtis Larson, Toronto Sun

ORLANDO - It appears the Bank of Montreal wants a piece of Toronto’s newly-renovated Major League Soccer — and CFL — stadium.

That Toronto Sun tweeted Monday morning that BMO has extended its agreement with MLSE to retain stadium naming rights at BMO Field for the next 10 years.

The agreement doesn’t line up with TFC’s jersey-sponsorship rights. though BMO has extended its kit sponsorship of TFC through the 2016 season.

Terms of the agreement weren’t immediately released. Toronto’s previous kit sponsorship deal with BMO brought in around $4 million annually, according to Sports Business Journal.

“Today’s long-term naming rights renewal with BMO is symbolic as construction progresses on BMO Field to provide a world-class stadium experience for Toronto FC and its fans, for the Toronto Argonauts as they move to a classic Canadian outdoor football environment, and for the City of Toronto,” said David Hopkinson, Chief Commercial Officer at MLSE. “BMO is a partner that has been with Toronto FC, and the stadium, since day one and plays an important, supportive role as we look forward to exciting things at BMO Field this season and in the years to come.”

MLSE is in the midst of a $140 million renovation of its soccer team’s stadium in anticipation of the Toronto Argos moving in later this year.

Phase 2 of the renovations — including a canopy roof above three sides of the venue — is expected to improve the fan experience for Toronto FC supporters, too.

[king10]

Ya, Hamilton has really connected with the younger audience. Lots of young people, including myself can be seen at ticats games and even wearing team colours around the city.

I myself regularly go to games with large groups of people in their mid 20's.

[25grapes]

Esquire

I honestly feel that the max-out team number for the CFL is 10-11 teams. I don't believe there is enough market to add an additional team in Ontario. Not that the 12 million population couldn't handle another team but the target market ie. football fans is probably well suited with 2 teams.

Quebec City almost seems like a no-brainer but they would have to find ownership willing to buy a franchise and build a stadium (likely a joint venture with Laval).

I'm not sold on the Maritimes having enough economic backing, even in Halifax to be able to 1. buy a franchise and build a stadium and 2. be able to attain sufficient local advertising revenues which is a crucial part of any team's revenue mix. I think gate sales would be strong but I can't see a stadium being built without tax payers assistance and from what I understand, they are not on board with that.

With these constraints, along with an ailing dollar backed with a current economic downturn, I don't see CFL expansion within the next 5 years.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, I think those are fair comments. Under the current reality, adding Quebec and Halifax might be as good as it gets for at least another 25 years. And that's fine with me... it grows the league by bringing in unrepresented markets, and frankly makes things more interesting from a fan standpoint by decreasing the schedule repetition you often see.

The additional teams beyond 11 would depend on certain pieces falling into place and are by no means assured. Adding teams in the GTA for instance, would depend on the Argos finding traction in their market and leading to an appetite for CFL football in sufficient volume so as to support another team. That's clearly not a sure thing.

[GernB]

Originally Posted by BradFromTO

Is the CFL really in the position to expand? I know there is a solid audience, but from what I can tell it's ageing, and the new generation isn't really latching on outside the already well off markets.

Not really. Oh, there may be some tepid interest in putting a team in Halifax, but that's been a pipedream for the past forty years, and it's no closer to reality now than it was then. All this talk..."put a team here, you'll see, we'd support it"..."just build a stadium, you'll see, we'd support it" conveniently ignores the facts that no one is willing to put up money to do either. It's just wishful thinking to hold that the CFL is expanding anywhere in the foreseeable future.

[Nathan]

One other thing to note about the whole "CFL audience is old and greying" line... It appears that way sometimes because there is a massive proportion of that age group that follows the league (40-50%+), while the younger age groups don't follow in such great numbers. If I remember the polling that's been done, younger ages follow the league more in line with other sports league proportions (other than the NHL).

This forces a bit of a "skew" to the average age, but it's because of a large strength in the older ages rather than a massive weakness in younger ages, though this doesn't mean they shouldn't be looking to improve their drawing power on the 35 and under crowd.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I went to a couple of Ottawa Redblacks games last season and the fan base is definitely not old and grey. I mean, there are some but there are people of all ages there for sure.

I realize that the situation in Toronto is a bit different as the summertime sports scene has much of the space taken up by the Blue Jays and TFC, but another thing I've noticed is that some of the anti-CFL people I knew in my youth have reconnected with the CFL via the Redblacks.

They haven't written off the NFL of course, but they also follow the Redblacks. Whereas back in the day they wouldn't have been caught dead at Rough Riders game because it was the CFL... eeeeeeewwwww.

Some people I know who are Alouettes fans in Montreal are also reformed CFL haters.

Again, I realize it's different in Toronto because of the proximity to Buffalo and the NFL Dream, but still... there is a bit of hope.

Then again, the Argos don't need the entire GTA to get into them like Regina is passionate about the Riders in order to be successful.

I cannot for the life of me understand why people cannot be fans of both leagues. Here in Saskatchewan, the Roughriders are king but everybody I know has a favorite NFL team. Look, if you are a "FOOTBALL" fan you should love the idea that you have "PRO" football from June until Feb.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GernB

Not really. Oh, there may be some tepid interest in putting a team in Halifax, but that's been a pipedream for the past forty years, and it's no closer to reality now than it was then. All this talk..."put a team here, you'll see, we'd support it"..."just build a stadium, you'll see, we'd support it" conveniently ignores the facts that no one is willing to put up money to do either. It's just wishful thinking to hold that the CFL is expanding anywhere in the foreseeable future.

Well, I'd say there is probably a "build it and they will come" side to all of this.

No, there is no burning desire for a CFL team in Halifax (or anywhere in the Maritimes) like there is for the NHL in Quebec City.

But there was no burning desire for the NHL in many US cities that have become successful markets for the NHL.

I think that the sentiment in the Maritimes is that it would be cool to have a pro sports option. The NHL is not realistic and so the CFL is the best shot they have. There is nothing wrong with this.

But the absence of burning desire is what makes it difficult to get a stadium built.

I know it's a chicken-and-egg question but I'd say that any currently non-CFL city in Canada that *would* have a 20,000+ seat stadium would likely have a CFL team by now.

Consider that many places that have sports team X primarily got the team in the first place because there was a suitable venue, and not necessarily because of an innate passion for the sport or the league.

[Horus]

Link to Time-lapse video of South canopy lift at BMO Field
http://bcove.me/bu869zsk

[caltrane74]

Raising the roof