Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by elly63

You know how hypocritical it is when you do this to people, judging by some of the stupidity you have shown in the past with your posts. You really shouldn't do it because it makes you look even more ridiculous.

You guys cant tell me you dont see a difference between the structural integrity of these buildings and how that could affect cost. Am I wrong here? Is pre cast concrete cheaper than aluminum stands? Does the extra weight not require more structural integrity? I feel like you guys are arguing just for the fun of it. Montreal built a 20,000 stadium with all amenities for under 50M even with inflation lets say that's 70M today. Why cant a 25,000 stadium be done in Halifax for under 100M using similar materials? Montreal and Toronto could do it but not halifax I just don't get it. Nobody will offer an explanation of why it cant be done but they will point out that I'm wrong at any given chance

[FrankieFlowerpot]

You guys cant tell me you dont see a difference between the structural integrity of these buildings and how that could affect cost. Am I wrong here? Is pre cast concrete cheaper than aluminum stands? Does the extra weight not require more structural integrity?

In the grand scheme of things in the cost of a stadium, there's not that much difference in the cost between the two.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

In the grand scheme of things in the cost of a stadium, there's not that much difference in the cost between the two.

Depends how you look at it. BMO is a 180M stadium. But that canopy eats up 40M of that cost and the Argos conversion eats up another 20M (phase 2 and 3)

So take that away and you're left with a 120M stadium with 30,000 seats and 2 rows of cooperate boxes in Toronto which has the highest construction costs in all of Canada if i'm not mistaken?

So I have a hard time thinking you cant build a stadium with 5000 less seats and have the cooperate boxes in 1 shot in Halifax for 100M

Basically what you're saying is that THF is the absolute cheapest way you could build a 24,000 seat stadium and BMO is living proof that It's just not true

Think about it this way. MLSE spent 50M on the new 8000 seat west side BMO stands which also houses clubs, cooperate suites and the Argos locker room ect. So really you have 50M to remaining to build the remaining stands 17000 more seats,turf and a scoreboard. Fair enough?

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Depends how you look at it. BMO is a 180M stadium. But that canopy eats up 40M of that cost and the Argos conversion eats up another 20M (phase 2 and 3)

So take that away and you're left with a 120M stadium with 30,000 seats and 2 rows of cooperate boxes in Toronto which has the highest construction costs in all of Canada if i'm not mistaken?

So I have a hard time thinking you cant build a stadium with 5000 less seats and have the cooperate boxes in 1 shot in Halifax for 100M

Basically what you're saying is that THF is the absolute cheapest way you could build a 24,000 seat stadium and BMO is living proof that It's just not true

Think about it this way. MLSE spent 50M on the new 8000 seat west side BMO stands which also houses clubs, cooperate suites and the Argos locker room ect. So really you have 50M to remaining to build the remaining stands 17000 more seats,turf and a scoreboard. Fair enough?

I think you could do "something" like that for close to $100M, but still you need someone / some level of gov't in Halifax / NS/ Feds? to kick in a huge chunk of change.....I don't see it happening without some type of event (ala Commonwealth Games, Universaide, etc.)

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

I think you could do "something" like that for close to $100M, but still you need someone / some level of gov't in Halifax / NS/ Feds? to kick in a huge chunk of change.....I don't see it happening without some type of event (ala Commonwealth Games, Universaide, etc.)

oh forsure 100M is a ton of money. I'm just saying if a Halifax stadium ever gets built It's not gonna be an investors group field let's be honest. So if they can bring down the price tag from 200M to under 100M it looks good to tax payers/future investors

bbva compass stadium. 2.5 year old 22,500 with a canopy and one of the nicest exteriors ive ever seen at a cool price of 95M Why cant a slightly bigger CFL version this be done in halifax minus the canopy endzone seats and fancy facade?

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

oh forsure 100M is a ton of money. I'm just saying if a Halifax stadium ever gets built It's not gonna be an investors group field let's be honest. So if they can bring down the price tag from 200M to under 100M it looks good to tax payers/future investors

bbva compass stadium. 2.5 year old 22,500 with a canopy and one of the nicest exteriors ive ever seen at a cool price of 95M Why cant a slightly bigger CFL version this be done in halifax minus the canopy endzone seats and fancy facade?

It's been my understanding that construction costs are much lower in Houston than they are anywhere in Canada. You couldn't build that without adding on several million, though I agree it should be used as a model for cities like Halifax.

[GernB]

Originally Posted by king10

word is that the gap is there because in the future they plan to expand the pressbox and add an additional row of luxury sky suites

also there is talk that the north end setup is temporary for this season as they were rushed for time in converting it to CFL configuration. 2017 may see something permanent in the north end

Makes sense. A row or two of suites is the first thing I thought of when I saw the gap. Will be interesting to see what's done there and in the north end.

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

It's been my understanding that construction costs are much lower in Houston than they are anywhere in Canada. You couldn't build that without adding on several million, though I agree it should be used as a model for cities like Halifax.

Yeah a lot of labour on that project was getting paid $12-15 hour vs. the trades in Canada at $30 plus

[Dr Awesomesauce]

If there were true demand for CFL football in Halifax they'd already have a team and a stadium. Tell me I'm wrong...

[christopherj]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

If there were true demand for CFL football in Halifax they'd already have a team and a stadium. Tell me I'm wrong...

You're wrong.

What's the most profitable team in the league? Likely Saskatchewan who only made $2.2 million in fiscal 2014/2015. That's not enough to privately finance a stadium that will cost $100 million or so (even if you put $50 million cash down / finance $50 million your interest would still run at least $2.5 million a year putting you into a loss before making payments on the stadium).

That means you need to get government to help cover construction costs... and that just won't happen anytime soon in Halifax.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by christopherj

You're wrong.

What's the most profitable team in the league? Likely Saskatchewan who only made $2.2 million in fiscal 2014/2015. That's not enough to privately finance a stadium that will cost $100 million or so (even if you put $50 million cash down / finance $50 million your interest would still run at least $2.5 million a year putting you into a loss before making payments on the stadium).

That means you need to get government to help cover construction costs... and that just won't happen anytime soon in Halifax.

Yes and no. The riders aren't overwhelmingly profitable because they have no agenda to be profitable they are a non profit city owned team designed at giving back to the community. The seats stay cheap. The rights to merch is wide open, meaning you or I can make riders merch and not be subject to any fines as long as we are registered with the organization and pay a small royalty. The riders end of year "profit" gets put into a reserve, but millions gets pumped into the community and charity organizations every season.

Take the bombers for example. They would profit 5+ Million a season if not for the massive annual 4M payment to IGF. Again a community run/owned team. Don't kid yourself the CFL can be a money making machine under the right circumstances or it can be a self sustaining element that benefits the community and in that case franchise value/profitably becomes irrelevant.

In a sense Halifax could use the Winnipeg model where the schooners would be a publicly owned organization. The city gets a stadium paid for through a loan paid by revenue of the "schooners" and anything left over goes to the various charities affiliated with the team.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Yes and no. The riders aren't overwhelmingly profitable because they have no agenda to be profitable they are a non profit city owned team designed at giving back to the community. The seats stay cheap.

I agree with your overall point that the community owned teams could probably be more aggressive when it comes to maximizing profit... it's kind of nice that they don't put the screws to fans just because they can. However, as for Riders tickets, I find them kind of pricy...who do you think their seats are cheap in relation to? The other community owned teams, Winnipeg and Edmonton, seem to charge more modest prices.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

oh forsure 100M is a ton of money. I'm just saying if a Halifax stadium ever gets built It's not gonna be an investors group field let's be honest. So if they can bring down the price tag from 200M to under 100M it looks good to tax payers/future investors

bbva compass stadium. 2.5 year old 22,500 with a canopy and one of the nicest exteriors ive ever seen at a cool price of 95M Why cant a slightly bigger CFL version this be done in halifax minus the canopy endzone seats and fancy facade?

because we have unions and we don't have mexican labour

[JHikka]

Houston's stadium has been brought up a number of times on this forum and the simple answer is labour costs (See: unions) and a lack of winter in Texas are the main reasons why BBVA was so cost-effective. It's a gorgeous stadium, and one that would fit nicely in most Canadian cities, but it's not being built for sub-$100M in Canada.

[MacLac]

Originally Posted by king10

because we have unions and we don't have mexican labour

Exactly! The cheap Mexican labor would be difficult.... But getting rid of unions should be a priority. Don't kid ourselves....of course the States have unions. Wages are low in places like Texas cuz it is a "work at will" state which brings down wages, ie, $2.80/hrs there I believe. Look what the unions started in AB....6 figure salaries to push a broom in the Mac....I was one back in the day.....

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by esquire

I agree with your overall point that the community owned teams could probably be more aggressive when it comes to maximizing profit... it's kind of nice that they don't put the screws to fans just because they can. However, as for Riders tickets, I find them kind of pricy...who do you think their seats are cheap in relation to? The other community owned teams, Winnipeg and Edmonton, seem to charge more modest prices.

Of course, the Labour Day game here is always a barn-burner. This year though, the last regular season game won't only be the last game of the year, but the last [scheduled] game at Mosaic Stadium 1.0. The Rider administration could easily get away with higher ticket $$$s, . . . . especially for the last regular season game. The last game will be a sell-out guaranteed! (Plus any would-be playoff games.)

[FrankieFlowerpot]

https://twitter.com/BlueJays/status/700821355965472768

[GernB]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Yes and no. The riders aren't overwhelmingly profitable because they have no agenda to be profitable they are a non profit city owned team designed at giving back to the community.

That's something of a misconception, albeit a common one. The City of Regina has nothing whatsoever to do with the ownership of the Riders. The team, like the Eskimos and Blue Bomber are community-owned franchises, in the sense that no one shareholder is allowed to assume a controlling interest in the team, i.e. they are owned by the "community at large". At one time or another, BC, Calgary and Ottawa have also had this sort of ownership.

It's a form of ownership that has served well in western Canada, allowing communities to have teams they would otherwise likely be unable to gain; in addition to the CFL teams named above, the Swift Current Broncos and Lerthbridge Hurricanes of the WHL among others have similar if not identical ownership structures.

[GernB]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

If there were true demand for CFL football in Halifax they'd already have a team and a stadium. Tell me I'm wrong...

No, you're not wrong. While there may - or more likely, may not - be 20,000 people in Halifax who'd buy STs, there has never been the desire (by any level of government) or the ability (by J.I. Albrecht's group in 1984) to get a stadium built, while the Metro Centre was built by local government in 1973. If there was sufficient demand by Haligonians for a CFL team the City and the Province would find a way to fund a stadium.

Albrecht's group couldn't get a $6m, 34,000 seat stadium built in 1984, and the Halifax CWG bid, which included a CFL standard stadium, was abandoned due to concerns over rising costs....so I think it's not unfair to infer that there just isn't sufficient interest there.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

The Rider administration could easily get away with higher ticket $$$s.

this was exactly my point. I should have been more specific esquire my bad