Macy's closing 4 Downtown stores across US

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by Gordo

^That's mostly just because 2012 was practically the peak historical value of the CAD against the USD, which is mentioned in the article. All of the Canadian malls would now be 30%+ lower just from currency changes.

Yup.

2015 is a different story.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/08/-per-square-foot.html

[NorthernDancer]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Yup.

2015 is a different story.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/08/-per-square-foot.html

No, that's only a list of American malls, not North American malls. If you included Canadian malls, Canada would still have a bunch of entries in the top 15.

Yorkdale Mall for example just hit $1 billion in annual sales for the first time a few years ago, and may hit $2 billion is annual sales by 2018. A doubling in sales is far more than enough to counter-act a 30% decline in currency value:

http://www.postcity.com/Post-City-Magazi...-mall-reaches-1-billion-in-retail-sales/

Yorkdale Shopping Centre has surpassed $1 billion in annual sales, or roughly $2.7 million per day, putting it on track to potentially become North America’s top-selling retail centre.

.....

Yorkdale may reach $2 billion in sales by 2018, said Casalanguida.

[10023]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

It's still all very capitalist.

But I see what you're doing; you're equating "suburban" with "lower standards" somehow. But really it's all about marketing to the people who have more money, which isn't necessarily the people in the city center.

I can only speak for Los Angeles because I'm the most familiar with it, but the old upscale department stores that were built in the suburbs were of higher quality than the lower-end stores. When Bullock's decided to build a store on Wilshire Boulevard in the 1920s, the area it was built in was considered out in the sticks, but they invested a lot of money into it, and it actually became their flagship store, not the one downtown; though no longer a department store, it's still an Art Deco masterpiece today with Historic Landmark status (it's now a law library). When Saks Fifth Avenue wanted to open their first west coast store, they chose not San Francisco, not downtown LA, but Beverly Hills, which also was considered "suburban" at the time. The Bullock's stores that opened in Westwood, Pasadena... those were also considered suburban stores, but they were very upscale. The Bullock's store in Pasadena, which is now a Macy's, went through a restoration a few years ago and it looks pretty much now like it used to, an old-school traditional high-end department store (though the merchandise is basically Macy's merchandise).

Obviously LA developed very differently from most cities and not really a relevant example. Suburban areas in the 1920s are also a very different animal from 1990s exurbia.

But yes, I'm equating the latter with "lower standards" (or more precisely, the absence of a public sphere and concern for what lies beyond the limits of one's own property).

[Crawford]

And those mall lists are excluding lots of malls, for some reason.

Highest sales psf urban mall in the U.S. is Time Warner Center. Highest sales psf suburban mall in the U.S. is Bal Harbor Shops.

[NorthernDancer]

Saks Fifth Avenue in downtown Toronto opens today. The Sherway Gardens location will open Feb. 25th. The downtown location is 169,000 square feet. Pictures below courtesy http://www.thestar.com/business/2016/02/16/torontos-saks-fifth-avenue--its-almost-ready.html

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by NorthernDancer

No, that's only a list of American malls, not North American malls. If you included Canadian malls, Canada would still have a bunch of entries in the top 15.

I doubt it given the weakened Canadian economy, the oil slump and much deflated loon vs the strong USD.

In fact, Canada generally doesnt do very well compared to the US as far as stand alone high end designer boutiques. Its like your playing catch up.

[NorthernDancer]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

I doubt it given the weakened Canadian economy, the oil slump and much deflated loon vs the strong USD.

In fact, Canada generally doesnt do very well compared to the US as far as stand alone high end designer boutiques. Its like your playing catch up.

Well, no you're wrong. Someone said that the Canadian dollar declined 30% since 2012 (the original list I posted). I doubt it's declined that much. But even if you take the list I posted and subtract 30% from all the Canadian numbers, only 4 of the 9 Canadian malls would drop off the list. So Canada would still have 5 of the top 15.

And that list that you posted is indeed only American malls - I can't believe you didn't notice that. Thus I'm not sure why you posted it in response to a list of top-performing North American malls.


Here is the original list:

1. Pacific Centre, Vancouver BC Canada: $1580/sq ft
2. Caesar's Palace, Las Vegas NV USA: $1470/sq ft
3. Toronto Eaton Centre, Toronto ON Canada: $1320/sq ft
4. Yorkdale Shopping Centre, Toronto ON Canada: $1300/sq ft
5. Ala Moana Shopping Centre, Honolulu HI USA: $1250/sq ft
6. Oakridge Shopping Centre, Vancouver BC Canada: $1200/sq ft
7. Chinook Centre, Calgary AB Canada: $1055/sq ft
8. Mall at Short Hills, Short Hills NJ USA: $1050/sq ft
9. Mall at Millenia, Orlando FL USA: $1040/sq ft
10. Rideau Centre, Ottawa ON Canada: $1020/sq ft
11: Sherway Gardens, Toronto ON Canada: $950
12: Fairview Mall, Toronto ON Canada: $880/sq ft
13: Fashion Valley Shopping Centre, San Diego CA USA: $875/sq ft
14: Peter Pond Mall, Ft. McMurray AB Canada: $850/sq ft (we're not joking about this one)
15: Garden State Plaza, Paramus NJ USA: $750/sq ft

Subtract 30% from all the Canadian malls, and only #10, 11, 12, and 14 fall below #15 (Garden State Plaza). The other 5 remain above it.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by NorthernDancer

Well, no you're wrong. Someone said that the Canadian dollar declined 30% since 2012 (the original list I posted). I doubt it's declined that much. But even if you take the list I posted and subtract 30% from all the Canadian numbers, only 4 of the 9 Canadian malls would drop off the list. So Canada would still have 5 of the top 15.

And that list that you posted is indeed only American malls - I can't believe you didn't notice that. Thus I'm not sure why you posted it in response to a list of top-performing North American malls.


Here is the original list:

1. Pacific Centre, Vancouver BC Canada: $1580/sq ft
2. Caesar's Palace, Las Vegas NV USA: $1470/sq ft
3. Toronto Eaton Centre, Toronto ON Canada: $1320/sq ft
4. Yorkdale Shopping Centre, Toronto ON Canada: $1300/sq ft
5. Ala Moana Shopping Centre, Honolulu HI USA: $1250/sq ft
6. Oakridge Shopping Centre, Vancouver BC Canada: $1200/sq ft
7. Chinook Centre, Calgary AB Canada: $1055/sq ft
8. Mall at Short Hills, Short Hills NJ USA: $1050/sq ft
9. Mall at Millenia, Orlando FL USA: $1040/sq ft
10. Rideau Centre, Ottawa ON Canada: $1020/sq ft
11: Sherway Gardens, Toronto ON Canada: $950
12: Fairview Mall, Toronto ON Canada: $880/sq ft
13: Fashion Valley Shopping Centre, San Diego CA USA: $875/sq ft
14: Peter Pond Mall, Ft. McMurray AB Canada: $850/sq ft (we're not joking about this one)
15: Garden State Plaza, Paramus NJ USA: $750/sq ft

Subtract 30% from all the Canadian malls, and only #10, 11, 12, and 14 fall below #15 (Garden State Plaza). The other 5 remain above it.

This data is old and not reflective of current economic conditions.

[spyguy]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

This data is old and not reflective of current economic conditions.

Yeah, Bal Harbour is not even included in that list, so something is not quite right.

This article seems to have a more current ranking of Canadian malls (I'm assuming these are in CAD):
http://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2015/5/most-productive

Then here's one of American malls:
http://fortune.com/2014/10/29/malls-that-make-the-most/

If you combine the two lists together and factor in the FX rates, I don't think there would be a Canadian mall in the top 10. If the first list is already in USD, then there would be a few Canadian malls included but not at the very top.

[sopas ej]

Haha!

"MY mall sells more than YOUR mall."

"No MY mall sells more than your mall."

Who the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 sticks cares?

[10023]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Haha!

"MY mall sells more than YOUR mall."

"No MY mall sells more than your mall."

Who the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 sticks cares?

Yep. Quality over quantity.

I find it remarkable that the Mall of America can be so huge but offer such crappy shopping. The stores are the same as any low- to mid-range mall in the US (luxury brands and higher end department stores like Niemans, Saks and Barneys are absent completely), it just has all of them. It just makes you realize how many chain stores there are, and a lot of it is pretty low end stuff... but of course they're catering to people who see shopping malls as a destination.

https://www.mallofamerica.com/shopping/directory

[NorthernDancer]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

This data is old and not reflective of current economic conditions.

And the list you linked to is a list of only the top-performing malls in the United States, and not the top-performing malls in North America. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't notice that your list only included American malls rather than assume you were being intentionally deceiving.

And the top Canadian malls on that list (especially Yorkdale) are still at the top of the list in 2016. Yorkdale might even be #1 in North America in sales per s.f. by now. Since that list was posted they've expanded their Holt Renfrew, which is a very high end department store, and added other luxury retailers which do high sales per sf.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by NorthernDancer

And the list you linked to is a list of only the top-performing malls in the United States, and not the top-performing malls in North America. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't notice that your list only included American malls rather than assume you were being intentionally deceiving.

Really I could care less if you are incredulous or not, the data in spyguy's post confirms my statement.

And the top Canadian malls on that list (especially Yorkdale) are still at the top of the list in 2016. Yorkdale might even be #1 in North America in sales per s.f. by now. Since that list was posted they've expanded their Holt Renfrew, which is a very high end department store, and added other luxury retailers which do high sales per sf.

Highly unlikely given the fact that lots of these malls are expanding and how much ahead Bal Harbour is.

The Canadian economy has slowed down due to the steep decline in global oil prices and the devalued CAD.

No need to get offended, thats just life.

[NorthernDancer]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Really I could care less if you are incredulous or not, the data in spyguy's post confirms my statement.

What "statement". You responded to a discussion of top-performing malls in North America with a list of top-performing malls in the United States with the comment "Yup. 2015 is a different story.". Obviously the lists are going to look different when they're measuring two completely different things

You probably hoped no one would notice that your list was measuring something completely different.

[NorthernDancer]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Highly unlikely given the fact that lots of these malls are expanding and how much ahead Bal Harbour is.

Most of the Canadian malls on the list are expanding too. Yorkdale will have more than 1.8 million sf of retail space after it's current expansion is done.

But why would an expansion lead to higher sales per sf?

The Canadian economy has slowed down due to the steep decline in global oil prices and the devalued CAD.

No need to get offended, thats just life.

I'm not getting "offended". You're the one who responded to a list of top performing malls in North America with a list of top performing malls in the United States. Either you're too slow to notice that they were measuring two completely different things, or you were being intentionally deceitful hoping no one would notice. Either way it reflects very poorly on you.

[dave8721]

Originally Posted by NorthernDancer

What "statement". You responded to a discussion of top-performing malls in North America with a list of top-performing malls in the United States with the comment "Yup. 2015 is a different story.". Obviously the lists are going to look different when they're measuring two completely different things

You probably hoped no one would notice that your list was measuring something completely different.

If you looked at the list you would have seen the the top malls it listed were all missing from the weird North America list that you posted was somehow missing all the top grossing American malls.

[NorthernDancer]

Originally Posted by dave8721

If you looked at the list you would have seen the the top malls it listed were all missing from the weird North America list that you posted was somehow missing all the top grossing American malls.

Huh? How was the list I posted "weird"?

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by NorthernDancer

What "statement". You responded to a discussion of top-performing malls in North America with a list of top-performing malls in the United States with the comment "Yup. 2015 is a different story.". Obviously the lists are going to look different when they're measuring two completely different things

You probably hoped no one would notice that your list was measuring something completely different.

Hahahaha you mean I dont want people to know the most recent data?

Oh wait, that would be you who keeps reposting OLD data based on a 4-year old exchange rate. LOL.

[SLO]

Originally Posted by CIA

I'm surprised the rise of online shopping hasn't hastened the decline of department stores like Macy's.

It is affecting them. This article talks about Nordstrom and the shift in sales to online is having a profound affect.

https://www.internetretailer.com/2015/02/20/e-commerce-nordstrom-accounts-15-total-sales

[NorthernDancer]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Hahahaha you mean I dont want people to know the most recent data?

No, I mean that you post two lists measuring two completely different things, and say "Yup. 2015 is a different story".



Yeah, when lists are measuring completely different things, they tend to be different.