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  #2741  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2016, 10:29 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by maru2501 View Post
at the very least take the fence down and make it a park
Exactly. I would love to see another proper plaza in there. Not a huge thing, but a place with areas to sit, a fountain, etc. Nice landscaping - downtown needs a few more of those.
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  #2742  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2016, 11:57 PM
hawainpanda hawainpanda is offline
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What's the deal with that awful block-sized plot of empty land directly north of the Rice Cube? It's the worst blight in downtown Chicago, imho. If Northwestern owns it they ought to be ashamed of themselves.
although I agree that NMH can do better than just placing a fence around it, that land is being reserved for future use for clinical/research buildings. It is common for many similar large academic medical centers in urban areas to monopolize on land surrounding their existing buildings so that they can plan for future expansions. Institutions that don't do this, or couldn't do this ie many of the NYC medical centers have a hard time catching up to other medical centers when it comes to expanding (and frequently pay significantly more for similar expansions made by other instutions.)
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  #2743  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 2:40 AM
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Remember a few years back this lot had an ugly construction style fence and was all rubble. Northwestern's compromise with SOAR (who they need to cooperate with to some degree) was to enlarge the sidewalk on Fairbanks with bench seating, add planted flower boxed on each corner, replace the rubble with prairie grass planting, and upgrade the fence to a more permanent and attractive type. I agree that this would be an awesome location for a park, but I doubt NW will give it up as its location is too valuable.
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  #2744  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 2:55 AM
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  #2745  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 3:20 AM
VKChaz VKChaz is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Yeah a better comparison is Market Common Clarendon outside DC, if you've seen it. Same dream team of McCaffery and Antunovich. The courtyard/auto turnaround there is actually pretty pleasant and it has a good retail mix.

Again, though, I'm not sure how successful McCaffery will be at landing national chains when North/Clybourn is only 1 mile south and has pretty much every chain already. (IMO North/Clybourn actually needs to de-concentrate...)
The design may be fine for what it is. But as with any shopping complex / strip plaza (the fact that residential is included does not change the math), it appears to add large, concentrated retail capacity with parking that then competes with nearby neighborhood shopping/dining streets. And this general trend across the city leads to more cars and fewer walkable shopping areas as storefronts are left empty.
We will see what happens with what actually ends up there (perhaps, optimistically, it will have little broader impact or will draw people to the area), but seems it would have been sufficient to renovate the corner building plus add additional small scale retail along Lincoln consistent with what is found in the area.
I also would have liked to have seen a boutique hotel considered. Not sure what to make of the open space / courtyard and I wonder if that may end up developed at some point

Last edited by VKChaz; Feb 16, 2016 at 3:50 AM.
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  #2746  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 3:22 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by hawainpanda View Post
although I agree that NMH can do better than just placing a fence around it, that land is being reserved for future use for clinical/research buildings. It is common for many similar large academic medical centers in urban areas to monopolize on land surrounding their existing buildings so that they can plan for future expansions. Institutions that don't do this, or couldn't do this ie many of the NYC medical centers have a hard time catching up to other medical centers when it comes to expanding (and frequently pay significantly more for similar expansions made by other instutions.)
What a concept, making institutions pay market price for the expensive, central, parcels of land they are building on. They might even seek to fully utilize those parcels rather than building 20 story turds all over the place. It might even force them to be architecturally innovative. But we musn't force that burden on them though, because sick children.

It's about time we lift non profit status for organizations like Northwestern Medical which are essentially non-profits operating in a highly lucrative for-profit marketplace. I was one of the last people to speak in favor of this building at the final public hearing when the un-landmarked Prentice in a sham vote by a bunch of "landmarks commissioners" exactly zero of whom were architects or even professionals in a related field. I was one of many voices that night that suggested similar concerns about this abuse of the system. It's a shame that our land use laws provide such a joke of protection from the ongoing urban planning and preservation disasters that are institutions like Northwestern.

Given the amount of contiguous land Northwestern owns they could easily build upwards for a very long time before hitting heights that actually become cost prohibitive. Hospitals are expensive structures, but not all that structurally dissimilar from office buildings. There is a reason why we get almost exclusively 650' 750' office buildings in Chicago: That is the tallest height at which such a structure becomes cost ineffective. Accounting for the increased circulation and infrastructure concerns of a hospital program you could argue the height is lower for hospitals, but it's certainly not 300' like the average height of the Streeterville Campus. Also, remember that we are talking about whole blocks of land here which I would argue negates the circulation difficulties of building upwards.

And if the efficient height really is that low for hospitals, then they should be generally forced to cheaper land in the periphery. There is no reason to have any of the research, therapy, long term care, etc units there. Those units aren't critical like emergency services. If forced to play by the same rules as everyone else, non-critical services would simply vacate the area. This is why this area is no longer distribution facilities and boat slips. Those uses no longer make economic sense given the prevailing land values. Maybe it's time for those users to pay their fair share or move to a more logical location like IMD where they can frolic in the open prairie and even afford to build suburban abominations if their hearts so desire. And I think it's obvious, given the general state of hospital design, the idea of nice parking lot moat around their hospital arouses the lust of many a Chief Medical Officer.

Last edited by LouisVanDerWright; Feb 16, 2016 at 3:32 AM.
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  #2747  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by maru2501 View Post
at the very least take the fence down and make it a park
Not going to happen, even temporarily speaking.
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  #2748  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 3:53 AM
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  #2749  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 3:56 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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^^^ Equipment equipment everywhere. I can no longer safely operate a motor vehicle downtown. I'm too distracted. It seems like we are getting one start a week now. Like who the hell is "Stalworth Underground". Case and Revcon must be jacking up their prices since their crews are so busy since all these new entrants like Michaels and smaller guys like stalworth keep showing up.
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  #2750  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 4:24 AM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
It's about time we lift non profit status for organizations like Northwestern Medical
You may want to do a bit of research before getting too invested in this argument. NMH has been required to pay property taxes since 2007.
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  #2751  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 4:27 AM
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Some corporations have no shame .....
Was born there... Still sad they tore that down
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  #2752  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 2:02 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
You may want to do a bit of research before getting too invested in this argument. NMH has been required to pay property taxes since 2007.
False, if that were the case then Berrios wouldn't have been considering making them pay taxes in 2011 during the Prentice issue:

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestate/20111115/NEWS03/111119881

I knew there were rumblings about forcing them to pay, but I don't think they ever went through with it. If they did, great, maybe our bitching got something done for onelce. I hope Berrios ended up revoking their exemption in the wake of Prentice (which i dont ever recall hearing), but its totally disingenuous to claim "they've been paying since 2007" when the above article makes it abundantly clear that as of the end of 2011 they had not been paying taxes and the assessor was contemplating changing that.
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  #2753  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Swicago Swi Sox View Post
Remember a few years back this lot had an ugly construction style fence and was all rubble. Northwestern's compromise with SOAR (who they need to cooperate with to some degree) was to enlarge the sidewalk on Fairbanks with bench seating, add planted flower boxed on each corner, replace the rubble with prairie grass planting, and upgrade the fence to a more permanent and attractive type. I agree that this would be an awesome location for a park, but I doubt NW will give it up as its location is too valuable.
This is indicative of what surprises me most. I've lived in four college towns, and universities usually seem to care a great deal about the communities they are part of. I was in New Haven before this -- Yale has spent a fortune improving some of the areas around campus there. Northwestern, on the other hand, apparently had to be forced into just putting up a decent fence with a few flowerboxes and some unkempt grass.

This lot is the worst eyesore in downtown Chicago - because of its location and because it stands out so much. I hate surface parking lots, but at least you expect them and don't really notice them in a city. This lot looks completely incongruous with its surrounding. Of course Northwestern is not just going to donate it as a park to the city, but there are a lot of much better things they could do with it while they wait to develop it - especially since that is likely decades away. I guess Northwestern just doesn't care about Streeterville, which seems really surprising to me.
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  #2754  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 3:34 PM
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I don't like it, but the worst empty-lot eyesore has to go to the surface parking at Illinois, Rush and Grand in 400 block
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  #2755  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
False, if that were the case then Berrios wouldn't have been considering making them pay taxes in 2011 during the Prentice issue
Did you even read the article you linked?
“When the state made its decision, it was effective back to 2007”
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  #2756  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 4:49 PM
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  #2757  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 6:17 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
Did you even read the article you linked?
“When the state made its decision, it was effective back to 2007”
I couldn't get the text of it while I was on my phone and thought it was another one discussing them considering doing that. I'm glad to hear they actually did that. Serves them right for all their land banking.

My point still stands however, they were not "paying taxes since 2007", they were forced to pay in arrears back to 2007 at the end if 2011.
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  #2758  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 7:41 PM
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^Now I'm completely baffled as to what you are arguing regarding NMH.

I will stand by my earlier suggestion that you actually research this issue before trying to use it as an argument regarding land banking.
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  #2759  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by VKChaz View Post
The design may be fine for what it is. But as with any shopping complex / strip plaza (the fact that residential is included does not change the math), it appears to add large, concentrated retail capacity with parking that then competes with nearby neighborhood shopping/dining streets. And this general trend across the city leads to more cars and fewer walkable shopping areas as storefronts are left empty.
We will see what happens with what actually ends up there (perhaps, optimistically, it will have little broader impact or will draw people to the area), but seems it would have been sufficient to renovate the corner building plus add additional small scale retail along Lincoln consistent with what is found in the area.
I also would have liked to have seen a boutique hotel considered. Not sure what to make of the open space / courtyard and I wonder if that may end up developed at some point
Wait... what? The open space probably will not be developed, unless it's some kind of restaurant pavilion. But as McCaffery found at Roosevelt Collection, that actually harms the visibility of stores at the back of the courtyard, so it can be a net loss.

Also, if this development 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 business away from North/Clybourn, I will be a happy man. There's got to be businesses looking for new construction on the North Side with parking availability, but aren't going to North/Clybourn because of the congestion. Maybe if the retail is spread out a bit more on the North Side, the North/Clybourn area can deconcentrate on retail and become more mixed-use and pedestrian-oriented.
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  #2760  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2016, 10:56 PM
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Children's Memorial Hospital

Quote:
Children's Memorial developers score Abu Dhabi investment
by Alby Gallun

Chicago-based McCaffery and Houston-based Hines plan to start tearing down the hospital in the first-quarter 2016, a process that will take about eight months, said Hines Senior Managing Director Greg Van Schaack. The developers expect to start construction on the six-acre site in first-quarter 2017, with the first tenants expected to move in by late 2018.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestat...al&utm_campaign=ccb-residential-20160216
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