HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #8021  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 8:34 PM
thmx
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Content removed
     
     
  #8022  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 4:02 PM
Horus's Avatar
Horus Horus is offline
I ask because I Gatineau
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aylmer (by way of GTA)
Posts: 1,213
Wow...didn't see this coming

From the Star: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/transpor...on-express-fares-as-ridership-sinks.html
Quote:
Metrolinx reconsidering Union Pearson Express fares as ridership sinks
Ridership has dropped since the Union Pearson Express launched in June, the latest numbers show.

By: Tess Kalinowski Transportation reporter, Published on Fri Feb 05 2016

Toronto’s new airport train is struggling to attract riders amid continuing criticism that the $456 million Union Pearson Express is simply too expensive.

On Friday, Metrolinx, the provincial agency that runs the train, said it will consider price adjustments among other options for building ridership.
The standard one-way adult fare on UPX is $27.50 but riders paying with a Presto card can board for $19.

Six months after it launched, Union Pearson Express (UPX) ridership levels were down significantly from the summer, hitting a low of 65,593 riders in November, 13,000 fewer passengers than the October high of 79,000.

A report to the Metrolinx board on Wednesday, argues that it will take time to change the ingrained habits of travellers accustomed to driving or taking a cab to the airport.

It also attributed the ridership drop to seasonal patterns in air travel. Pearson air traffic also fell in the late autumn.

“At peak times we are meeting our projections. Our experience is not dissimilar to that of other jurisdictions when they launched air-rail links like UP Express. It takes time to build awareness and loyalty,” said the report.
Kathy Haley, the Metrolinx executive in charge of UPX was unavailable for comment Friday, said a spokeswoman.

“This is an asset that has a 60-year lifespan so we are committed to the long-term success of this project,” Anne Marie Aikins said in an email.
Even in December, when UPX ridership bounced back slightly by 1,600 riders over the previous month, its numbers lagged Pearson’s increased holiday traffic, although the train’s main market is business rather than leisure travellers.

The disappointing numbers came the same day UPX announced it will offer free rides on the Family Day-Valentine’s Day weekend, Feb. 13 to 15. That promotion follows a buy-one-get-one-free ticket deal that ran from November through the end of January.

Metrolinx says customer satisfaction with the train is so high that once people try it they are certain to come back. It cites research showing that it can be difficult to penetrate airport travellers, who tend to stick with the mode they know.

It also says it is tweaking its operations, including making the service more visible at the airport.

“We have identified barriers — such as low awareness, ingrained travel habits, difficulty finding UP Express and impediments to ticket sales — and are strategizing to overcome these barriers. Promotional campaigns, better way-finding signage and incentive programs are examples of strategies being developed and implemented,” the provincial agency said in a statement.

On Thursday, the Star reported that Metrolinx has been unable to reach an agreement with Via Rail to allow its southwestern Ontario passengers to transfer to the UPX at Weston Station.

But Councillor Josh Matlow, who prompted the city to call on Metrolinx to lower UPX fares, said the business model has never made sense and it’s time Metrolinx took another look at the fares.

While he applauded some changes introduced in Jan., including a policy that allows children 12 and under to ride free, it won’t be enough to attract the 5,000 riders a day UPX is targeting,” he said.

“It still doesn’t make it economical for the average family. If it’s an adult couple it actually costs virtually the same price to take a cab from the comfort of your own home.

“If not a regular public transit fare, at least a fare that is far more accessible to the average Toronto resident,” he said.

“To invest half a billion dollars into a boutique train for business travellers when the average Toronto resident has been waiting decades for public rapid transit access to our airport is shameful,” said Matlow.

Earlier this year UPX numbers showed it was attracting only about half its targeted ridership.

Public transit advocates have suggested the two stops at Weston and Bloor St. aren’t enough between Union Station and Pearson airport. Metrolinx says fewer stops allow the train to make the trip in 25 minutes.

On report suggested that UPX could be incorporated into Mayor John Tory’s SmartTrack transit plan to move Toronto commuters on the GO tracks and relieve crowding on the TTC.
     
     
  #8023  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 4:29 PM
niwell's Avatar
niwell niwell is online now
sick transit, gloria
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Roncesvalles, Toronto
Posts: 11,593
Most of the times I've taken UP it's reasonably used. Not packed but not super empty either. It was actually hard to find a seat when I left for Pearson after work on December 23rd to go to Calgary.

I won't complain if they lower the fare though. Although like many patrons I've only actually paid myself once - the rest were claimed as work expenses.
     
     
  #8024  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 6:46 PM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,841
Before they drop all fares on UPX, they may want to just consider dropping off-peak fares.

At peak times, the trains are reasonably full. It's just that there are long periods of the day when only 2 or 3 people will be willing to pay to use the service, so trains leave every 15 minutes 90% empty. They should never cut the frequency of the service - otherwise the convenience and time-saving aspect would be ruined - so they should just cut the pricing during those off-peak times to attract more people while still breaking even.

It's not mass transit, and a service like UPX should always have at least some empty seats. Once customers have to stand, the appeal of a premium service quickly goes downhill. Imagine paying to use the airport lounge and finding that all the desks and sofas were taken.
     
     
  #8025  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 10:19 PM
SkahHigh's Avatar
SkahHigh SkahHigh is offline
More transit please
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,794
Here it is... Finally!



     
     
  #8026  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 11:02 PM
nephersir7 nephersir7 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 162
Here's a video (not mine) that shows the new metro train very well:

Video Link


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-Vvtyg7nl8
     
     
  #8027  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 12:12 AM
holhm22 holhm22 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 315
Great stuff there, Montreal!
     
     
  #8028  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 12:49 AM
Monolith's Avatar
Monolith Monolith is offline
Pacific Breeze
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Southwestern British Columbia
Posts: 1,234
Very nice. Congratulations Montreal!
     
     
  #8029  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 12:57 AM
The Chemist's Avatar
The Chemist The Chemist is offline
恭喜发财!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 中国上海/Shanghai
Posts: 8,875
Looks nice, but very narrow.
__________________
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature." - Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
     
     
  #8030  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 1:22 AM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 12,812
Montreal has always had narrow trains.. It allows them to build the network on the cheap, as they can do single bore tunnels.

And the Azurs look great! The pass through train must seem odd.
     
     
  #8031  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 1:38 AM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 22,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Before they drop all fares on UPX, they may want to just consider dropping off-peak fares.

At peak times, the trains are reasonably full. It's just that there are long periods of the day when only 2 or 3 people will be willing to pay to use the service, so trains leave every 15 minutes 90% empty. They should never cut the frequency of the service - otherwise the convenience and time-saving aspect would be ruined - so they should just cut the pricing during those off-peak times to attract more people while still breaking even.

It's not mass transit, and a service like UPX should always have at least some empty seats. Once customers have to stand, the appeal of a premium service quickly goes downhill. Imagine paying to use the airport lounge and finding that all the desks and sofas were taken.
I think they need to be patient and maybe spend more on marketing. I'm not the biggest fan of the regular fare and the large Presto discount for locals. $27 looks pricey next to $19.
     
     
  #8032  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 3:40 PM
The Chemist's Avatar
The Chemist The Chemist is offline
恭喜发财!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 中国上海/Shanghai
Posts: 8,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Montreal has always had narrow trains.. It allows them to build the network on the cheap, as they can do single bore tunnels.

And the Azurs look great! The pass through train must seem odd.
I guess in a city of Montreal's size that's not a huge issue, but they cheaped out with narrow tunnels / trains on a couple of lines here (Line 8 in particular) and now they're paying for it with extreme overcrowding on those lines, without any real way of improving the situation other than adding more trains.

Pass through trains are great - they're on almost all lines here in Shanghai and they really do improve capacity.
__________________
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature." - Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
     
     
  #8033  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 3:45 PM
SkahHigh's Avatar
SkahHigh SkahHigh is offline
More transit please
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,794
This was the thing that surprised me the most in Toronto, how large the trains were.

For comparison's sake, the Toronto Rocket and the Montreal Azur:


     
     
  #8034  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 3:57 PM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 12,812
Toronto's subway cars are actually wider than a typical metro train from my understanding.. IIRC when Toronto opened its subway in the 1950's the train cars were both the longest and widest globally.
     
     
  #8035  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 4:28 PM
mistercorporate's Avatar
mistercorporate mistercorporate is offline
The Fruit of Discipline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Toronto's subway cars are actually wider than a typical metro train from my understanding.. IIRC when Toronto opened its subway in the 1950's the train cars were both the longest and widest globally.
Yet the Yonge line is still overcrowded as all hell during rush hour *facepalm*.
The DT relief line couldn't come soon enough..
__________________
MLS: Toronto FC
Canadian Premier League: York 9 FC
NBA: Raptors
     
     
  #8036  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 5:55 PM
caltrane74's Avatar
caltrane74 caltrane74 is offline
gettin' rich!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 34,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
Yet the Yonge line is still overcrowded as all hell during rush hour *facepalm*.
The DT relief line couldn't come soon enough..
One of my best experiences ever was riding an overcrowded subway on the Yonge Line about 13 years ago.. maybe 2003/2002 area.. I will never forget that ride, basically all the way from Eglinton to Bloor.
     
     
  #8037  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 6:42 PM
mistercorporate's Avatar
mistercorporate mistercorporate is offline
The Fruit of Discipline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltrane74 View Post
One of my best experiences ever was riding an overcrowded subway on the Yonge Line about 13 years ago.. maybe 2003/2002 area.. I will never forget that ride, basically all the way from Eglinton to Bloor.
When you miss 3 full subway trains before one arrives that isn't 110% over capacity, that fun factor dies out quick.

__________________
MLS: Toronto FC
Canadian Premier League: York 9 FC
NBA: Raptors
     
     
  #8038  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 8:55 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,354
I really like how they used rusty steel to decorate the new GO Station, it's kinda symbolic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomax View Post
     
     
  #8039  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 9:45 PM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 22,890
Yonge is packed for the downtown section but, I can't recall ever waiting through 3 packed trains. Two a couple times when there were delays. I guess if you hugs the wall.

Montreal trains look good. Looks like grab bars are available throughout the train unlike the new ttc cars.
     
     
  #8040  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 10:06 PM
Riise's Avatar
Riise Riise is offline
City Maker
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary | London
Posts: 3,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
now they're paying for it with extreme overcrowding on those lines, without any real way of improving the situation other than adding more trains.
Longer platforms and trains could be another option no? Stations would be more expensive but that may not exceed the savings of a single bore.
__________________
“Such suburban models are being rationalized as ‘what people want,’ when in fact they are simply what is most expedient to produce. The truth is that what people want is a decent place to live, not just a suburban version of a decent place to live.”
- Roberta Brandes Gratz
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:19 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.