Highways in Canada

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Before the extension, Highway 407 ended with no freeway link to the 401. Building this extension makes sense. Even if this is the furthest it goes, it gets people back on to the 401 without going through slow areas.

Extending the 417 is needed, but, really, the GTA has some serious congestion.

The 407 is supposed to stay in Ontario government hands.

I suppose they wanted to address some local traffic issues with the 412 and 418 (killing three birds with one stone) but I find it odd that the link-up from the 401 to the 407 wasn't just done with an east-west route (407 extension) that would have run naturally northwestwards from a new 401-407 junction in the vicinity of Bowmanville-Clarington.

Instead of two totally perpendicular routes that make you go north-south when your journey is actually east-west.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

The 407 extension is such a waste. Im assuming they are expanding the fare paid area. And also assuming that the ownership will be handed over to the 407ETR gang who are supposed to toll and maintain it. How much usage does the 407 see daily anyways?
I think the money would have been better spent further north in say, Renfrew County extending the 417.

As for the 401 extension in Windsor, it seems to be an innovative approach to keeping communities together. Too bad they didnt think about that when they built every highway through Ottawa / Toronto.

I feel like the community barrier ideology is such a buzz thing right now.

A lot of things can be barriers to communities, and all communities have barriers or some sort irrespective if they have a highway or not.

Railways can be barriers, utilities corridors can be barriers, rivers can be barriers, and yes highways can be barriers.

The biggest argument about highways being barriers stems from when they were cut through pre-existing urban neighbourhoods in instances where formerly no barrier previously existed. Highway construction happened like this in Quebec, but by in large (there are exceptions) didn't in Ontario.

For example, The Gardiner is built adjacent to the railway line, which has always been a community barrier. The 417 through Ottawa was built on a former railway right-of-way, which itself had always been a barrier. Other Toronto area highways such as the 401 and 427 were built on predominantly greenfield alignments, or displaced rural dwellings that were never community oriented anyways. So they never established a new barrier that wasn't already there anyways.

The 401 in extension in Windsor is awesome, but in my opinion its design doesn't really have anything to do with not creating an urban barrier. The new highway replaced Hwy 3, which was previously lined with predominantly rural dwellings that were never community focused anyways.

[Innsertnamehere]

The 407 extension is largely self financing from my understanding. Capital costs will be recouped from tolls.

Renfrew is probably going to get its money soon anyway.. There has been a big push for further extensions of the 417 and the province and Feds have been looking for places to drop a lot of infrastructure cash..

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

I feel like the community barrier ideology is such a buzz thing right now.

A lot of things can be barriers to communities, and all communities have barriers or some sort irrespective if they have a highway or not.

Railways can be barriers, utilities corridors can be barriers, rivers can be barriers, and yes highways can be barriers.

The biggest argument about highways being barriers stems from when they were cut through pre-existing urban neighbourhoods in instances where formerly no barrier previously existed. Highway construction happened like this in Quebec, but by in large (there are exceptions) didn't in Ontario.

For example, The Gardiner is built adjacent to the railway line, which has always been a community barrier. The 417 through Ottawa was built on a former railway right-of-way, which itself had always been a barrier. Other Toronto area highways such as the 401 and 427 were built on predominantly greenfield alignments, or displaced rural dwellings that were never community oriented anyways. So they never established a new barrier that wasn't already there anyways.

The 401 in extension in Windsor is awesome, but in my opinion its design doesn't really have anything to do with not creating an urban barrier. The new highway replaced Hwy 3, which was previously lined with predominantly rural dwellings that were never community focused anyways.

Agreed. The "barrier" argument is especially a red herring when the area being "split" is an automobile-oriented one and there is no pedestrian contact between the areas supposedly being bisected.

A typical subdivision, for example, is an enclosed unit, and there is very little reason for people to venture across the arterial road or the hydro corridor to the subdivision on the other side, whether by foot or by car. If the right of way is large enough to accommodate a freeway, there's even less likelihood that people on one side had any psychological connection to the people on the other prior to the freeway being built.

Like a lot of things, the "barrier" argument is a hangover from the bad old days of the 1950s when homes and businesses in densely packed urban neighbourhoods were expropriated and pulled down so urban expressways could be smashed through.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The 407 extension is largely self financing from my understanding. Capital costs will be recouped from tolls.

Renfrew is probably going to get its money soon anyway.. There has been a big push for further extensions of the 417 and the province and Feds have been looking for places to drop a lot of infrastructure cash..

I'm pretty sure the whole section from Arnprior up to Renfrew is shovel ready (the first quarter of it is U/C now) so it can be built as soon as money flows.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

The 407 extension is such a waste. Im assuming they are expanding the fare paid area. And also assuming that the ownership will be handed over to the 407ETR gang who are supposed to toll and maintain it. How much usage does the 407 see daily anyways?
I think the money would have been better spent further north in say, Renfrew County extending the 417.

As for the 401 extension in Windsor, it seems to be an innovative approach to keeping communities together. Too bad they didnt think about that when they built every highway through Ottawa / Toronto.

Ownership of the 407 extension will be in the hands of the province. 407ETR is contracted to run the billing so that it's an integrated billing system and customers only get one bill, but the money from the provincially-owned section will go the province and the province sets its own toll rates on it.

I believe the province is expected to make $150M a year off Phase 1 (heard that number somewhere, I think someone said so on UT). If that's true, it will repay its construction cost fully in about 7 years.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I'm pretty sure the whole section from Arnprior up to Renfrew is shovel ready (the first quarter of it is U/C now) so it can be built as soon as money flows.

I was through Renfrew late in the fall, and at the time that I drove through I saw a survey crew out at the intersection between Highway 17 and Highway 60. It might not be related to future highway construction, but on the other hand it could be. That said, even if the surveying was for an eventual extension of Hwy 417, surveying today would likely mean they won't be ready to build anything for at least a few years.

[Innsertnamehere]

Yea construction would probably have to wait a year or two to update the EA and do final design, just like any highway project. I could see it starting construction 2018 and finishing 2021 or so.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Yea construction would probably have to wait a year or two to update the EA and do final design, just like any highway project. I could see it starting construction 2018 and finishing 2021 or so.

I can't see construction being done that quickly to be honest. It wouldn't surprise me if by 2021 they were as far as Calabogie Road or so, but I can't see them making it all the way to Renfrew by then.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I suppose they wanted to address some local traffic issues with the 412 and 418 (killing three birds with one stone) but I find it odd that the link-up from the 401 to the 407 wasn't just done with an east-west route (407 extension) that would have run naturally northwestwards from a new 401-407 junction in the vicinity of Bowmanville-Clarington.

Instead of two totally perpendicular routes that make you go north-south when your journey is actually east-west.

The plans I've seen from almost 40 years ago seemed to suggest the 407 was to be built to Peterborough, using the 115 right of way. Plans back then included only one freeway link from the 407 to the 401, and it was on the east side of Metro Toronto (or possibly in Pickering).

Based on traffic studies I've seen from the 60s, I suspect the logic of building the 407 towards Peterborough may have been related to facilitating traffic between not only Toronto and Peterborough, but also between Toronto and Ottawa, as well as the cottage areas around the Kawarthas. The 1970s plan, incidentally, did not include a freeway link between Ottawa and Highway 401, but did show a two-lane diversion of Highway 16 up to the 417 roughly where the 416 now is.

Additionally I think the 407 alignment that was chosen will help siphon some traffic off the 401 that currently exits at 35/115. Anyone who has been on the 401 in Durham on a Friday summer afternoon knows how congested that gets right now.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

The plans I've seen from almost 40 years ago seemed to suggest the 407 was to be built to Peterborough, using the 115 right of way. Plans back then included only one freeway link from the 407 to the 401, and it was on the east side of Metro Toronto (or possibly in Pickering).

Based on traffic studies I've seen from the 60s, I suspect the logic of building the 407 towards Peterborough may have been related to facilitating traffic between not only Toronto and Peterborough, but also between Toronto and Ottawa, as well as the cottage areas around the Kawarthas. The 1970s plan, incidentally, did not include a freeway link between Ottawa and Highway 401, but did show a two-lane diversion of Highway 16 up to the 417 roughly where the 416 now is.

Additionally I think the 407 alignment that was chosen will help siphon some traffic off the 401 that currently exits at 35/115. Anyone who has been on the 401 in Durham on a Friday summer afternoon knows how congested that gets right now.

Highway 416 south of Ottawa was actually constructed in the 1970s as a super-two, and was called "Highway 16 new" (replacing the old Highway 16 route which was downloaded), and was then twinned in the 1990s.

The original, pre-1970s route of Highway 16 is now Leeds-Grenville County Road 44 between the 401 and Rideau River, Ottawa Road 5 between Rideau River and North Gower, and Prince of Wales Drive between North Gower and Ottawa. It was this route that was initially bypassed as a super two and then became a freeway later.

[FrAnKs]

I finally downloaded the final version of my Confederation Bridge video. I am talking about the construction of the bridge at the beginning following by a footage of the Bridge itself. Enjoy !

• Video Link

[MonctonRad]

Very nice Franks, I may repost this on the Atlantic Canada Highways thread.

The Confederation Bridge is truly an engineering marvel which I think is under-appreciated in the rest of Canada.

At 14 km, it is the longest bridge in the country and has truly revolutionized access to the island province. Being from the Island originally, I can well remember 4-6 hour waits at the ferry terminal to get to and from the mainland in the summertime. You quickly learned what the best times of the day were in order to ensure undelayed passage on the ferry. If you were going to the mainland, you had to build extra time into your schedule just in case you missed the ferry. In the winter time, ferries would occasionally get stuck in sea ice, and it was not unheard of for "Canada to be cut off from PEI" for a couple of days at a time.

Suddenly, in 1997, Islanders had unimpeded access to the mainland! Tourism to PEI took a spike and was up by at least 25-30% as day tripping from Moncton became easy (with predictable travel times). Similarly, Islanders would cross without much thought to go shopping in the larger centres of Moncton and Halifax. There was free flow of goods, and PEI became fully integrated into the continental supply line. Prices on goods decreased a little.

The bridge was revolutionary. I often wonder if the success of the bridge could be replicated on the other side of the continent with a fixed link between Vancouver Island and the mainland. I wonder if this is even possible? How deep is the Strait of Juan de Fuca???

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

I finally downloaded the final version of my Confederation Bridge video. I am talking about the construction of the bridge at the beginning following by a footage of the Bridge itself. Enjoy !

Nice video; but one correction. Your images of the "PEI has some stunning Maritime landscapes" shows the Hopewell Cape flowerpot rocks, which are in NB, not PEI.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Nice video; but one correction. Your images of the "PEI has some stunning Maritime landscapes" shows the Hopewell Cape flowerpot rocks, which are in NB, not PEI.

LOL I know I noticed that mistake ! ... don't ask me why, but when I typed ''P.E.I. Landscapes'' on Google I got this picture ! ... and as I'm not from there I didn't noticed that it was wrong

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Very nice Franks, I may repost this on the Atlantic Canada Highways thread.

The Confederation Bridge is truly an engineering marvel which I think is under-appreciated in the rest of Canada.

At 14 km, it is the longest bridge in the country and has truly revolutionized access to the island province. Being from the Island originally, I can well remember 4-6 hour waits at the ferry terminal to get to and from the mainland in the summertime. You quickly learned what the best times of the day were in order to ensure undelayed passage on the ferry. If you were going to the mainland, you had to build extra time into your schedule just in case you missed the ferry. In the winter time, ferries would occasionally get stuck in sea ice, and it was not unheard of for "Canada to be cut off from PEI" for a couple of days at a time.

Suddenly, in 1997, Islanders had unimpeded access to the mainland! Tourism to PEI took a spike and was up by at least 25-30% as day tripping from Moncton became easy (with predictable travel times). Similarly, Islanders would cross without much thought to go shopping in the larger centres of Moncton and Halifax. There was free flow of goods, and PEI became fully integrated into the continental supply line. Prices on goods decreased a little.

The bridge was revolutionary. I often wonder if the success of the bridge could be replicated on the other side of the continent with a fixed link between Vancouver Island and the mainland. I wonder if this is even possible? How deep is the Strait of Juan de Fuca???

Thank you ! I didn't knew you was from P.E.I. ... are you from Charlottetown ?
But even if it got easier to visit P.E.I, it will still remain an Island and keep that specific and unique personality
And thank you for the interresting facts!

[ssiguy]

Great work Frank!

[Kokkei Mizu]

This may be a stretch, but you can see sections of Hwy 63 at the beginning and end of this video... So it belongs here, right?

• Video Link

[craner]

Awesome video of the Confederation Bridge Franks, just awesome.
Bravo!

Edit: Also enjoyed your FM video Kokkei.

[RueBulmer]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

I finally downloaded the final version of my Confederation Bridge video. I am talking about the construction of the bridge at the beginning following by a footage of the Bridge itself. Enjoy !

• Video Link

Love your videos. Thank you.