Winnipeg Construction VIII

[cllew]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The more important question to be asking is if the circus itself is even open over night.

While the skywalk system locks up at 00:30 nightly until 06:60 I believe the circus is open 24/7.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by cllew

While the skywalk system locks up at 00:30 nightly until 06:60 I believe the circus is open 24/7.

Remove all the skywalks. I want my sidewalks back !!!!!

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Remove all the skywalks. I want my sidewalks back !!!!!

While I get the point of the skywalks they really do kill a lot of pedestrian traffic downtown.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by drew

Geez. We are just talking about letting people cross the street. This isn't some sort of revolutionary change to the City.

Good grief.

You'd think that with all of the angst expressed by the "Keep it closed' people, that we we're talking about shutting down P&M to all traffic and turning it into a park. Or that we're proposing some kind of $100 million mega project.

This is a cheap, easy proposal to increase the livability of the area by giving people 45 seconds to cross the street. 45 seconds, people.

[CoryB]

Suppose opening Portage and Main to pedestrians causes each bus to wait one extra light cycle to clear the intersection. Is that negative impact bigger than whatever positive impact might come from opening it?

It was very interesting the expert from NYC wasn't saying it should be open or stay closed but that more information is needed on the overall impacts before a decision is made either way.

[drew]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Suppose opening Portage and Main to pedestrians causes each bus to wait one extra light cycle to clear the intersection. Is that negative impact bigger than whatever positive impact might come from opening it?

Really - this is what we are worried about here? My brain is starting to hurt.

Buses wait extra light cycles for all kinds of reasons, at various times of the day.

If it is really that much on an issue, they can install transit priority signals. However Buses already have their own lanes traveling from Portage to go north on Main, traveling across Main street in both directions, and turning onto Portage from Main is not going to be an issue. Not sure where you see a problem here.

[esquire]

^ I'm not a doctor, but I'd imagine that this issue would make a good psychiatric case study about resistance to change taken to a ludicrous extreme.

As if letting pedestrians cross at this one specific intersection like they do at virtually every single other one would trigger a chain of events that would lead to the undoing of the entire city. Come on.

[oftheMoon]

Maybe during the cycles when pedestrians are crossing from east to west on the north side will give buses/traffic extra time to go south and speed things up. Vice versa heading north.

I don't understand why it's assumed it will just slow things down. Maybe it will improve the flow...

[rkspec]

so am i the only one here who's sick of this P&M talk?

[BuildUpWpg]

Originally Posted by esquire

There are, but it's a bit of a pain for anyone in a wheelchair, for instance. Say you're at Main and Pioneer and you want to go to 201 Portage... you face the following challenges:

-Enter MTS Place, take a lift to go up some stairs to the main lobby
-Take an elevator down to the concourse level
-Then a shorter lift go down to the actual Portage and Main circus
-Small ramps to get to 201 Portage
-Lift to get past the dip leading to 201 Portage
-Elevator to the 201 Portage lobby

It's like 5 sets of lifts/elevators. Ridiculous.

Las Vegas Blvd has several overhead open air crossings that include escalators (and possibly elevators). Although this might only work during 3 seasons in Winnipeg, at least it's only one elevation change for those wheelchair bound or too slow to walk the 45 second ground level crossing. If you've seen the proposals from the 2004 design competition, a number of them show some sort of overhead crossings. One of them had a plaza right smack dab over the middle of Portage and Main. That would be neat for viewing the intersection (and up the streets) from a very unique prospective. At the same time, the underground entrances should be overhauled to modern standards, so people have real options for crossing the intersection. With all of this, tourists wouldn't be so disappointed when they see Portage and Main after hearing that it's an iconic corner.

[Bluenote]

Personally I'd rather spend $100 million on redoing the circus under PnM and getting rid of the ugly concrete barricades and creating brand new entrances to the underground walkway. Something with skylights. Bright lights. Lots of signage. But I'd have portage and main closed at certain hours. Maybe morning rush hour and evening rush hour. Or during snow storms or when conditions are dangerous for anyone crossing. I am sure this guy who probably will cost a few million for his report can come up with something. Biggest thing you don't want the mall and circus to become dead either. It has to work together.

[bomberjet]

On LVB, I don't think you can cross at grade where they have the overhead walks. There are elevators from what I remember for wheel chairs. Memories of Vegas are always a bit hazy afterwards..

[buzzg]

Well that fact that the lights will be synched and controlled now should squash many of the issues that are coming up with traffic. Plus, the only time busses get backed up now is at rush hour, and they're already getting 4 deep and waiting a couple cycles at some intersections, so this really can't make it worse.

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Biggest thing you don't want the mall and circus to become dead either. It has to work together.

Well if all of the shops underground had to close up and move to street level then that is fucking fantastic.

[CoryB]

In Vegas, when there is a grade separated pedestrian crossing, crossing at grade is not an option.

I have no objection to keeps the P&M barriers but making them look nicer and overhauling the existing entrances to make them more modern, appealing and accessible. While doing all those things they should invest a little and tidy up the mess that is circus itself.

[TimeFadesAway]

Want to really contribute to improving traffic flow at Portage and Main? Live closer to where you work and get up off you fat butt and walk to work.

None of the keep it closed folks seem to be advocating for this vastly more effective intervention.

[rrskylar]

This whole P&M re-opening charade is becoming comical, so they bring in a so-called expert from NYC who draws comparison between P&M and Times Square when in reality P&M should be more accurately compared to Albert & Victoria!

Pretty tough to draw any comparisons between Times Square and P&M to anyone with a straight face, NYC Metro 20 million, NYC most visited city in the US and fifth in the world, the US eastern seaboard with 112,642,503 people(36% of the US total population) to draw on for visitors. Winnipeg 750K, not even on Canada's top 10 list of visited cities.

[drew]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

This whole P&M re-opening charade is becoming comical, so they bring in a so-called expert from NYC who draws comparison between P&M and Times Square when in reality P&M should be more accurately compared to Albert & Victoria!

Pretty tough to draw any comparisons between Times Square and P&M to anyone with a straight face, NYC Metro 20 million, NYC most visited city in the US and fifth in the world, the US eastern seaboard with 112,642,503 people(36% of the US total population) to draw on for visitors. Winnipeg 750K, not even on Canada's top 10 list of visited cities.

Yes. We poor souls in Winnipeg don't deserve nice things. Nobody even wants to come visit us! Why should we bother cleaning the house, if no one will come see it anyway?

rrskylar - a stereotypical Winnipegger to the core!

Sad, but true.

[dennis]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

This whole P&M re-opening charade is becoming comical, so they bring in a so-called expert from NYC who draws comparison between P&M and Times Square when in reality P&M should be more accurately compared to Albert & Victoria!

Pretty tough to draw any comparisons between Times Square and P&M to anyone with a straight face, NYC Metro 20 million, NYC most visited city in the US and fifth in the world, the US eastern seaboard with 112,642,503 people(36% of the US total population) to draw on for visitors. Winnipeg 750K, not even on Canada's top 10 list of visited cities.

Being such a large city and Times Square being so crowded, New York City should definitely put all pedestrians under Times Square to improve traffic flow in already congested Manhattan.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by drew

Why should we bother cleaning the house, if no one will come see it anyway?

I like that approach lol

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by drew

Yes. We poor souls in Winnipeg don't deserve nice things. Nobody even wants to come visit us! Why should we bother cleaning the house, if no one will come see it anyway?

rrskylar - a stereotypical Winnipegger to the core!

Sad, but true.

Right because anyone coming to Winnipeg to visit will surely stop first at Portage and Main to behold the site and stare in awe at the amazing relativity medium sized buildings and quiver ecstatically at the chance to have the orgasmic experience of crossing Portage on Main above ground on foot.

"Cross that off our bucket list Mary were off to see the RCMP Heritage Centre in Regina now"!