Chinese Investors Driving Up Metro Housing Prices

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

A close relative of mine who teaches in the Vancouver adult education program recently pointed out that there were also large numbers of wealthy middle-eastern "refugees" (ones driving luxury cars and giving exclusive residential addresses at registration time) who also are culprit to similar transgressions that we hear of within the immigrant Chinese community.

Your relative is wrong. My brother is a CBSA officer in Toronto right now processing middle east refugees (they flew him there just to help), they are not pretending to be poor. The real estate racket in Vancouver is almost entirely Chinese.

In the late 70s there was a huge wave of rich Persians but they bought houses and came here to live, not to turn our city into the Cayman Islands.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Your relative is wrong. My brother is a CBSA officer in Toronto right now processing middle east refugees (they flew him there just to help), they are not pretending to be poor. The real estate racket in Vancouver is almost entirely Chinese.

In the late 70s there was a huge wave of rich Persians but they bought houses and came here to live, not to turn our city into the Cayman Islands.

Interesting point about the rich Persians.
I hate to name names, so I won't, and people can easily read between the lines, but I enormously resent what is happening to the real estate market here,
and surprised -shall I say shocked - that the Canadian government is doing next to nothing to put the brakes on this freakish situation.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

A close relative of mine who teaches in the Vancouver adult education program recently pointed out that there were also large numbers of wealthy middle-eastern "refugees" (ones driving luxury cars and giving exclusive residential addresses at registration time) who also are culprit to similar transgressions that we hear of within the immigrant Chinese community.

"Refugees" simply means "people displaced from their home and country." Doesn't matter whether their home was a slum or a mansion.

[whatnext]

Evidence doesn't get more clearcut than this:

This $6.2M Vancouver mansion was sold in 2010: It’s been vacant and rotting for six years

The $6.2-million Point Grey home boasts unobstructed vistas of the North Shore mountains, English Bay and Vancouver’s skyline.

A park sits across a quiet street. The home represents everything a family could aspire to.

But it’s vacant and rotting. Windows are left open and debris sits in the yard. Like a symbol of futility, a June 2015 City of Vancouver “untidy-premises” order remains pinned to the door....

...Current owners Huai Can Ren and Xue Pei Sun bought the 4100-block 8th Avenue West home from Wei Min Zhang in July 2011 for $4.6 million, records show.

The couple’s occupations were both listed as “business person.” Wei Min Zhang had bought the home in July 2010 for $3.35 million. On Wednesday, a neighbour told The Province he hadn’t seen the current owners...

....Huai Can Ren and Xue Pei Sun are also owners of a $3.57-million Arbutus Ridge home in the 2300-block 21st Avenue West, records show. The home also appears to be unoccupied...Huai Can Ren, then listed as “businessman,” and Xue Pei Sun, as “homemaker,” bought the home in 2006 for $1.75 million from transferees Zhaohong Su and Xin Li....

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada...old-in-2010-today-its-vacant-and-rotting

[Klazu]

Hardly a "mansion" but here's a working link: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada...old-in-2010-today-its-vacant-and-rotting

[logicbomb]

I will recite a story of how I went to a party with several colleagues. There, I was introduced to the owner of a 2.5 mil penthouse near Cambie and W30th. Clearly this guy felt he had something to prove since he mentioned how his parents were going to purchase a new house in Surrey; and that he had several other properties in Hong Kong. Did I mention that he is only 24 years old student? The new development is your standard mid-rise condo and the penthouse suite is nothing too special; just a good view I guess. What struck me was how lifeless the entire building was-devoid of people and a parkade that pretty much stored Mercedes, Lexus, and BMW's (evident at how these cars were collecting dust).

This might as well be a rant....I grew up around QE and I do recall the area was even lively during the winter months. I would visit friends on the other side of Cambie and play some street hockey. I would frequently see people conversing along the sidewalks and near the park. Now? There is absolutely nothing going on despite the introduction of these mid-rise developments. The entire neighborhood between King Ed to Oakridge is absolutely dead...even on a sunny day.

It's funny. Everyone acknowledges there is a significant problem here. This City has essentially become a resort town - or an oasis to store money with minimal tax implications. The thing is...all levels of government and any regulative body are turning a blind-eye to the matter because there is really no incentive for them to "fix" this. Boomers that purchased these houses are either content with the status quo or on the verge of selling, and many who have been the beneficiaries of inheritance are fully supportive of the status quo.

[Bcasey25raptor]

I am starting to seriously believe that overseas investors really are the cause of our out of control housing market. Reasons I believe this?

1) I don't know anyone who makes 6 figures, most people I know make around $50k a year at max
2) even a $100k a year job doesn't provide enough income to afford housing in this city
3) My numbers may be off, but I remember reading somewhere that only 2% of metro Vancouver residents officially have an income of over $200k a year, thats 25 000 people, not enough to skew housing prices up
4) Most realters I've seen ads for seem to be asian or east indian, seen a lot of ads in chinese about real estate
5) too many parts of the city feel like they are hollowing out. To me a lot of neighbourhoods have too many homes for sale and the buyers don't even live in these houses
6) just plain demographics, the overseas born population in Vancouver is growing and the young are fleeing, half of my friends are planning on either leaving Vancouver or have already done so. Many have fled to Victoria, Kelowna, Chilliwack, Squamish, etc.

I feel as though Vancouver is a city in decline, as though our city is hollowing out and losing it's identity. Cost of housing is one thing, I don't care so much about the cost of housing as I do the consequences of it.

1) many businesses seem to be closing or having liquidation sales, many store fronts in downtown are "Now leasing" and have been that way for months.
2) empty communities are not liveable, and neighbourhoods where people do not engage with eachother are depressing.

I'm not leaving Vancouver, I'm young but stubborn enough to stay here even if it costs me more than it should, but many others do not think this way. I fear that if the housing market doesn't crash or correct and wages do not increase at a similar pace that Vancouver is heading for ghost town status. A city where not even large businesses will open up shop because they cannot find workers.

Thats all I'll say.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I feel as though Vancouver is a city in decline, as though our city is hollowing out and losing it's identity. Cost of housing is one thing, I don't care so much about the cost of housing as I do the consequences of it.

1) many businesses seem to be closing or having liquidation sales, many store fronts in downtown are "Now leasing" and have been that way for months.
2) empty communities are not liveable, and neighbourhoods where people do not engage with eachother are depressing.

I'm not leaving Vancouver, I'm young but stubborn enough to stay here even if it costs me more than it should, but many others do not think this way. I fear that if the housing market doesn't crash or correct and wages do not increase at a similar pace that Vancouver is heading for ghost town status. A city where not even large businesses will open up shop because they cannot find workers.

Thats all I'll say.

You sound like me last year. I refused to leave, but I was eventually forced to move back to Surrey after my scumbag landlord jacked up rent by $550 (this is illegal but no one gives a damn). Moving to Surrey was the best thing I have ever done. I have renewed hope of perhaps investing in a condo/apartment; some which are going for 179k for a 2 bedroom.

I got the best advice from a former social planner in the COV (he worked there from 1981-94). There is no bubble, and there is downward trend for housing. What we're seeing now is a product of globalization and the increase in unfettered capital across borders. This has been an issue for over 20 years, and nothing has really changed since.

His advice: Invest now- even if it is in Surrey. The area around Surrey Central is being heavily gentrified and some 10-15 year old apartments are selling for anywhere between 149k for 1 bedroom to 250k for a modern 2 bedroom.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I am starting to seriously believe that overseas investors really are the cause of our out of control housing market. Reasons I believe this?

1) I don't know anyone who makes 6 figures, most people I know make around $50k a year at max
2) even a $100k a year job doesn't provide enough income to afford housing in this city
3) My numbers may be off, but I remember reading somewhere that only 2% of metro Vancouver residents officially have an income of over $200k a year, thats 25 000 people, not enough to skew housing prices up
4) Most realters I've seen ads for seem to be asian or east indian, seen a lot of ads in chinese about real estate
5) too many parts of the city feel like they are hollowing out. To me a lot of neighbourhoods have too many homes for sale and the buyers don't even live in these houses
6) just plain demographics, the overseas born population in Vancouver is growing and the young are fleeing, half of my friends are planning on either leaving Vancouver or have already done so. Many have fled to Victoria, Kelowna, Chilliwack, Squamish, etc.

I feel as though Vancouver is a city in decline, as though our city is hollowing out and losing it's identity. Cost of housing is one thing, I don't care so much about the cost of housing as I do the consequences of it.

1) many businesses seem to be closing or having liquidation sales, many store fronts in downtown are "Now leasing" and have been that way for months.
2) empty communities are not liveable, and neighbourhoods where people do not engage with eachother are depressing.

I'm not leaving Vancouver, I'm young but stubborn enough to stay here even if it costs me more than it should, but many others do not think this way. I fear that if the housing market doesn't crash or correct and wages do not increase at a similar pace that Vancouver is heading for ghost town status. A city where not even large businesses will open up shop because they cannot find workers.

Thats all I'll say.

It took me this long to convince you?

I started this thread 5 years ago and people were all like "Ooh, how racist, this isn't a problem". Well now even the mainstream media has gotten around to throwing off PC 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 to report on it.

This is the the greatest threat to the region's liveability and I believe to the egalitarian nature of Canadian society. We have always been remarkable as a country for the relative lack of a class system compared to the USA and UK, but now we're importing a landed gentry, and one beholden to an autocratic, totalitarian regime at that.

Write your politicians folks, an outpouring of pressure is the only thing the spineless gits respond to.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It took me this long to convince you?

I started this thread 5 years ago and people were all like "Ooh, how racist, this isn't a problem". Well now even the mainstream media has gotten around to throwing off PC 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 to report on it.

This is the the greatest threat to the region's liveability and I believe to the egalitarian nature of Canadian society. We have always been remarkable as a country for the relative lack of a class system compared to the USA and UK, but now we're importing a landed gentry, and one beholden to an autocratic, totalitarian regime at that.

Write your politicians folks, an outpouring of pressure is the only thing the spineless gits respond to.

I said this to a friend of mine and he called me an anti-immigration racist.

The words I used were the following
"Many of these investors and immigrants from mainland china are brash and do not quite fit into the Canadian cultural norms."

I find that a lot of these immigrants and investors who come here are bringing with them a certain ideology or way of doing things that are detrimental to the health of our region. I find many are careless and do not care as much about their surroundings. Many also segregate themselves.

I'm completely fine with immigration but what is going on now needs to stop.
I greatly worry that the Canadian way of life is in serious risk of dying.

I have friends in Toronto and they tell me the same stories. Both Vancouver and Toronto, the largest anglo speaking Cities in Canada and the two largest centres of the creative economy are in serious danger of becoming economic basket cases. If these two cities go, the national economy will be very negatively impacted.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I am starting to seriously believe that overseas investors really are the cause of our out of control housing market. Reasons I believe this?

1) I don't know anyone who makes 6 figures, most people I know make around $50k a year at max
2) even a $100k a year job doesn't provide enough income to afford housing in this city
3) My numbers may be off, but I remember reading somewhere that only 2% of metro Vancouver residents officially have an income of over $200k a year, thats 25 000 people, not enough to skew housing prices up
4) Most realters I've seen ads for seem to be asian or east indian, seen a lot of ads in chinese about real estate
5) too many parts of the city feel like they are hollowing out. To me a lot of neighbourhoods have too many homes for sale and the buyers don't even live in these houses
6) just plain demographics, the overseas born population in Vancouver is growing and the young are fleeing, half of my friends are planning on either leaving Vancouver or have already done so. Many have fled to Victoria, Kelowna, Chilliwack, Squamish, etc.

I feel as though Vancouver is a city in decline, as though our city is hollowing out and losing it's identity. Cost of housing is one thing, I don't care so much about the cost of housing as I do the consequences of it.

1) many businesses seem to be closing or having liquidation sales, many store fronts in downtown are "Now leasing" and have been that way for months.
2) empty communities are not liveable, and neighbourhoods where people do not engage with eachother are depressing.

I'm not leaving Vancouver, I'm young but stubborn enough to stay here even if it costs me more than it should, but many others do not think this way. I fear that if the housing market doesn't crash or correct and wages do not increase at a similar pace that Vancouver is heading for ghost town status. A city where not even large businesses will open up shop because they cannot find workers.

Thats all I'll say.

One of my part time jobs was making videos for a few realtors in Metro-Vancouver before I moved to Japan.

My best client was one of the largest realtors in White Rock (selling everything from trailer homes to massive luxury homes).

Traditionally her clients have been a healthy mix of race proportionate to Metro-Vancouver and BC and many retirees, but over the last few years a massive chunk of the buyers have become mainland Chinese.

So much so that she is now struggling for the first time in decades. If you are not Chinese and speak fluent Mandarin, you are not worth even looking at for the clients.

They outbid everyone!

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I said this to a friend of mine and he called me an anti-immigration racist.

The words I used were the following
"Many of these investors and immigrants from mainland china are brash and do not quite fit into the Canadian cultural norms."

I find that a lot of these immigrants and investors who come here are bringing with them a certain ideology or way of doing things that are detrimental to the health of our region. I find many are careless and do not care as much about their surroundings. Many also segregate themselves.

I'm completely fine with immigration but what is going on now needs to stop.
I greatly worry that the Canadian way of life is in serious risk of dying.

I have friends in Toronto and they tell me the same stories. Both Vancouver and Toronto, the largest anglo speaking Cities in Canada and the two largest centres of the creative economy are in serious danger of becoming economic basket cases. If these two cities go, the national economy will be very negatively impacted.

For the most part I have to totally agree, I am fully aware that people of chinese descent have been an essential partof canadian culture for close to 200 years now(if not more) the people who came to canada from china prior to the 1980s came here because they wanted better opportunities then an oppressive government in their homeland could deliver and thats the same story that many immigrants of all descent s can say. my dad and his parents fled the oppressive Portuguese dictatorship in the 1950s, my moms side came from the Ukraine during the movement to the prairies 100 years ago and my aunt (by marriage) is of chinese descent whose family came here in the 50s aswell. All of which came here with not much but earned decent livings here in canada and are on the same economic level and can relate to eachother that way.

Fast forwsrd to today where the chinese coming here are predominantly incredibly rich and earned their living outside of canada and have contributed very little to our economy or our society as a whole. They cannot relate to most of us because we are trying to live here, not invest here. We have roots and know what it takes to maintain the very fabric of our city before it wears too thin and dumping too much money in one or two city areas is wearing them very thin. However this is of no relevance to someone who is looking to dump their money outside of china because the economy and housing market has tanked there already.

What most do not realize is that there are almost as many millionaires in china as the entire population of British Columbia so yes indeed, you can make the conclusion that chinese investors are having a detrimental effect on our housing market because canada is viewed as a safe and popular place to launder money, just look it up, its been all over the news lately.

[Bcasey25raptor]

I think part of the reason I've refused to believe it for so long is due to the fact I don't see Vancouver as all that special. I can think of dozens of cities around the world that if I were rich I'd prefer to invest in.

Why Vancouver? Why not Seattle, San Francisco, Melbourne, Montreal, etc?

Why is Vancouver so popular with asian investors? I just don't get it.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I think part of the reason I've refused to believe it for so long is due to the fact I don't see Vancouver as all that special. I can think of dozens of cities around the world that if I were rich I'd prefer to invest in.

Why Vancouver? Why not Seattle, San Francisco, Melbourne, Montreal, etc?

Why is Vancouver so popular with asian investors? I just don't get it.

it is quite ironic that you said this, because I just had dinner with several coworkers (many from different countries) and we were talking about the Chinese buying up land and driving up prices.

My co-worker from Australia (who is of Vietnamese decent, so PC people can struggle with the fact that they are not white) was saying that Mainland Chinese buying property in Melbourne has became a real problem recently.

Then my Japanese co-worker said that Hokkaido, Japan has very recently become another hot spot for Chinese money laundering, and it is expected that prices up there will begin to rise.

[Hourglass]

Well, we may be seeing a tapering off of the inflow of Mainland Chinese money into Vancouver. The Chinese economy is slowing, many state-owned companies are swimming in red ink and a lot of people were hurt in the stock market meltdown. Hong Kong -- also popular with PRC property investors -- has already seen a drop in property prices. Anecdotally, a friend in Hong Kong mentioned today that they'd heard the Chinese government has actually been warning foreign banks against providing mortgages to Mainland Chinese nationals looking to buy property. Sounds like a far-fetched rumor to me, but either way, the signs are pointing to a slowdown in Chinese investment in overseas property.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Well, we may be seeing a tapering off of the inflow of Mainland Chinese money into Vancouver. The Chinese economy is slowing, many state-owned companies are swimming in red ink and a lot of people were hurt in the stock market meltdown. Hong Kong -- also popular with PRC property investors -- has already seen a drop in property prices. Anecdotally, a friend in Hong Kong mentioned today that they'd heard the Chinese government has actually been warning foreign banks against providing mortgages to Mainland Chinese nationals looking to buy property. Sounds like a far-fetched rumor to me, but either way, the signs are pointing to a slowdown in Chinese investment in overseas property.

Or they will speed up as people panic and try to get out before the government cracks down to stop the flood of dirty money.

With the Canadian currency at historic lows you can bet foreign money will continue to come here to snap up "bargains".

[Vin]

Still need them to bankroll our cities for the incredible amount of spending. Just heard from the Downtown Vancouver Update thread that over 2000 subsidized units (each unit at $478,000) will be and are being built, amounting to more than $1bil, and pledged by the Feds, Province and City of Vancouver. Guess who will to pay for this? The Feds and Province need us for our income taxes, but they and the City, definitely need those Chinese investors to pay for the high property and sales taxes.

If we do not streamline and reduce the run-away spending this country, as well as what much of the developed world is experiencing, then the government will continue seeking the easy way out: getting the rich to come over to purchase and maintain properties. This country seriously needs to increase the production capacity in other non-property related industries, or alternatively, drastically reduce our government expenditure.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

"Refugees" simply means "people displaced from their home and country." Doesn't matter whether their home was a slum or a mansion.

I never said that ALL refugees need be poor,....but in this case they (the Middle Easterners) are fairly well off (having migrated to Vancouver as refugees)....the ultimate point here being that they too are fueling fast rising house prices.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Your relative is wrong. My brother is a CBSA officer in Toronto right now processing middle east refugees (they flew him there just to help), they are not pretending to be poor. The real estate racket in Vancouver is almost entirely Chinese.

In the late 70s there was a huge wave of rich Persians but they bought houses and came here to live, not to turn our city into the Cayman Islands.

Thanks for the correction. BTW, no one said here that anyone from the Middle East is "pretending to be poor" or that ALL refugees have to be poor but the general/majority image of the refugee today is one of being dispossessed (in cases where even the wealthy have to leave wealth behind and start all over).

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

there were also large numbers of wealthy middle-eastern "refugees" (ones driving luxury cars and giving exclusive residential addresses at registration time).

Caliplanner, you can forgive me for thinking you were saying that with the sentence above.

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I think part of the reason I've refused to believe it for so long is due to the fact I don't see Vancouver as all that special. I can think of dozens of cities around the world that if I were rich I'd prefer to invest in.

Why Vancouver? Why not Seattle, San Francisco, Melbourne, Montreal, etc?

Why is Vancouver so popular with asian investors? I just don't get it.

Low property taxes and no requirement to live here or help the local economy in any way.