Winnipeg Construction VIII

[bomberjet]

I know this is off topic from construction. But IMO, it's more about the nanny state, than wearing a helmet. You could make an argument that everything everybody does will cost the system in one way or another. Not necessarily healthcare.

[drew]

Originally Posted by esquire

On this bike helmet thing, for what it's worth, anyone with libertarian inclinations certainly wouldn't like the fact that socialized medicine is being used as an argument to support another perceived infringement of liberty.

Although in my view, it's a perfectly reasonable safety rule whether or not our health care system is even brought into the picture.

It should not be much of a surprise to anyone that living in Canada requires existing in a bit of a "nanny state".

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by biguc

There is nothing that makes me more angry than the flagrant fucking stupidity that streams out of people when we talk about tearing down the barricades. I get some of the parochial bullshit that goes on in this city: yes, it's scary that almost every other place on earth lets people buy booze from any store that wants to sell it, and we need the LC because God knows we're all feeble minded and racist and the stupid way things are done must be to protect at least some of us from ourselves. But we're talking about letting people cross the street.

That's it. Just let people cross the God damn street you fascists.

This sums up my view completely. I am beyond frustrated with the stupidity and narrow-mindedness of the "but what about my commute" crowd. You chose to live where you live, I want my intersection back.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by drew

It should not be much of a surprise to anyone that living in Canada requires existing in a bit of a "nanny state".

Of course, and i get that. The world is being widdled down into this bubble wrapped society. People are scared for their children to play outside, or join sports, because it's "unsafe". Then in the next breath it's kids are overweight, or staring at the screen all day. Well what do you want? Everything is unsafe.

I just don't need Selinger and Co telling me what to do with my kid. And I don't even have kids yet.

[bomberjet]

Lol it is rather funny the argument about people crossing the street. Like biguc said, let them cross the street.

[Urban recluse]

Yes. If you need to leave home a few minutes early or wait at a light 1 minute longer, that is not asking for one of your nuts.

[BigG]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Show suite now open; this is a decent project with color. A dozen of these around Waterfront would be great.

http://www.welofts.ca/contact-us/

I like this. They've taken a big leap to place it in that neighbourhood, but kudos to them for taking steps in revitalizing the area. It actually is a very liveable neighbourhood with all amenities needed without using a car.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by windypeg

I don't think anyone believes P&M is suddenly going to look like times square after it's opened. But it's an embarrassment that people walking around our most prominent intersection are forced down a dirty, drab stairway into a drab underground hole that hasn't aged well. The entrances have aged horribly, the staircases near Richardson reeks like cigarettes all the time and the one by 201 portage smells like pee. At the very least the building owners should have to put a little money into upkeep.

But it's a silly argument because there's really no downside to opening it. Traffic already stops for the lights. Admittedly I'm no traffic engineer but I really can't see this having much of an effect. Does P&M as it is now really flow that much more smoothly than portage & memorial or other similar intersections that have crossings? Why not let people cross considering there's really no downside?

Yes, there were commonly quoted stats at the time the barriers went up that showed a major improvement in traffic flow -- they didn't just randomly pull this idea out of their hat. Maybe things have changed since the 1970s but I doubt that it could be anything but worse today.

If the entrances to the underground are the problem, which I agree they are, then fix them. That's what an imaginative city would do -- take an interesting feature of downtown (the underground thing at P&M) and make it work.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Yes, there were commonly quoted stats at the time the barriers went up that showed a major improvement in traffic flow -- they didn't just randomly pull this idea out of their hat. Maybe things have changed since the 1970s but I doubt that it could be anything but worse today.

If the entrances to the underground are the problem, which I agree they are, then fix them. That's what an imaginative city would do -- take an interesting feature of downtown (the underground thing at P&M) and make it work.

I'm sure not allowing pedestrians to cross at many intersections would improve traffic flow. Not sure that should be a city's main concern.

[buzzg]

Can someone make a P&M thread? This debate is going to go on forever.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Yes, there were commonly quoted stats at the time the barriers went up that showed a major improvement in traffic flow -- they didn't just randomly pull this idea out of their hat. Maybe things have changed since the 1970s but I doubt that it could be anything but worse today.

If the entrances to the underground are the problem, which I agree they are, then fix them. That's what an imaginative city would do -- take an interesting feature of downtown (the underground thing at P&M) and make it work.

Bolded. Yup throw the baby out with the bathwater, it's all or nothing around here. Opening P & M for the sake of opening P & M for the sake of opening it....... so 5 people can cross it per day makes so much sense.

[oftheMoon]

Can anyone with a mobility issue chime in on navigating the underground of Portage & Main as opposed to crossing it at street level like any other intersection?

I think that would be an interesting perspective.

[CoryB]

The issue with the entrances needing upkeep are those are likely city owned and maintained. The entrances to the underground which are building owned are actually inside the buildings.

--

Originally Posted by oftheMoon

Can anyone with a mobility issue chime in on navigating the underground of Portage & Main as opposed to crossing it at street level like any other intersection?

I think that would be an interesting perspective.

It is possible but can be very hit and miss. As could be expected you need to use elevators/lifts to go up and down the changes in elevation. It is not uncommon for one of those to be out of service. This is a matter of upkeep similar to the entrances though.

[drew]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Bolded. Yup throw the baby out with the bathwater, it's all or nothing around here. Opening P & M for the sake of opening P & M for the sake of opening it....... so 5 people can cross it per day makes so much sense.

How does opening up P&M prevent the city from sprucing up the sidewalk public access entrances? Hey, maybe they can do BOTH?

Geez. We are just talking about letting people cross the street. This isn't some sort of revolutionary change to the City.

Good grief.

[oftheMoon]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The issue with the entrances needing upkeep are those are likely city owned and maintained. The entrances to the underground which are building owned are actually inside the buildings.

--



It is possible but can be very hit and miss. As could be expected you need to use elevators/lifts to go up and down the changes in elevation. It is not uncommon for one of those to be out of service. This is a matter of upkeep similar to the entrances though.

Are there elevators/lifts on all 4 corners? Not including inside Richardson, 201 Portage or BMO as those buildings are not open 24 hours.

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

This sums up my view completely. I am beyond frustrated with the stupidity and narrow-mindedness of the "but what about my commute" crowd. You chose to live where you live, I want my intersection back.

ditto

[esquire]

Originally Posted by oftheMoon

Are there elevators/lifts on all 4 corners? Not including inside Richardson, 201 Portage or BMO as those buildings are not open 24 hours.

There are, but it's a bit of a pain for anyone in a wheelchair, for instance. Say you're at Main and Pioneer and you want to go to 201 Portage... you face the following challenges:

-Enter MTS Place, take a lift to go up some stairs to the main lobby
-Take an elevator down to the concourse level
-Then a shorter lift go down to the actual Portage and Main circus
-Small ramps to get to 201 Portage
-Lift to get past the dip leading to 201 Portage
-Elevator to the 201 Portage lobby

It's like 5 sets of lifts/elevators. Ridiculous.

[cllew]

Problem was when all of the surrounding buildings were being done there was no planning on a underground system. I don't think the Bank of Montreal architects ever thought of something like that would ever happen.

The reason the "circus" is so low is it gave clearance to most of the underground infrastructure in the Portage and Main area. The lowest thing is the covered sewer pipe that is exposed running from north to south in the ceiling by the TD Bank

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by oftheMoon

Are there elevators/lifts on all 4 corners? Not including inside Richardson, 201 Portage or BMO as those buildings are not open 24 hours.

The more important question to be asking is if the circus itself is even open over night.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Bolded. Yup throw the baby out with the bathwater, it's all or nothing around here. Opening P & M for the sake of opening P & M for the sake of opening it....... so 5 people can cross it per day makes so much sense.

During the day all the adjacent intersections to the north, south and west probably have more people than that cross every minute or two.