Tempe Development Thread

[PHX31]

Is there a rendering of the new dorm?

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Is there a rendering of the new dorm?

http://www.statepress.com/article/2016/01/asu-palo-verde-main-dorm-gets-upgrade

[MegaBass]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Is there a rendering of the new dorm?

Few more renderings on ASU Campus tour site. Didn't want to post them on here cus of the 4700x3000 size.

Speaking of Vista del Sol, I wonder if Walmart on Campus is/will be one of the company's 269 store closings. Don't forget space at University House too on 5th. Haven't been around that area much but looks like that BBQ place closed? A lot of vacancy there too.

[PHX31]

/\Thanks. Last I looked on ASU's website there weren't any.

[PHXFlyer11]

Maxwell was pulled from the DRC agenda for the 26th. Damn it, really wanted to see renderings.

[muertecaza]

Details for the "Maxwell at Tempe" have surfaced in the minutes from the most recent Historical Preservation Commission meeting. As some here deduced, it will be student housing, and classroom office and amenity space for the University of Mary. Kind of disappointing, but the plans are actually for TWO towers, which is interesting, and it maintains retail on College, and adds retail to 7th St. The Historical Preservation Commission staff report is here:

http://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=38574

Looks like it got Historical Preservation Commission approval, but it has been pulled from the DRC agenda for whatever reason.











There aren't any really great renders of current plans, so hard to tell at this point, but it does feel a little too similar to the Hub.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Details for the "Maxwell at Tempe" have surfaced in the minutes from the most recent Historical Preservation Commission meeting. As some here deduced, it will be student housing, and classroom office and amenity space for the University of Mary. Kind of disappointing, but the plans are actually for TWO towers, which is interesting, and it maintains retail on College, and adds retail to 7th St. The Historical Preservation Commission staff report is here:

http://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=38574

Looks like it got Historical Preservation Commission approval, but it has been pulled from the DRC agenda for whatever reason.











There aren't any really great renders of current plans, so hard to tell at this point, but it does feel a little too similar to the Hub.

Holy 🞵🞵🞵🞵@!

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Details for the "Maxwell at Tempe" have surfaced in the minutes from the most recent Historical Preservation Commission meeting. As some here deduced, it will be student housing, and classroom office and amenity space for the University of Mary. Kind of disappointing, but the plans are actually for TWO towers, which is interesting, and it maintains retail on College, and adds retail to 7th St. The Historical Preservation Commission staff report is here:

http://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=38574

Looks like it got Historical Preservation Commission approval, but it has been pulled from the DRC agenda for whatever reason.











There aren't any really great renders of current plans, so hard to tell at this point, but it does feel a little too similar to the Hub.

Thanks for finding this! I think this is an outstanding project! The church owns the land, so I can't imagine a church putting forth a better project than this! Hope this happens!

[Jjs5056]

AFAIK, the Church did not own the land where the current retail strip sits. If that were the case, their previous proposal - which included a highrise dormitory - would not have been designed to fit all uses onto the land south of the alleyway. Their purchase of that building/site had to have been fairly recent, especially considering that the tenants were notified just recently that their leases would be let to expire/be terminated. Given the rate at which land is being purchased and developed in Tempe, I'd say there's MUCH better to have hoped for at this intersection. Like, it seems people are critical of projects but only until they reach a certain height, and then all of a sudden, they are off limits. Sure, two 200' towers will look nice book-ending College Avenue, but if 7S' two phases are both built, that will be moot as its 3 towers will largely block the ones built here anyway.

I'll try to keep this as short as possible. Apache Boulevard - the slum of Tempe until 2008 - is now lined with student housing and luxury apartments, out of reach for the lower/lower-middle class residents who lived in these areas and should have been able to take advantage of new affordable TOD that provided access to transit and walkable services. The entire lakefront, now extending to the north side of 1st Street, is being transformed into condos and apartments with the highest price-tags in town.

If you'd like to see Tempe turn into something other than a small-town suburb with a few big name employers taking advantage of the biggest school in the nation, with a real downtown anchored by the strength of the Valley's most recognizable strip of contiguous, sometimes historic, retail on Mill Avenue, but that extends from Farmer to College, I'd love to hear how you envision that transformation occurring if the only land available for dense residential projects that are affordable to the people who serve as the backbone to any true downtown - government workers, professors from ASU, workers from Marina Heights and HFL, etc. - is being developed for students, who not only have a lower disposable income, but add an unreliable seasonality to the local retail market, and are basically a sure-fire way to repel a majority of those in the 'backbone' category from living anywhere nearby?

One needs to only read the reviews of W6 and 922 Place to see why student housing doesn't offer a glowing look into the positive attributes that come with centralized living. And, with these two towers AND a 20-story student housing tower planned adjacent on the corner of Forrest, one has to wonder about the viability of 7S - the type of project that WOULD force Tempe to grow up if built on all of these lots.

Student housing is necessary in a college town. I hated the fact that I had to move to an apartment and drive to campus after by freshman year in Manzanita, and could understand why there was such a high drop in retention from year 1 to year 2. I could understand why neighborhoods felt that investors renting out homes to students was bad for their community and for Tempe. But, ASU's response has been so typical of the way they've acted as "partners" in both Tempe and Phoenix. Instead of replacing aging dorms or building on empty land across campus, it took advantage of a boom in the rental market and let private developers take care of that retention problem, while letting them pitch the PR story of how they are helping restore Tempe's neighborhoods, and avoid the negative PR of bottles and bodies being tossed over balconies - those aren't their dorms, you know. And, they can do all this without asking for a penny from the BoR. Real dorms - with RAs, quiet hours, GPA requirements... those are what were needed on the Tempe campus for upper classmen. The retention rate may have increased, since it had nowhere to go but up, but I can't imagine that the majority of students would be far likelier to take their academics seriously in a study hall vs. a roof-top pool.

[Jjs5056]

A healthy city is one where there is variety. Just like we wish for there to be a mix of 9-5, 11-10, and 24-hour businesses to keep streets active, a variety of housing makes a city and its streets vibrant. If you aren't a student or can't afford the average price of $1,300 for a 1BR at Hanover, or if the place becomes fully leased, you have no options to live in downtown Tempe. I have no problem with the lakefront being lined with luxury projects - I guess I just don't see what the marketing objective was in renaming the Mill Ave District, or touting Block 12 as the start of ASU's commitment to using its projects on the edge of downtown to transition between the two, if College Ave were going to eventually be filled end-to-end with University uses (Studios 5c being the sole exception). Several higher-end restaurants opened in anticipation/in response to this marketing, under the assumption that College Ave was, in fact, downtown Tempe. But, several have already closed, and how are Postino, Snooze, and any others supposed to survive without plans to add ANY year-round residents in walking distance?

People have talked up Tempe for years like it has always been just around the corner from some sort of cosmopolitan makeover. But, it just isn't going to happen. A suburban office park nice enough for Plano, TX, next to the only real body of water in the metro area looks great flying into Sky Harbor. But, downtown Tempe, which is now really Myrtle - Farmer, University - 1st Street/The Butte, isn't going to evolve into anything appealing to more than those who just turned 21. Maple-Ash will continue to densify and so I'm sure things like Farmers Markets, etc. will continue to organically organize, but these things aren't unique to Tempe - they are national trends. Compared to other national cities with a University presence, Tempe simply doesn't compare. Others have blocks and blocks of buildings no less impressive than Mill Ave, and they are filled by businesses that usually are what make college cities attractive to more than students- independent bookstores, large coffee houses, vintage stores, markets, and even chains that make living in that downtown possible.

I know I'm negative and annoying; I don't know if it's that Phoenix has finally attracted enough investment that its potential is worth paying attention to, or that Tempe has just screwed up one too many times, but it feels lame checking an agenda for a random 4-story project in a town of 50,000 students, when smaller cities and colleges have been building tall, dense, mixed-use buildings all decade. I guess I also thought 100 Mill and 7S were the type of projects that were going to fill in the gaps and balance the Zuma Grillz and Loco Patrons with more mature retail and fill in streetscapes like 2nd Street, 7th Street, and Rio Salado in accordance to the 'beyond Mill' theme. But, now, it looks as though Rio/Mill will simply be an extension of the lakefront vs. downtown and that 7S is unlikely to be built.

[Jjs5056]

Last post: the renderings look great with all of that active retail, but let's get real here- retail shopping has been in downtown Tempe since TMP opened. If Here on the Corner decides to reopen in this project, that'd be a huge positive for what will undoubtedly be yet another student housing project filled with fast/fast-casual lunch restaurants or coffee shops. Who is going to open a store on a block that is filled with residents who will leave for 1/3 - 1/4 of the year aside from chain restaurants? In the end, it's the City's fault for letting ASU play real estate developer despite the impact on land values and market demand. The Stadium District will of course compete directly with downtown - any employer who chooses office space in that District is passing up the chance at filling in one of downtown's vacancies, or developing a commercial project. The insular-facing retail will ruin the chances of streets like Rural and University from becoming more pedestrian-friendly in the future when high capacity transit is launched. And, as with TMP, any business that fills that retail space is one less business downtown. The City got screwed with ASU pretending that College Ave and Block 12 were priorities for them- they weren't and aren't. It needed a new engineering dorm and to dissipate demand for the existing bookstore, and so it built a lowrise that houses both and little else.

Filling every last development site with market rate/condo projects was the only way downtown was ever going to recover from TMP opening. I attended ASU at the height of Mill's "corporatization," and Mill Ave then provided a much more viable living experience than it does today. And, among the chains were several local businesses: Borders, American Apparel, Saasi, Coffee Plantation, Abercrombie, Sunglass Hut, Z Gallerie, Divaz, So-Oh, Swell, Loft-a-Go-Go, Urban Angelz, The Body Shop, Fascinations. Mill's retail is now limited to Divaz, Pitaya, Campus Sports, Urban Outfitters, CVS, and TWO smoke shops. While Berkeley has a larger, wealthier population outside the University, its enrollment is more than 10,000 students less than ASU and I imagine its location makes retail extremely competitive. Yet, it has a Target Express, Walgreens, Staples, Radio Shack, FedEx, Game Stop, CVS, GNC, 24 Hour Fitness, and UPS among the dozens of other local stores. Between College Ave, 5th St, and Mill, Tempe should have no issues with retailers. 5th Street is a patchwork of usable space, however, and even the great TCC is half-vacant. With apartments above and students at UH across the street, a Target Express could have done well at a renovated Towers, and with the incubator going into the former PAC on Forrest, a bookstore (Changing Hands?) would have also been great on the northwest corner. With continuous retail, maybe both the TCC and the Residence Inn might be filled?

Without TMP, the former Borders at the Brickyard and all of the Gateway building would have all been great places for shops. Before choosing the malls, an H&M inside the old Borders would have been great, and a Fresh n Easy would have been perfect for the corner of Gateway on the 3rd St/Mill LRT station. Otherwise, some sort of destination like an LGO Market concept would have been a better use of that spot than a bar. WRT College Ave, UH should have been integrated into the Stadium District; a large Nike store on the corner of Veterans Way/5th; Lulu Lemon, GNC, healthy dining spots, and even a Crossfit/Pure Barre would have made sense. But, alas, the City continues to make odd and/or bad decisions. Not only was retail driven away, but so are projects like the Aquarium or Copper Blues/Improv. I understand its a private market, but a govt can provide incentives and otherwise encourage decisions that create the best return. An Aquarium would have diversified downtown's appeal and been a great lakeside or Mill/Uni addition. Copper Blues+Improv would have brought more 'mature' nightlife venues to Mill, and fit perfectly on either the 2nd floor of the Brickyard or in the old Hooters (or even taking over the 2nd floor of the Foundation building on College). Now there's the plan for an Alamo Drafthouse on Baseline and the Arts Plan calling for an arts district in South Tempe or along Miller Road? But, hey, at least they have the DRC to shorten projects like Crescent Rio and to make sure additional parking floors are added to garages along the streetcar route.

[azsunsurfer]

Thanks Bernie....how about just let the free market work.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

AFAIK, the Church did not own the land where the current retail strip sits. If that were the case, their previous proposal - which included a highrise dormitory - would not have been designed to fit all uses onto the land south of the alleyway. Their purchase of that building/site had to have been fairly recent, especially considering that the tenants were notified just recently that their leases would be let to expire/be terminated.

The Church still doesn't own the land. The parcels fronting 7th St. are owned by a corporation that has owned them since the 70s, and the parcel fronting College is owned by an LLC with a deed dated in 2013. So no consoling ourselves with assuming this is the "best we could get" from land owned by the Catholic church.

I'll try to keep this as short as possible.

Haha nice try.

Apache Boulevard - the slum of Tempe until 2008 - is now lined with student housing and luxury apartments, out of reach for the lower/lower-middle class residents who lived in these areas and should have been able to take advantage of new affordable TOD that provided access to transit and walkable services.

Not entirely--I think the one that is under construction right by the Apache/101 light rail stop is senior-oriented housing that should be relatively affordable. There's also McClintock Station planned right next to Tempe Metro (http://www.tempe.gov/Home/ShowDocument?id=32928), which I don't believe is luxury or student housing. And there are still a looooooooooooot of blighted, fenced off boarded up motels and trailer parks left to be redeveloped. I don't think Apache has reached its final form, and could still very well fulfill the promise of affordable (in the sense of affordable to Joe Schmos, not in the sense of subsidized housing) TOD.

If you'd like to see Tempe turn into something other than a small-town suburb with a few big name employers taking advantage of the biggest school in the nation, with a real downtown anchored by the strength of the Valley's most recognizable strip of contiguous, sometimes historic, retail on Mill Avenue, but that extends from Farmer to College, I'd love to hear how you envision that transformation occurring if the only land available for dense residential projects that are affordable to the people who serve as the backbone to any true downtown - government workers, professors from ASU, workers from Marina Heights and HFL, etc. - is being developed for students, who not only have a lower disposable income, but add an unreliable seasonality to the local retail market, and are basically a sure-fire way to repel a majority of those in the 'backbone' category from living anywhere nearby?

Despite the above quibbles, I'm with you with being somewhat disappointed that the Newman Center's former University of Mary plan has been expanded to take up precious real estate along College/7th. I just don't know the answer for Tempe to encourage development with middle of the road prices/rents that can encourage non-seasonal residents and won't get overrun with College students. I guess maybe condo projects that have strict Association rules that bar or seriously restrict using them as rentals?

I did a little ham-handed googling and found this article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/16/AR2009081601839_2.html) that talks about the D.C. zoning board refusing to allow George Washington University to enact a 10 year plan, increase enrollment or begin any new construction projects until the University found a way to get more than 70% of its students living on campus. Apparently the University was able to do that. So there must be a way. But I don't know what the City of Tempe's power and/or inclination to go to war with ASU is on these issues.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

Thanks Bernie....how about just let the free market work.

Well, part of my point is that the free market has been skewed by ASU's lack of investment in building its own student housing on-campus. There is a demand in Tempe for both student housing AND market rate apartments; letting a few parcels along a city street be used for non-University purposes isn't asking for much in terms of socialism. ASU can build dorms on-campus into the future, whereas downtown has limited land for market rate/owner-occupied projects.

muertecaza: Other developers - such as 7S and Hanover - have enacted policies to ensure tenants are non-students: no co-signers allowed, proof of income, and Hanover even outright requires you to be 23+. So, options are available and seem to be wanted by the City who has encouraged any rentals to be built up to condo standard for future conversion.

[ASUSunDevil]

'Likely' to be Tempe for the Coyotes. I'm assuming the arena would be built on the Karsten land (SE corner of Rural and Rio)?

http://www.abc15.com/sports/sports-blogs...ls-likely-to-create-joint-arena-in-tempe

[MegaBass]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

'Likely' to be Tempe for the Coyotes. I'm assuming the arena would be built on the Karsten land (SE corner of Rural and Rio)?

http://www.abc15.com/sports/sports-blogs...ls-likely-to-create-joint-arena-in-tempe

Maybe at 'Events Venue' or east of Verde Dickey East Athletic Village (softball stadium, basketball facility and soccer stadium). Note the wrestling and gymnastics facilities are not shown in the rendering above. Perhaps they'll cluster them all by new tennis and track and field facilities? Also the plans to move swimming program away from Mona Plummer.

[plinko]

^You realize that the above plan is 'preliminary' and thus likely to substantially change over time, right? Particularly if a pro sports arena came along looking for a piece of land?

It's funny, I could always picture the Coyotes in Tempe, but never the Suns.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by MegaBass

Maybe at 'Events Venue' or east of Verde Dickey East Athletic Village (softball stadium, basketball facility and soccer stadium). Note the wrestling and gymnastics facilities are not shown in the rendering above. Perhaps they'll cluster them all by new tennis and track and field facilities? Also the plans to move swimming program away from Mona Plummer.

It does feel like the former fraternity row would be a pretty good place for an arena--right off the lightrail, reasonably close to freeway, and completing a pretty neat stadium line up with Kush and Wells Fargo. Still not sure how I feel about Tempe v. Phoenix for the 'yotes, but I could probably be talked into a stadium here.



A lot of empty dirt there right now.

[Jjs5056]

In a recent City of Tempe meeting, the council mentioned that they were going to be RFPing one or both of the Rural/Rio intersections. I don't know whether that makes the location less (since they are wanting it to go to a private developer) or more (since they might see the Coyotes are more attractive) plausible, but thought I would throw it out there.

Unfortunately, I feel like the project will be rushed to accommodate the Coyotes and will waste a lot of its potential. Am I understanding correctly that this will be used solely for the Coyotes and ASU Hockey? If limited in use to such a small window during the year, I hope it is built in one of those 'athletic areas,' or basically in any place in which they can wrap the thing in other buildings. Seeing as USAC once served basketball, hockey, and events, and ASU has a need to serve all 3 in Tempe, it seems like there should have been design enhancements made by this time that make it possible to combine the 3 more effectively than USAC did in 1990. Adding both uses would make the arena in-use all year long, is more sustainable, and would be a great project for the lake parcels:

- It'd be the most high-profile project in the District, as far as we know; no other facility has something like a sports franchise attached to it. Placing it adjacent to the city's most impressive geographic feature, where the year-long attendees to the events and games held throughout the year would walk around before/after, with full highway and airline visibility seems perfect.
- Walkable from the last streetcar stop and along the future expansion.
- Rural is planned for BRT in the future, so some sort of multi-modal transit center would likely be built nearby.

Since ASU and Tempe still have a stake in the University and Mill project, why is it being assumed that the location will definitely be within the Stadium District? I think it would be short-sighted to not also try to use this 'win' to develop a project that could also involve a convention center and hotel. Those could be added in Phase II on Uni/Mill easily, or on the other side of Rural (and a convention center/hotel project on the lake would be awesome if the architecture came close to TCA).

[PHXFlyer11]

I think the arena will definitely be in the Athletic district. How could it not be? At this point it would be too contradictory to have the newest athletics facility not located within the new district.

I'd like to see them place it at the SEC of Rio Salado and Rural, where Packard Stadium is today. That would spur development on the remaining three corners of that intersection and in my opinion would have the greatest ROI. Plus, I don't believe new parking would have to be built. Although I'm not sure what would happen if ASU Football and the Yotes played on the same night.