Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[Dominion301]

Now that sun season is in full swing, especially on Saturdays, I decided to check YOW's online FIDS to see all the flights heading south for tomorrow and noticed something strange:
06:45 Jan.16 SWG22 Ft Lauderdale Sunwing Airlines On Time 20

How can a transborder flight possibly depart from Gate 20. I thought gate 14 (via the movable glass wall) was the highest numbered gate a transborder flight could depart from? Is it possible that Sunwing are not pre-clearning this flight at YOW or that the FIDS will be updated by tomorrow morning?

Edit: nevermind, the FIDS have now been updated to have WG22 depart from gate 14. PD246 is now assigned to 20.

[YOWflier]

Dominion, your initial question was valid.

The answer is yes. Sunwing flights to Fort Lauderdale do not pre-clear US customs in Ottawa. The flight arrives at T4 in FLL and passengers clear customs there.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

The answer is yes. Sunwing flights to Fort Lauderdale do not pre-clear US customs in Ottawa. The flight arrives at T4 in FLL and passengers clear customs there.

Curiosity has got the better of me.... why?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Curiosity has got the better of me.... why?

It must be cheaper?

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

It must be cheaper?

thought of that... so do airlines have to pay to pre-clear? or are some gates more expensive than others?

still confused

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

It must be cheaper?

That's about the only plausible explanation. It's not like Sunwing need to worry about connections upon arrival in FLL.

On a separate note, WS appear about ready to announce their summer 2016 schedule. Not much for YOW as usual...even less than last summer. YOW-YYZ increases to 10x/day, but 7 of the 10 flights are now going to be on Encore, so even with the frequency increase, it's a capacity cut. The morning YOW-YYC and some 0700 YOW-YYZ will be upgauged to a 738. This will be the first WS 738 scheduled operations at YOW in about a decade. The 1 stop to LGW via YYT is still showing. I check to see if the likes of YFC or YYG might get new Encore nonstops out of YOW and nothing. So if there's anything beyond the slight overall capacity reduction with 1 additional frequency, I'll be shocked.

Out of YYZ, they're adding LAX and a new city BNA (on Q400s) and who knows what else.

EDIT: It turns out the full summer schedule hadn't been loaded last night (and still isn't based on what's on WS' website). Now: "Starting June 15, 2016, flights operating between Toronto and Ottawa as well as Toronto and Montreal will operate 12 times each daily. Toronto and Fredericton will have a total of three daily flights as of March 5, 2016. Three daily flights between Toronto and Boston will begin March 15. With additional service between Ottawa and Halifax there will be a total of three daily flights between the cities as of March 5, 2016. These new flights offer greater flexibility for business travellers who want same-day return trips and more options during peak morning and evening travel periods. Flights are available for purchase starting January 31, 2016." So assuming 9 / 12 YOW-YYZ flights and 2/3 YOW-YHZ flights are Q400s, YOW's WS capacity will be roughly even with last year, but should produce higher load factors with more Q400s in the mix.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/westjet-adds-to-toronto-hub-566435601.html

[Dominion301]

This morning at approx. 0740 I spotted a CRJ taking off from rwy 32 in Skywest house colours. Since there are only a couple of house colour livery CRJs, it's a rare sight.

[daud]

Originally Posted by VaskoYOW

For what it's worth, I was on the AC839 flight on Monday the 8th, and the load factor was about 96%
Two in economy and 5 in executive first, so I don't get how Air Canada is cutting completely the YOW-FRA route in the winter months...we even had A330-300 servicing the route this past May. I've taken this route 6-7 times all in the summer but every time the load factor was almost completely full, if not 100%
Unless Air France/KLM come to YOW, Air Canada could do anything. We need more international competition to have a chance but unfortunatelly YUL is so close to us and we pay the price for that.

Yep, having YUL so close is a blessing and a curse. I'm travelling to BCN this summer-non stop from YUL and flying back from NCE non-stop. Its fantastic, but if I remember correctly, flights out of Ottawa were more expensive and included transfers. YOu can't get from the capital of Canada to anywhere in France non-stop. Had there been more options like YOW- CDG we totally would have flown out of Ottawa and reconfigured our vacation.

[YOWflier]

You do realize that your travels to/from Montreal constitute transfers, right? Personally, I'd sooner make my transfers via air in Europe. This is especially beneficial upon returning when you land and are 20 min from home, instead of having a hideous 2 hour bus ride after an 8 hour transatlantic flight.

Furthermore, your nonstop travels to BCN and NCE are either on Air Transat or Air Canada Rouge. These represent sub par services when compared to a mainline airline. Flying from Ottawa you get real Air Canada.

Finally, flying as you are may save you a few bucks but is damaging to our local airport and economy. Many people don't care about that, but I do.

[ars]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

You do realize that your travels to/from Montreal constitute transfers, right? Personally, I'd sooner make my transfers via air in Europe. This is especially beneficial upon returning when you land and are 20 min from home, instead of having a hideous 2 hour bus ride after an 8 hour transatlantic flight.

Furthermore, your nonstop travels to BCN and NCE are either on Air Transat or Air Canada Rouge. These represent sub par services when compared to a mainline airline. Flying from Ottawa you get real Air Canada.

Finally, flying as you are may save you a few bucks but is damaging to our local airport and economy. Many people don't care about that, but I do.

Totally agree with you, would rather fly in and out of YOW rather than bus to and from XDS any day, even if I save a couple hundred dollars.

In general, I don't mind busing to YUL from XDS, but for the return I always try to find an itinerary that will fly me into YOW.

Having YUL nearby really sucks for Ottawa, especially since I don't find flying out of YUL as pleasant an experience as flying out of YOW.

[daud]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

You do realize that your travels to/from Montreal constitute transfers, right? Personally, I'd sooner make my transfers via air in Europe. This is especially beneficial upon returning when you land and are 20 min from home, instead of having a hideous 2 hour bus ride after an 8 hour transatlantic flight.

Furthermore, your nonstop travels to BCN and NCE are either on Air Transat or Air Canada Rouge. These represent sub par services when compared to a mainline airline. Flying from Ottawa you get real Air Canada.

Finally, flying as you are may save you a few bucks but is damaging to our local airport and economy. Many people don't care about that, but I do.

I use YOW as much as I can, travel to the US often for work and always opt for a transfer in the US vs Toronto. YOW is awesome. I don't mind a transfer if it makes sense and I do my best to choose an option to avoid getting sucked into the Pearson Borg. Trust me I'm a big supporter of our airport but in this case we are travelling with young children and the options out of YOW did not make sense from a price or time perspective.

I would easily pay more even to get less and fly out of YOW anytime-but there are limits to that.

[YOWflier]

I can certainly empathize with the family situation and the monetary savings that can sometimes be realized. Hundreds of dollars in savings is a big deal.

But sometimes savings can't be measured only in dollars and cents. I once flew Sunwing to Florida because the price vs. AC or WJ was to good to pass up. The flight departed really early and didn't preclear US customs. Upon arrival we were faced with about a 90 min wait for customs...with a couple of very tired, grumpy and impatient children. Those 90 min were pure misery...no amount of money made up for them.

[daud]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

I can certainly empathize with the family situation and the monetary savings that can sometimes be realized. Hundreds of dollars in savings is a big deal.

But sometimes savings can't be measured only in dollars and cents. I once flew Sunwing to Florida because the price vs. AC or WJ was to good to pass up. The flight departed really early and didn't preclear US customs. Upon arrival we were faced with about a 90 min wait for customs...with a couple of very tired, grumpy and impatient children. Those 90 min were pure misery...no amount of money made up for them.

Yes, point taken-on this and on the economic issue. It does matter-I'm in the conventions market and completely understand the importance of our airport.

[YOWhopeful]

Even when you try to support airlines flying into YOW, it can be difficult. I am fly YOW PHX Feb 24 to 28. I booked with Delta for the morning flight out of Ottawa through DTW and on to PHX. They emailed me last week to tell me I had been switched to Westjet out of Ottawa through Toronto on the 24th because the Delta morning flight had been cancelled (6 weeks in advance). I paid around $1100 for this round trip to avoid taking Westjet and going through Pearson, which on the Delta website was a $840 flight with WS colours. Thanfully I got a $240 credit to use on a future Delta flight. What more can I do to support US airlines in Ottawa? Even when you pay extra, they finda way to shunt you through Pearson. Is that our future?

[YOWflier]

I hear ya. Stuff just happens sometimes....

By the way, what you've experienced is called an "involuntary itinerary change", and you are not obliged to accept their amended proposal. You have every right to call up delta and request a new itinerary that suits you better (later flight, different routing, etc.)

I'll conclude by saying that it wasn't my intention to pick on anyone specifically. Obviously there are millions of factors that people must consider when making purchases...just trying to remind that the grass isn't always greener on the other side, provide some knowledge when I can, and encourage people to support the local situation if they have the capacity to do so.

Like my coworker who recently booked a flight to Cuba. When he told me he was flying to Holguin via Montreal, I asked why he didn't fly nonstop from Ottawa. He responded by complaining there was no such flight, I confirmed there was (new service on AC), and in his surprise he went and searched and booked it.

Sometimes people just don't know...

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by daud

Yep, having YUL so close is a blessing and a curse. I'm travelling to BCN this summer-non stop from YUL and flying back from NCE non-stop. Its fantastic, but if I remember correctly, flights out of Ottawa were more expensive and included transfers. YOu can't get from the capital of Canada to anywhere in France non-stop. Had there been more options like YOW- CDG we totally would have flown out of Ottawa and reconfigured our vacation.

I know eh it's sad that Canada's Capital and the city with the 3rd largest Francophone population in North America, can't even have one measly summer-seasonal nonstop or even 1-stop flight per week to CDG...especially given that YHZ, YYC and YVR all have at least 1 weekly direct or nonstop flight to CDG. It's not like the demand isn't there, it's just that 100,000 YOW-CDG pax per year drive or take that dreaded bus to YUL. It's the reason why TS could care less about serving YOW in the summer...and used to completely ignore YOW even YOW-south in the winter but with all the YOW-Sun competition nowadays, about 12 years ago they realized they couldn't brainwash most people into driving to YUL before flying south anymore.

The demand's there for year-round YOW-FRA (if there weren't, we wouldn't be seeing an A330 this summer), but having no YOW-FRA winter service pumps up the loads on YYZ-FRA and YUL-FRA. Of the 8 YOW-FRA flights I've taken, I've never had a load lower than 90%.

New airline at YOW?
On a separate note, a new 'airline' wants to enter the YOW-YFB marketplace. Starting May 6th, get ready for some new old-time 732 action with twice weekly Nolinor service with a new charter outfit called FlySarvaq. Hope they can bring down YOW-YFB fares without hurting 7F & 5T. The thing is though, this sounds a lot like New Leaf...but if they act as a tour operator and do not brand the Nolinor aircraft in any way, I can see this 'flying' much in the way tour operators like Sunquest used to charter Skyservice.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/new...ttawa-iqaluit-and-halifax-566923951.html

http://flysarvaq.com/

[McC]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

it's just that 100,000 YOW-CDG pax per year drive or take that dreaded bus to YUL.

Or take the short hop on an AC Express Dash-8 (and every now and then, it's a better deal via YYZ, slightly longer itinerary, but spares the indignity of ending vacation at the regional terminal at YUL)

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by McC

Or take the short hop on an AC Express Dash-8 (and every now and then, it's a better deal via YYZ, slightly longer itinerary, but spares the indignity of ending vacation at the regional terminal at YUL)

Flying YOW-YUL has little purpose though; it's often faster to just drive there.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Flying YOW-YUL has little purpose though; it's often faster to just drive there.

Actually that's incorrect; it has very significant purpose.

If someone is going to fly via YUL or YYZ to somewhere on a mainline airline, it is important to commence and terminate the journey at YOW. There's never any additional cost in doing so either.

When airlines consider new routes they look at statistics. Use CDG as an example. When someone flies YOW-YUL-CDG the stats will show that a passenger flew from Origin: Ottawa to Destination: Paris. If those stats reach a tipping point it gives an airline cause to consider a nonstop service.

When that same person drives to YUL and flies YUL-CDG, the stats will not benefit YOW in any way because the record shows Origin: YUL and Destinaton: CDG.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Actually that's incorrect; it has very significant purpose.

If someone is going to fly via YUL or YYZ to somewhere on a mainline airline, it is important to commence and terminate the journey at YOW. There's never any additional cost in doing so either.

When airlines consider new routes they look at statistics. Use CDG as an example. When someone flies YOW-YUL-CDG the stats will show that a passenger flew from Origin: Ottawa to Destination: Paris. If those stats reach a tipping point it gives an airline cause to consider a nonstop service.

When that same person drives to YUL and flies YUL-CDG, the stats will not benefit YOW in any way because the record shows Origin: YUL and Destinaton: CDG.

I meant from the perspective of a customer. As an Ottawan, flying to YUL vs. driving there isn't much difference from a time and convenience perspective.

Also, airlines should realize that and assume some people are driving in (or training in) from other air markets. In Kingston, for example, it's documented that only 25%-30% of airline traffic from Kingston actually originates at Kingston airport (the lion's share of flying Kingstonians simply driving to YYZ, YOW, or YUL instead).