Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 236

mistercorporate · #**4701** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 4:36 PM**

The South End roof at BMO is about to be put up (via twitter):

Word is that 30,000 is just the initial buildout and the extra space beneath the roof on a couple sides and the wide open North Side is to allow for expansion up to 40,000 eventually (not just temp seats) in the long term. Once that capacity is reached (40k average attendance within 15 years is realistic) we may even see TFC moving into a bigger stadium (60k base, expandable to 80k) either at the same site or somewhere else like the Portlands.

logan5 · #**4702** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 4:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I can't think of a more inappropriate spot for an arena than Confederation Park, even ignoring the park's own merits.

Really? wouldn't that spot provide about the most urban setting an arena could possibly get in Ottawa. Isn't that the goal of arena's built nowadays - provide the whole game day experience, which includes a vibrant urban setting immediately outside the arena. Rogers arena here in Vancouver probly does this as good as anybody. Except MSG.

TimB09 · #**4703** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 5:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

The South End roof at BMO is about to be put up (via twitter):

Word is that 30,000 is just the initial buildout and the extra space beneath the roof on a couple sides and the wide open North Side is to allow for expansion up to 40,000 eventually (not just temp seats) in the long term. Once that capacity is reached (40k average attendance within 15 years is realistic) we may even see TFC moving into a bigger stadium (60k base, expandable to 80k) either at the same site or somewhere else like the Portlands.

You really think a soccer team in Canada will get a 60k stadium? I'm skeptical.

mistercorporate · #**4704** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 6:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimB09

You really think a soccer team in Canada will get a 60k stadium? I'm skeptical.

Well the growth of TFC stimulated a $120 million expansion to 30,000 (40k with temp seats) and based on current growth 40,000 with expanded seating will be insufficient within 15 years. The next logical step is a 60k stadium which should be feasible given a World Cup, Olympic bid or something else. Using internal funds they may very well do it on their own within 20 years, MLSE has the cash and soccer is a fast growing longterm revenue source for them (they also definitely haven't given up on their NFL dreams, but that's a whole other debate).

Daveography · #**4705** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 6:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

I respect that more 100% then the bait and switch in Edmonton.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Star

Care to elaborate on this Bait and switch you speak of

Still waiting for the "switch" part of that, myself...

cjones2451 · #**4706** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 7:26 PM**

Found these BMO Field pics on twitter courtesy of @Kam_Ivan
Can't wait to see the finished product and hope that BOTH the Argos and TFC do well there (but not beat the Lions and Whitecaps)

king10 · #**4707** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 7:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

The South End roof at BMO is about to be put up (via twitter):

Word is that 30,000 is just the initial buildout and the extra space beneath the roof on a couple sides and the wide open North Side is to allow for expansion up to 40,000 eventually (not just temp seats) in the long term. Once that capacity is reached (40k average attendance within 15 years is realistic) we may even see TFC moving into a bigger stadium (60k base, expandable to 80k) either at the same site or somewhere else like the Portlands.

I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself.... TFC couldn't even sellout a 30K stadium last year consistently....

king10 · #**4708** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 7:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Well the growth of TFC stimulated a $120 million expansion to 30,000 (40k with temp seats) and based on current growth 40,000 with expanded seating will be insufficient within 15 years. The next logical step is a 60k stadium which should be feasible given a World Cup, Olympic bid or something else. Using internal funds they may very well do it on their own within 20 years, MLSE has the cash and soccer is a fast growing longterm revenue source for them (they also definitely haven't given up on their NFL dreams, but that's a whole other debate).

"based on current growth" I'm not seeing those numbers

as i just posted they averaged 5000 short of a sellout in a 30,000 seat stadium. growth wasn't even enough to sell out at 30,000 seats never mind sustaining additional growth for a 60,000 seat stadium in 15 years.

don't get me wrong, TFC has been a huge success. but I think you're putting the cart ahead of the horse here. I don't think the next logical step would be a 60,000 seat stadium when the expansion to 30,000 seats saw 5000 empty seats a game on average

also lets not kid ourselves. a huge reason for the expansion and provision to add additional seats is the Maple Leafs outdoor hockey game and the Grey Cup, not because TFC needs 40,000 seats

FrankieFlowerpot · #**4709** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 7:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by king10

don't get me wrong, tfc has been a huge success. But i think you're putting the cart ahead of the horse here.

+1

60,000 seats

eemy · #**4710** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 8:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

Really? wouldn't that spot provide about the most urban setting an arena could possibly get in Ottawa. Isn't that the goal of arena's built nowadays - provide the whole game day experience, which includes a vibrant urban setting immediately outside the arena. Rogers arena here in Vancouver probly does this as good as anybody. Except MSG.

It has to do with the context of the space around it and sight lines toward Parliament Hill. While not quite as extreme, it would be akin to putting an arena or stadium on the National Mall in Washington.

bikegypsy · #**4711** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 8:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

Vast improvement in location for Ottawa. But still, the LeBreton location is a km away from the DT area. How important is Confederation ParK? That would put the arena smack dab in the middle of everything.

I presume that wouldn't happen though.

There doesn't look to be many sites available where the arena would be close to all the action, like it is in other Canadian cities.

Downtown Ottawa is now spilling out of its conservative predesigned limits, and you can bet that LeBreton will be part of it within 20 years. As for Confederation park, it's massively appreciated; impossible to even consider it for development. Furthermore, this idea would never fly with the NCC. It's important to note that DT Ottawa (in its current layout) has very little green space, or any space for that matter.... Just a few spots for skinny towers.

mistercorporate · #**4712** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 9:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by king10

I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself.... TFC couldn't even sellout a 30K stadium last year consistently....

I never said it could, it will average around 25,000 this year. My statement that it will sellout 40,000 consistently in 15 years is based on its average attendance increasing about 1,500 each year the last couple years (a fact). Once that happens, the next logical step is a stadium of around 60,000 to make room for future growth.

mistercorporate · #**4713** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 9:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

+1

60,000 seats

Read my post above

king10 · #**4714** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 9:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I never said it could, it will average around 25,000 this year. My statement that it will sellout 40,000 consistently in 15 years is based on its average attendance increasing about 1,500 each year the last couple years (a fact). Once that happens, the next logical step is a stadium of around 60,000 to make room for future growth.

Year Reg. Season
2007 20,134
2008 20,108
2009 20,344
2010 20,453
2011 20,267
2012 18,681
2013 18,131
2014 22,086
2015 23,451

Sorry. Because their attendance grew by 1500 the last 3 years they will need a 60,000 seat stadium in 15 years based on 1500 a year growth.

That makes zero sense.

le calmar · #**4715** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 9:17 PM**

At this rate they will need a 105,000 seat stadium in 2066, 180,000 in 2116.

Nathan · #**4716** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 9:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar

At this rate they will need a 105,000 seat stadium in 2066, 180,000 in 2116.

Or conversely... If their 2011-2013 trendline is extrapolated, they could downsize to an 8k stadium and still have plenty of room. Perhaps a refurbished Lamport?

Oh the follies of short-term trendlines.

Acajack · #**4717** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar

At this rate they will need a 105,000 seat stadium in 2066, 180,000 in 2116.

Maybe they could get a deal on the old grandstand of the old Strahov Stadium in Prague. It used to seat 250,000.

king10 · #**4718** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 9:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Maybe they could get a deal on the old grandstand of the old Strahov Stadium in Prague. It used to seat 250,000.

seems like the next "logical" step to take

esquire · #**4719** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 9:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by king10

seems like the next "logical" step to take

Based on current projections

HomeInMyShoes · #**4720** Posted **Jan 27, 2016, 9:35 PM**

Another future scenario is the Toronto area actually supporting more than one football club. BMO expands to 40,000 and another club pops up. While this is a crazy concept for North American leagues, it is quite common in South American and European leagues.

I don't see why the future couldn't go that path instead.