LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I agree with phil235. The quest for national significance is what has blessed Ottawa with an abundance of parks. And while the NCC is awfully keen for nationally significant institutions, it is awfully vague about what that entails and awfully thrifty when it comes time to spend money on them.

Something that is nationally significant is a vibrant, exciting city. The Byward Market is nationally significant despite a lack of NCC oversight. For all it's efforts, Sparks Street, the area it does oversee, is a disappointment. How about more corner stores, hair salons, coffee shops, bars, and, dare I say community ice pads, instead of the monuments, lawns and maple-themed souvenir shops?

I'm with you both on this too. So tired of hearing the NCC's buzz phrases like "for all Canadians" or "nationally significant this or that". Does anyone really believe that anyone outside of the NCC Board really gives a $hit about Ottawa or its' vision for a better capital? For once, let's build something that WE can use and want - others can enjoy it when they visit. Geez.

[Richard Eade]

That’s all fine with me. A vital, show-case neighbourhood would be great. If the NCC deems tattoo parlours of national significance, I'm OK with adding them, too. My problem is that they are planning to add practice ice (yes, I know that it will also be available to the public – at a price) to the development area while there is already an arena, literally, right next door. If practice ice is needed, and the existing rink won’t do, then replace the existing rink next door and don’t take up space that could be used for hair salons, coffee shops, tattoo parlours, and, dare I dream, a grocery store. There are so many things that could be included in that space, why take up part of the room with duplicating something that is already next door?

Of course, the City will be all very happy if new ice sheets are built on LeBreton since that means that the City can then redevelop the Tom Brown Arena into condo towers and make some money.

My suggestion is that the City should be offering the land under the Tom Brown Arena for the Central Sen-plex with four ice sheets. The amount of parking left would be smaller, but it could be augmented, if necessary, by expanding it into the O-Train trench (which the City also owns). By offering the land, the City gets improved recreational facilities and a better development on LeBreton. (Of course, the City doesn't want to be involved in the NCC’s redevelopment of LeBreton. If it fails, then it is an NCC problem.)

[acottawa]

I don't know, while there is certainly no requirement that a practice facility be close to the main arena (Habs practice in Brossard, Leafs practice in Etobicoke) I think a practice facility integrated into the flats development has several benefits, including facilitating tournaments, conventions and other events (Ottawa's convention centre is fairly small and its tradeshow centre is in the middle of nowhere).

One problem central Ottawa has is that most of the parkland is managed by the NCC, and the NCC model of a park allows only grass, paths, trees and flowerbeds on its parks (no sports facilities, playgrounds, refreshment facilities, etc). Therefore, central neighbourhoods are underserved by things like arenas. A practice facility on the flats closer to downtown than Tom Brown (hopefully incorporating some other facilities as well) would be of much more use to the community than a 4pad way to the west.

Architecture is key. A design that doesn't have a big footprint and has parking underground be much better than a traditional suburban arena.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

That’s all fine with me. A vital, show-case neighbourhood would be great. If the NCC deems tattoo parlours of national significance, I'm OK with adding them, too. My problem is that they are planning to add practice ice (yes, I know that it will also be available to the public – at a price) to the development area while there is already an arena, literally, right next door. If practice ice is needed, and the existing rink won’t do, then replace the existing rink next door and don’t take up space that could be used for hair salons, coffee shops, tattoo parlours, and, dare I dream, a grocery store. There are so many things that could be included in that space, why take up part of the room with duplicating something that is already next door?

Of course, the City will be all very happy if new ice sheets are built on LeBreton since that means that the City can then redevelop the Tom Brown Arena into condo towers and make some money.

My suggestion is that the City should be offering the land under the Tom Brown Arena for the Central Sen-plex with four ice sheets. The amount of parking left would be smaller, but it could be augmented, if necessary, by expanding it into the O-Train trench (which the City also owns). By offering the land, the City gets improved recreational facilities and a better development on LeBreton. (Of course, the City doesn't want to be involved in the NCC’s redevelopment of LeBreton. If it fails, then it is an NCC problem.)

I don't think that price is an issue (all community arenas charge rental fees for ice), nor is the location of the practice facility for the Sens. As acottawa pointed out, most practice facilities are in the suburbs, close to where most players live, so the current facility in Kanata fits the bill.

What is needed is some new ice surfaces downtown. I don't reallly think it matters too much whether they are at the Tom Brown site or attached to a main arena. However, if they are attached to the main arena, they work better for big tournaments (like the Bell Capital Cup, where the finals are in the main arena) and for things like national team training camps, which I assume that this project would be targeting. That's why I have a slight preference for everything in one place.

[acottawa]

CBC has a story on the DCDLS bid, to me it sounds awful.

• Central library/National Archives building up to 200,000 square feet.
• NHL-style arena almost entirely underground (two storeys above ground).
• Automotive museum.
• 'Brewseum' beer museum sponsored by Molson Coors Brewing Company.
• YMCA.
• Farm Boy.
• Botanical garden/man-made beach.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...rena-1.3414023

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by phil235

I guess my problem with this requirement for something of "national significance" is that no one seems to know exactly what that is.

I thought it meant shrubs and grass.

[canabiz]

Originally Posted by acottawa

CBC has a story on the DCDLS bid, to me it sounds awful.

• Central library/National Archives building up to 200,000 square feet.
• NHL-style arena almost entirely underground (two storeys above ground).
• Automotive museum.
• 'Brewseum' beer museum sponsored by Molson Coors Brewing Company.
• YMCA.
• Farm Boy.
• Botanical garden/man-made beach.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...rena-1.3414023

What else do you have in mind?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

CBC has a story on the DCDLS bid, to me it sounds awful.

• Central library/National Archives building up to 200,000 square feet.
• NHL-style arena almost entirely underground (two storeys above ground).
• Automotive museum.
• 'Brewseum' beer museum sponsored by Molson Coors Brewing Company.
• YMCA.
• Farm Boy.
• Botanical garden/man-made beach.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...rena-1.3414023

With the likes of Desmarais and Laliberté, it actually gives this proposal some credibility. This is much more serious than I thought.

The underground arena is an interesting idea. It solves one of the big issues of a downtown arena; a huge building used only a third of the year (tops) taking up a huge tract of prime realestate. Not to mention that arenas usually look like shit on three sides.

I'll reserve my judgement for next week, but I'd say Melnyk will have a run for his money.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by canabiz

What else do you have in mind?

More shovel ready for one. They don't have a hockey team, the lac has shown no interest in moving to the flats, I highly doubt they have an automotive museum collection of any merit. That leaves some sort of coors attraction, maybe a Y (if they have a deal) and a supermarket.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

More shovel ready for one. They don't have a hockey team, the lac has shown no interest in moving to the flats, I highly doubt they have an automotive museum collection of any merit. That leaves some sort of coors attraction, maybe a Y (if they have a deal) and a supermarket.

My theory would be that they plan on somehow buying the team from Melnyk. These are huge players, money talks.

I'm certainly not saying that I support the idea. Melnyk has been instrumental in making the Sens viable (or boarder line break-even in this tough market of split loyalties). An the massive amount of community involvement he and his team have given us over the years is unprecedented in this city. But the fact is, this could be Melnyk's last stand. If he doesn't win, that's three blows in 10 years. The guy might eventually reach his breaking point, and this might be it.

I'll give you this; the automotive museum seems out of place.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

My theory would be that they plan on somehow buying the team from Melnyk. These are huge players, money talks.

They have no leverage. Are they going to build an empty arena and then try to steal the concert business? If they just want to give EM a tonne of money they can offer that tomorrow without this. I think this is a bait and switch: get the land and junk then arena the day after closing.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

They have no leverage. Are they going to build an empty arena and then try to steal the concert business? If they just want to give EM a tonne of money they can offer that tomorrow without this. I think this is a bait and switch: get the land and junk then arena the day after closing.

That's what I thought until CBC revealed the big names involved. I just don't know anymore...

[zzptichka]

Pretty sure DCDLS will be open to collaboration with Melnyk. Like they build him arena for free and keep and develop everything around it for themselves.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Pretty sure DCDLS will be open to collaboration with Melnyk. Like they build him arena for free and keep and develop everything around it for themselves.

If DCDLS ends up winning, that would be the ideal situation.

[Mugwumper]

Originally Posted by acottawa

More shovel ready for one. They don't have a hockey team, the lac has shown no interest in moving to the flats, I highly doubt they have an automotive museum collection of any merit. That leaves some sort of coors attraction, maybe a Y (if they have a deal) and a supermarket.

The LAC hasn't ruled out any of the proposed city locations for the new central library, including the property at Lebreton.

The automotive museum is a surprise--don't know who'd be sponsoring it, we'll have to wait and see what's in the complete announcement next week. I'd prefer if they'd increase the scope, maybe a transportation museum. Or industrial inventions and design, like the Paris Musée des Arts et Métiers. Most likely not in the cards, but I can dream.

Since it's close to the War Museum, and not far from the History Museum (the former Museum of Civilization across the bridge in Gatineau), it's a prime spot for another museum.

The new Y building is badly needed, and I'll forgive them every other concept included in the deal if they can include a grocery store in there somewhere. They must also have additional commercial space included in the design.... Restaurant space and so on?

The botanical garden sounds a bit redundant to me because of the Experimental Farm gardens next to Dow's Lake. But I would very much like to see a real landscaped park -- not just blank lawns dotted with trees. Along with a newly constructed riverfront beach. If they do this right, it could be a fun mixed-use entertainment park.

[rocketphish]

Quebec billionaires behind one of two bids to redevelop LeBreton Flats

Alison Mah, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 22, 2016 | Last Updated: January 22, 2016 6:59 PM EST

Two Quebec billionaires are behind one of two bids to revamp LeBreton Flats, the Citizen has learned.

Billionaire businessman André Desmarais and Cirque du Soleil co-founder Guy Laliberté are backing the group DCDLS, led by Gatineau-based Devcore Group, to redevelop the 9.3 hectares of prime real estate across from the Canadian War Museum and next to the Ottawa light rail transit system now under construction.

DCDLS is competing against Rendez Vous LeBreton, which is backed by the Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk. Both groups are believed to have NHL-calibre rinks and central public libraries in their proposals. However, Melnyk has said his NHL club will not play in a rink owned by someone else.

DCDLS’s bid includes an auto-themed museum and a beer museum sponsored by Molson Coors Brewing Company, as well as a grocery store, affordable housing and green space.

The National Capital Commission has strictly forbidden the two proponents to talk about their proposals, but the bids will be unveiled on Tuesday for two days of public consultations. That will be followed by an online consultation process.

Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson will be briefed by both groups on Monday in accordance with the NCC rules, a spokesperson for the mayor said.

The NCC is not obliged to accept either bid, and may reject the idea of allowing an NHL rink on what it describes as “the capital’s last largely undeveloped consolidated urban property.”

While the price tag associated with either groups’ bids was not immediately known, if one group proves successful it will likely be facing further costs — estimated to be tens of millions — to deal with soil contamination.

Much of the soil on a 3.6-hectare parcel of the primary site and an adjacent 12.3 hectares called the “option lands” will likely have to be hauled away and disposed of in landfills, Carlos da Silva, the managing principal of Paterson Engineering Group in Ottawa who is familiar with the site’s conditions, told the Citizen.

If the average depth of the soil is two metres, “you’re looking at maybe $3 million a hectare” to remove it, he said, meaning it could cost upwards of $50 million to remediate all the development lands.

The cost would come down if the option lands aren’t included or the development plan contains a lot of parkland, allowing contaminated soil — capped by a layer of clean soil — to remain in place.

— With files from Don Butler and Joanne Chianello

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...lebreton-flats

[1overcosc]

An automotive museum in Ottawa makes no sense. There's no auto industry here, and I don't think there ever has been.

A Canadian auto museum would make far, far, FAR more sense in Oshawa or Windsor.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

An automotive museum in Ottawa makes no sense. There's no auto industry here, and I don't think there ever has been.

A Canadian auto museum would make far, far, FAR more sense in Oshawa or Windsor.

You mean like this one http://www.canadianautomotivemuseum.com/ already in Oshawa?

But, just to play devil's advocate, think of the huge collection of vehicles that the Canadian Museum of Science and Technology (CSTM) has stored away in warehouses. Just like the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum is a branch of the CSTM, maybe one specific to surface vehicles could be created. If the cars, trucks, bikes, motorcycles, ski-doos, Pope-Mobile, (maybe trains), etc. were no longer taking up floor space at the CSTM, then they could display more of their other things.

[Kibb]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

My theory would be that they plan on somehow buying the team from Melnyk. These are huge players, money talks.

I'm certainly not saying that I support the idea. Melnyk has been instrumental in making the Sens viable (or boarder line break-even in this tough market of split loyalties). An the massive amount of community involvement he and his team have given us over the years is unprecedented in this city. But the fact is, this could be Melnyk's last stand. If he doesn't win, that's three blows in 10 years. The guy might eventually reach his breaking point, and this might be it.

I'll give you this; the automotive museum seems out of place.

Ya those two are definately planning to try to buy the team.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Kibb

Ya those two are definately planning to try to buy the team.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/o...sale-1.3416125

Yep!