LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[McC]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Google says Ottawa is grand therefore it has to be true.

I rarely have cause to argue with Google, so it must be thus!

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

In a way, I think the dithering is somewhat fortunate. The most popular thing to do after clearing so-called "blighted" neighbourhoods (which was all the rage in the 50s and 60s all across North America and Europe) was Le Corbusier style towers in a park (either ugly office complexes like Tunney's Pasture or public housing projects like Regent Park or St. James Place), both of which are worse than the moonscape there now.

This is a very good point. The fact that redevelopment was delayed for half a century meant it's a blank slate that can now be built according to the much better standards we have nowadays.

[Boxster]

I think the Claridge development should be torn down completely......Do we really want to look at this nightmare for the next 50 years?

Now is the time to redevelop at the same time as the rest of the flats.

[rocketphish]

Keep an open mind about LeBreton Flats development

Mark Sutcliffe, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 7, 2016 | Last Updated: January 7, 2016 11:17 AM EST

Why is everyone in such a hurry to pass judgement on the plans for LeBreton Flats before they’ve even had a chance to see them?

The comprehensive development proposals prepared by two different groups have not yet been released to the public, but many people have already rendered their verdicts. It’s like reviewing a movie after watching only the trailer. Perhaps that’s to be expected in the age of social media and instant opinions.

Some people have been nitpicking about the process, dredging up familiar criticisms of the National Capital Commission. But we shouldn’t let petty politics and procedural issues get in the way of this historic opportunity to build something significant in the centre of the city.

Other critics say the competing plans are too similar because they both include a hockey arena. Many seem to think that little more than a stadium is being proposed by either party. But a sports facility would take up only a small part of the available land, about 10 per cent of the total acreage.

The other 90 per cent of the proposals presumably will include residential and commercial space, public areas and cultural institutions and will likely be quite different from each other. If you think two neighbourhoods are comparable because of one similar component, does that mean Overbrook is identical to the Bronx because they both have baseball stadiums?

The argument has been raised that federal land is the wrong place for a hockey arena. But when you’re planning a city thoughtfully it matters less who owns the land than ensuring it’s properly used, and how that use fits into the overall plan for the community. We need to approach planning with a blank slate and an open mind, not base our decisions on proprietorship. Likewise, if the best place for a national institution is on land owned by the city, let’s work that out, rather than prescribe that it must be used exclusively for a local purpose.

In any event, the federal government owns LeBreton Flats only because it was expropriated from local residents some 50 years ago. It’s community space, not land preordained for some majestic national objective. And it is the last major empty tract in the core, so we should take full advantage of it. Several pieces of the puzzle that are missing from downtown Ottawa can go here. Some of them, it can be argued, can go only here.

Despite what some people think, the process is far from over. The community still has lots of opportunity to provide input, and it won’t have to wait much longer. The proposals will be made public within a few weeks.

And even with only two submissions on the table, the NCC and the federal government still have lots of options. Even after choosing one of the designs, the NCC will work closely with the proponent on a final plan. Public officials can negotiate for the right mix of ideas, incorporate the community’s input and make significant adjustments so the final outcome is in the city’s and the country’s best interests. The end product could be significantly different from the original proposals.

If there’s too much negative feedback about the process and the unseen proposals in the meantime, the federal government might decide it’s not worth the political risk and shift LeBreton Flats to the back burner for another generation.

That would be a bad outcome for everyone. We’ve sat on the land for decades. Much of it’s contaminated and in desperate need of rehabilitation. If there are people willing to work with the government to clean it up and build something exciting, the NCC should err on the side of collaborating on a suitable outcome rather than restart the process or, even worse, do nothing.

For now, the whole community and especially its elected officials and opinion leaders should show a little patience. Let’s actually look at the proposals before we grumble about them. And then let’s have a healthy and productive discussion on what’s best for our city.

Twitter.com/_MarkSutcliffe

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columni...en-mind-about-lebreton-flats-development

[rocketphish]

At least one – maybe both – LeBreton Flats proposals include library: sources

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 14, 2016 | Last Updated: January 15, 2016 4:45 PM EST

At least one of the two development proposals for LeBreton Flats — and possibly both — include a provision for a new Ottawa central library, sources say.

A source, who asked not to be identified, has confirmed that the proposal by DCDLS Group, led by the Gatineau-based Devcore Group, includes a library.

CTV tweeted Thursday that DCDLS Group and the team led by the Ottawa Senators, Rendez Vous LeBreton, both have libraries in their proposals, but a spokesman for the Senators said he could not confirm or deny the report.

If true, it would mean both of the remaining development proposals feature NHL-calibre arenas and provisions for a library.

The National Capital Commission has strictly forbidden the two proponents to talk about their proposals, but they will be unveiled on Jan. 26 to kick off two days of public consultations.

The news comes on the heels of reports this week that the Ottawa Public Library is exploring the idea of building a central library in partnership with Library and Archives Canada. Officials from the two institutions are to meet next week.

The Ottawa library has been planning for a new main branch, but there is still no site, budget or architect for the project. The partnership with Library and Archives Canada, if it proceeds, would be virtually unprecedented in the library world.

LeBreton Flats might be a location that would work for both parties. The city wants the new central branch to have easy access to an LRT station on the Confederation Line now under construction, and there will be two of those on LeBreton Flats.

For its part, Library and Archives Canada might look favourably on a site not far from its current location at 395 Wellington St., just east of LeBreton Flats.

However, neither site is acceptable to the councillor who represents the ward where Ottawa’s new central library will be built.

“A central library should be central,” said Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney. “For the library to be successful today it should be in the downtown core between Bronson (Avenue) and the canal.”

McKenney argues there is not enough density in LeBreton to warrant putting the library there. A Nanos Research survey of 557 library cardholders who use the main branch on Metcalfe as their home branch found that 81 per cent arrived at the branch on foot. About 29 per cent said they came to the library from work.

“Those numbers all add up to a dense downtown core, where you have a commercial sector, where you have thousands of people who live within walking distance,” said McKenney.

She said she’s excited about the possible partnership with Library and Archives Canada, but her focus is on Ottawa’s new central library. “If we have a partnership, I don’t want to to be to the disadvantage of our central library.”

Sarah Anson-Cartwright, one of the founders of Bookmark the Core, a group that wants the central branch to remain east of Bronson, said the library should be built close to the Rideau Centre, the ByWard Market, Parliament Hill and other tourist draws.

“That’s what you see with the Halifax library, where it has become a tourist destination.”

Coun. Tim Tierney, the chair of the Ottawa Public Library Board, said Thursday it was premature to talk about location. He also said he’s in the dark about the LeBreton proposals, and can’t comment until he sees the bids.

“We literally don’t know anything until the 26th, when the bids are released.”

He said that if a library is in the LeBreton bid, it’s a “completely separate kettle of fish” from the proposed partnership between the public library and Library and Archives Canada.

Any LeBreton proposal would have to follow the process that has already been set up, Tierney said.

“Whatever comes back has to come back to the board. We have our timelines, but we have no knowledge of what’s in those proposals until the 26th.”

In a presentation to the Library Board this week, Bookmark the Core, a citizens’ group pushing for a new central library in downtown Ottawa, said Mayor Jim Watson has told them he believes the city’s core will move west toward LeBreton Flats.

And when the NCC unveils the LeBreton Flats proposals, said Emilie Taman, the group’s spokeswoman, “there may well be a library as part of one and possibly both of them.

“All these factors make it look as though a LeBreton Flats site for the new central library may be a done deal,” Taman said, calling that “the antithesis of open public processes.

“There has never been any assessment that demonstrates LeBreton Flats would serve the public interest for a central library in terms of catchment population, proximity to other destinations and other criteria that are critical to its success as social infrastructure in this city,” she said.

With files from Joanne Laucius

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twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...-flats-proposals-include-library-sources

[rocketphish]

Public battle begins over NHL rink on LeBreton Flats

Andrew Duffy, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 18, 2016 | Last Updated: January 18, 2016 6:50 PM EST



The public relations battle over the future of LeBreton Flats has been launched online — one week before the bids are officially unveiled by the National Capital Commission.

An online survey designed to identify the best development ideas for LeBreton Flats and a Facebook page dedicated to supporting the Ottawa Senators’ bid to relocate downtown suggest that the real battle for the site pits those in favour of an NHL hockey rink against those opposed to one.

Only two bidders have submitted proposals for the prime parcel of land, and both are believed to include an NHL arena and a new public library.

“If you go to a game in downtown Montreal, it’s way more fun because you can go out afterwards,” said Phil Smith, a Sens fan who has launched the Facebook page Bring Sens Home in support of the franchise’s LeBreton proposal. His page has been liked by more than 1,300 people.

Smith thinks there’s a 50-50 chance that the NCC will allow an NHL rink to be built. “I’m just amazed we didn’t do this right from the start,” he said. “I don’t know why we chose to have a hockey arena in the middle of a hayfield.”

Meanwhile, a citizen-launched wiki survey initiated last week has already attracted more than 2,500 votes on 42 ideas for LeBreton Flats. The most popular idea on the survey is a call for an international, open design competition.

The two existing proposals­ for LeBreton will be unveiled Jan. 26 at the Canadian War Museum as part of two days of public consultations. That will be followed by an online consultation process.

The similarity of the two bids, however, means that the NCC and ultimately, the Liberal government, will be deciding between a hockey rink and a return to the drawing board.

The NCC is not obliged to accept either bid, and may reject the idea of putting on an NHL rink on what it describes as “the capital’s last largely undeveloped consolidated urban property.”

The 9.3 hectare site is next to the Ottawa light rail transit system now under construction and across from the War Museum.

Sources tell the Citizen that Rendez Vous LeBreton, the group representing the Senators, and the other competing team, the DCDLS Group, presented their proposals to the NCC last Thursday.

Each team had about 30 minutes to showcase its vision to more than two dozen people with expertise in the various components of the redevelopment program. The presentations were followed by several hours of questions.

Four development teams were shortlisted by the NCC last February to present ideas, but only two submitted final proposals.

In its request for proposals, the NCC said its vision for the site “is to see an anchor use worthy of national significance that creates a new capital landmark.” It asked for proposals that incorporate “the highest quality of architecture and sustainable design.”

— With files from Don Butler

NCC’S PROJECTED TIMELINE

Jan. 26, 27: Public exhibition
Jan. 26-Feb. 8: Online consultation
February: Review by evaluation committee
March: Evaluation committee recommendation to the NCC Board of Directors
Summer/Fall 2016: Negotiations with the preferred proponent
Fall 2016: Federal approval process
Early 2017: Announcement of successful proponent
2017: Municipal process (NCC and City of Ottawa)

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/public-battle-begins-over-nhl-rink-on-lebreton-flats

[YOWflier]

From yesterday:

http://www.cfra.com/news/2016/01/20/cfra-learns-details-of-sens-lebreton-flats-proposal

CFRA learns details of Sens' Lebreton Flats proposal

Sources tell CFRA's "Ottawa Now" that the proposal for the redevelopment of Lebreton Flats backed by the Ottawa Senators will include a sports training facility along with a new arena.

This will be similar to the Sens-plexes in the east and west end, and will include two new ice pads --- which are at a premium in the city.

The facility would be used by the Ottawa Senators for training, and be available for community use.

Sources also tell "Ottawa Now" that the proposal, to be unveiled next Tuesday by the NCC, will include indoor and outdoor performance space for cultural events.

CFRA has also learned that there will be public square for people to gather, part of a project that will also include retail space, hotels and condos.

This latest news comes after CTV broke the news last week that both proposals - the Rendevous Lebreton and the DCDLS group - will include a site for the a new central public library

[acottawa]

Sounds like Maple Leaf Square. I hope it looks like Maple Leaf Square.

[zzptichka]

Similar to Sens-plex? As in giant barn with a huge slab of free surface parking next to it?
Not sure this is going to fly well.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Similar to Sens-plex? As in giant barn with a huge slab of free surface parking next to it?
Not sure this is going to fly well.

It would probably be similar to Roger's Place in Edmonton, with community rinks (though they only have one) intergraded with the main building. Sens are proposing something similar in Gatineau for the Hull Olympiques.

Can't wait to see the proposals next week. I'm positive the Sens will be miles better than Devcore's last minute bait-and-switch... Bait-and-switch? Wonder if Claridge dropped out to join Devcore?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Similar to Sens-plex? As in giant barn with a huge slab of free surface parking next to it?
Not sure this is going to fly well.

I like the concept. This would satisfy a huge need in central Ottawa and arenas are great at operating as community hubs.

Parking will definitely be a challenge in an urban setting, as community rinks can't operate without parking. It might dovetail nicely if they are building some underground parking for the Sens arena and the library/cultural facilty that would be largely empty for big parts of the day and if the peak uses offset. I'm not sure they would though.

Not really worried about the aesthetics of the rinks. You can easily address that with design. I was just in Boston and they have a great glass-enclosed hockey rink right on the water in the North End. People walking by on the street can watch the activity on the ice. Something like that would be great at Lebreton.

[citydwlr]

This video was released a few days ago by the NCC:
• Video Link

More Information: http://www.ncc-ccn.gc.ca/capital-plannin.../lebreton-flats-redevelopment-public-con

[Richard Eade]

Personally, I think that a 4-ice-pad Central Sens-plex should replace the Tom Brown Arena. This would be close enough to the main arena for practice, yet not take up a lot of LeBreton area that could be used for 'nationally significant' things. But for that to happen, the City would need to be involved.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Personally, I think that a 4-ice-pad Central Sens-plex should replace the Tom Brown Arena. This would be close enough to the main arena for practice, yet not take up a lot of LeBreton area that could be used for 'nationally significant' things. But for that to happen, the City would need to be involved.

Pretty sure city has other plans for Tom Brown arena given how close it is to Bayview LRT station.

[OTSkyline]

I'm excited to see the proposals next week.. Can't believe it will take them pretty much a full year before a winner is announced tho (I believe Nov/Dec 2017 is when the winner would be announced).

Also, I know there are "protected sightlines" and "views" toward the Peace tower and Parliament Hill. By glancing over the RFP, it looks like the NCC will also give consideration to protected views of the tip of the War Museum and to the new Holocaust Memorial they are supposed to build around there (what's the timeline for this again?).. If so, seems like everything is "protected", will we end up with bunch of 4-6 story condos, offices and retail buildings everywhere a-la-Lansdowne (save for the two condo towers)? With the central location and the LRT and stuff it would be a shame not to have some nice architecture, interesting buildings and a mix of towers, midrises and lowrises.

Oh wait, I guess we all have to wait and see...

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Pretty sure city has other plans for Tom Brown arena given how close it is to Bayview LRT station.

And I suppose that that is my worry. The City would be happy if a couple of sheets of ‘Practice Ice’ are built on (Federal) LeBreton Flats land because that would free up the Tom Brown Arena’s land for the City to redevelop and make money. Hey, the people still have hockey space and the City makes money; what could be wrong with that? Well, that mean that a chunk of space that could be used for something more significant than practice ice is not available in LeBreton Flats. The City should be contributing to this as a city-building exercise. They should be working WITH the NCC and not trying to profit from the NCC’s loss.

Seriously, what is the NCC really getting that is of national, or international, significance? So far we are hearing that the existing pro-arena would be moved from the west end of the city to LeBreton Flats (oh, and that is going to need a peripheral building for a couple of sheets of practice ice – but that building will be open to the public, at a cost, when the Senators don’t need it), and a big new city library (and we’ll throw in some space for the National Library – as long as it is shared space with the city library), and, of course, a bunch of condo towers to help pay for everything. Too bad there really isn’t enough room left for anything nationally significant.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Seriously, what is the NCC really getting that is of national, or international, significance? So far we are hearing that the existing pro-arena would be moved from the west end of the city to LeBreton Flats (oh, and that is going to need a peripheral building for a couple of sheets of practice ice – but that building will be open to the public, at a cost, when the Senators don’t need it), and a big new city library (and we’ll throw in some space for the National Library – as long as it is shared space with the city library), and, of course, a bunch of condo towers to help pay for everything. Too bad there really isn’t enough room left for anything nationally significant.

I guess my problem with this requirement for something of "national significance" is that no one seems to know exactly what that is. A new museum would be great, but that isn't in the cards, so what exactly are we looking for that would make Ottawa a better place and a better capital? The ongoing quest for a nationally significant use is how we end up with prime land being vacant for 50 years. You do have a nationally significant waste, but that's about it.

My other issue is that this undefined goal should not be pursued to the exclusion of things that people would actually use - a library, an NHL arena that would be busy with all kinds of events, community arenas (for the record, they aren't just practice ice - the Sensplex arenas are constantly being used, whether for minor hockey games, all varities of programming or kids and adult tournaments). This site is huge, and has room for all of these things and more.

In any event, I would argue that a spectator arena positioned as a national sports facilty would be of national significance. If we know what other nationally significant institution we can put there, great, let's do that, plus all of the other stuff. If we don't, that is not a great reason to hold off on other city-building projects until we can think of something that would be nationally significant.

Comparing practical plans against undefined dreams is not a good way to make urban planning decisions.

[rocketphish]

Decontaminating LeBreton sites could cost as much as $50 million, says expert

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 21, 2016 | Last Updated: January 21, 2016 6:38 PM EST

Whoever wins the current competition to redevelop LeBreton Flats will likely be on the hook for tens of millions of dollars to remove contaminated soil, says an Ottawa geotechnical engineer familiar with the site’s conditions.

Much of the soil on a 3.6-hectare parcel of the primary site and an adjacent 12.3 hectares called the “option lands” will likely have to be hauled away and disposed of in landfills, said Carlos da Silva, the managing principal of Paterson Engineering Group in Ottawa.

As a rule of thumb, the cost of handling, loading, hauling and disposing of contaminated soil is about $150 per cubic metre, da Silva said.

If the average depth of the soil is two metres, “you’re looking at maybe $3 million a hectare” to remove it, he said, meaning it could cost upwards of $50 million to remediate all the development lands. “That’s a fair assumption,” da Silva said.

The cost would come down if the option lands aren’t included or the development plan contains a lot of parkland, allowing contaminated soil — capped by a layer of clean soil — to remain in place.

The National Capital Commission has already removed contaminated soil down to bedrock on a 5.7-hectare parcel being offered for development. It hauled away 110,000 cubic metres of soil weighing more than 200,000 tonnes.

Total remediation costs for that property were $6.7 million, according to the Federal Contaminated Sites portal.

But the NCC has made it clear that responsibility for removing contaminated soil from the remaining property rests with the teams competing to redevelop the long-vacant lands just west of Ottawa’s core.

“Proponents are reminded that the property is offered on an ‘as is’, ‘where is’ basis, with no compensation from the NCC for remediation,” the NCC said in its request for proposals.

The selected proponent “assumes all the costs, risks and liabilities associated with existing conditions and the remediation of soil and groundwater for all the lands proposed for redevelopment,” the NCC said.

The cost of decontamination could represent a significant barrier for the two remaining teams in the competition: the Ottawa Senators’ Rendez Vous LeBreton group and the DCDLS Group. They will present details of their proposals at a public consultation on Tuesday.

LeBreton Flats once housed a rail yard and other industrial uses. The soil contains metals such as lead, zinc and arsenic, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons such as creosote and debris from houses demolished in the 1960s.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...-could-cost-up-to-50-million-expert-says

[eemy]

I agree with phil235. The quest for national significance is what has blessed Ottawa with an abundance of parks. And while the NCC is awfully keen for nationally significant institutions, it is awfully vague about what that entails and awfully thrifty when it comes time to spend money on them.

Something that is nationally significant is a vibrant, exciting city. The Byward Market is nationally significant despite a lack of NCC oversight. For all it's efforts, Sparks Street, the area it does oversee, is a disappointment. How about more corner stores, hair salons, coffee shops, bars, and, dare I say community ice pads, instead of the monuments, lawns and maple-themed souvenir shops?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Seriously, what is the NCC really getting that is of national, or international, significance? So far we are hearing that the existing pro-arena would be moved from the west end of the city to LeBreton Flats (oh, and that is going to need a peripheral building for a couple of sheets of practice ice – but that building will be open to the public, at a cost, when the Senators don’t need it), and a big new city library (and we’ll throw in some space for the National Library – as long as it is shared space with the city library), and, of course, a bunch of condo towers to help pay for everything. Too bad there really isn’t enough room left for anything nationally significant.

The arena is as "national" as any proposal I have heard. It could host national events (state funerals, political conventions) in a way a Kanata-based arena cannot. It could also play a supporting role in national events such as Canada day.

In a capital that is not the main population, transportation, cultural or economic hub, almost no institution (NAC, National Gallery) is going to be particularly national.