Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Express691]

These trains can be assigned anywhere. No difference as to when the 300s came into service.

[xd_1771]

Bombardier did an in-house video on KL's new Mark III trains

• Video Link

Lots of manufacturing and design process shots. I'm hoping Vancouver can get a video like this!

Also, in the background at 3:22 you can see another 2-car Mark III train on the test track. That one must be for the Riyadh order, unless they haven't announced a 4th order for the new trains.

[Express691]

I thought the riyadh order didnt use LIM technology.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Bombardier did an in-house video on KL's new Mark III trains

Weird to see those trains running in the middle of farmland...

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

I believe only the expo line is getting new trains, since it's the only line that needs the capacity of a fully articulated four car set, while the other line can make do with less

Plus, wouldn't getting more of the Mark 1's off the Expo Line mean less service disruptions on the busiest route?

[Express691]

Originally Posted by logan5

Plus, wouldn't getting more of the Mark 1's off the Expo Line mean less service disruptions on the busiest route?

No, you would just increase the number of 6-car trains on the entire network.

What Im getting from this is like saying that Translink is getting new 40 foot buses because the older 40 foot buses cause service delays. As long as its a train, they can go anywhere

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Express691

I thought the riyadh order didnt use LIM technology.

They're on the another track supposedly meant for use by light rail vehicles, but that track isn't outfitted with third rails (you can see that earlier in the video) so the train was put there unpowered. Remains to be said whether they're using LIM or Mitrac.

As for the new trains, they'll be going to go to the Expo Line to increase capacity but the other reason they won't be going to the Evergreen Extension is because the Evergreen Line business plan specifies the use of 2-car Mark II trains, which will run every 3 minutes peak (2x as frequently as today on the M-Line, giving slightly higher capacity than the current 6-min setup alternating between Mark Is/IIs) and 5 mins off peak. Existing 4-car Mark II trains will be split into single 2-car consists for the Evergreen Extension, which will presumably result in the M-Line using Mark IIs only. Whether that'll result in enough surplus of Mark I cars such that all of them become 6-car trains is left to be said, however.

[Metro-One]

I thought according to Malcom they weren't making new skytrain cars anymore

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I thought according to Malcom they weren't making new skytrain cars anymore

The press releases say that the KL cars will be built and manufactured through July 2017. So he was lying from the beginning...

[nname]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Whether that'll result in enough surplus of Mark I cars such that all of them become 6-car trains is left to be said, however.

There won't be enough. In fact, there may be even less Mark Is running with 4-car trains.

Just some quick calculations -

Assume dwell + turn-around time is 3min at each end

Expo (King George) - travel time 39min, round-trip 84min, 2.7min headway = 32 trains (same as now)
Expo (Production) - travel time 40min, round-trip 86min, 5.4min headway = 16 trains
Expo (Broadway) - Assume 4 trains (I remember reading this somewhere)
Millennium - travel time 35min, round-trip 76min, 3.0min headway = 26 trains

The trains we have now:

Mark I = 150 cars, with 10% spare = 136 cars
Mark II = 108 cars, with 6% spare = 102 cars
Mark III = 28 cars, assume no spare and share spare pool with the Mark II

Assign trains to the Millennium Line
26x 2-cars MkII = 54 MkII

Assign trains to the Expo short-turn
4x 2-cars MkII = 8 MkII

What we have left for the 48 trains required for Expo:
138x MkI, 40x MkII, 28x MkIII

Assign MkII and IIIs:
10x 4-cars MkII = 40 MkII
7x 4-cars MkIII = 28 MkIII

This makes 17 trains, so the 136 MkI must make 31 trains, so this would gives
6x 6-cars MkI = 36 MkI
25x 4-cars MkI = 100 MkI

About the same amount of 6-car trains as now. However, this is with a very generous spare ratio. The fleet strategy state that the plan is to increase MkI spare to about 12%; the MkII availability would more likely to be 98 instead of 102. In this case, there would be only enough cars to make at most 2 6-cars trains.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I thought according to Malcom they weren't making new skytrain cars anymore

He's the only one out there that makes such comments, and Daryl has debunked those. Malcom's a broken record, if you don't see these three lines in every comment:

"Nobody builds with Skytrain" - Blatantly false. Also contextually wrong. Skytrain is a trademark here, and a more generic term for what was previously called "El" or "L" being short for "Elevated", just like "Subway" used to be for NYC, and now it's a fairly genericized term for underground rail in North America.

"Only seven... have been built" - Blatantly false when all systems are build-to-order. He will readily ignore the LIM lines in Japan, and the other driverless metros as not having anything in common. He seems to focus only on "Bombardier" made cars with LIM motors, nothing else.

"...Modern Light Rail..." - There is nothing "modern" about light rail when he also does the same Streetcar = Light Rail false equivalence.

Which is to say, every time you see a comment from him, he's firmly in the "let's destroy peoples mobility" camp.

A "Street car" is a bus-sized vehicle that runs in traffic (eg down the center of a street) sharing car space, and doesn't have stations, just bus stops, and always runs at grade. It's equivalent is a regular 40' bus.
A "Light Rail" LRV can be Bus-sized or have a few short C cars in it to make it longer like a Metro train. They do not have to be run at grade, but the most dangerous ones do.

[WarrenC12]

Speaking of trainsets, I have seen a 2 car Mark 2.5 train between Stadium and Main in the mornings a number of times, going both ways.

I'm not aware of any shuttle services operating, does anybody know what's going on here?

[Mac Write]

There is morning shuttle service Waterfront > Brooadway > waterfront.

and there is 150 Mark I train cars not 136 train cars.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Speaking of trainsets, I have seen a 2 car Mark 2.5 train between Stadium and Main in the mornings a number of times, going both ways.

I'm not aware of any shuttle services operating, does anybody know what's going on here?

That's the Waterfront-Commercial shuttle operated as part of regular peak hour service, to handle the Millennium Line transfer crush.

I now recall that the Mark III order has an option to proceed with a second round of 28 trains. I believe that if we receive that order, we can 6-car all the Mark Is then.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

There is morning shuttle service Waterfront > Brooadway > waterfront.

and there is 150 Mark I train cars not 136 train cars.

150 with 10% spare = 136

[xd_1771]

Okay I was right, I still have the original RFEOI on my hard drive (somehow) so I put it up on my blog server
https://darylvsworld.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/q12007rfeoialr-transit-passenger-vehicles.pdf

It does state in 2.2:

TransLink intends to procure up to an initial 28 Vehicles (actual number of Vehicles may be increased or decreased at TransLink’s discretion), with potential options for up to an additional 28 Vehicles (actual number of Vehicles may be increased or decreased at TransLink’s discretion). The anticipated service dates for the initial Vehicles is approximately January 2016, and June 2017 for optional Vehicles.

It seems like proceeding with the option will be a difficulty, however, given lack of funding.

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by nname

There won't be enough. In fact, there may be even less Mark Is running with 4-car trains.

Just some quick calculations -

Assume dwell + turn-around time is 3min at each end

Expo (King George) - travel time 39min, round-trip 84min, 2.7min headway = 32 trains (same as now)
Expo (Production) - travel time 40min, round-trip 86min, 5.4min headway = 16 trains
Expo (Broadway) - Assume 4 trains (I remember reading this somewhere)
Millennium - travel time 35min, round-trip 76min, 3.0min headway = 26 trains

The trains we have now:

Mark I = 150 cars, with 10% spare = 136 cars
Mark II = 108 cars, with 6% spare = 102 cars
Mark III = 28 cars, assume no spare and share spare pool with the Mark II

Assign trains to the Millennium Line
26x 2-cars MkII = 54 MkII

Assign trains to the Expo short-turn
4x 2-cars MkII = 8 MkII

What we have left for the 48 trains required for Expo:
138x MkI, 40x MkII, 28x MkIII

Assign MkII and IIIs:
10x 4-cars MkII = 40 MkII
7x 4-cars MkIII = 28 MkIII

This makes 17 trains, so the 136 MkI must make 31 trains, so this would gives
6x 6-cars MkI = 36 MkI
25x 4-cars MkI = 100 MkI

About the same amount of 6-car trains as now. However, this is with a very generous spare ratio. The fleet strategy state that the plan is to increase MkI spare to about 12%; the MkII availability would more likely to be 98 instead of 102. In this case, there would be only enough cars to make at most 2 6-cars trains.

Such an awesome post...thank you!!

Do you think the Production spur will be all mk1s when this happens, with the King George spur taking all of the mk3s and the remaining mk2s?

[Waders]

TransLink should reorganize as a transit-only company: ex-CEO

Here is the link to the report.

I don't understand how splitting up Translink into multiple entities would improve the current funding shortage situation.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Waders

TransLink should reorganize as a transit-only company: ex-CEO

Here is the link to the report.

I don't understand how splitting up Translink into multiple entities would improve the current funding shortage situation.

Well, Christy Clark's Liberals have already shown that they're willing to spend $2.5 billion on transportation, so long as it involves a road.

Taking highways and bridges out of the budget saves about $90 million a year, not counting tunnel replacements and new projects. AFAIK, that's a win.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

i don't understand why TransLink has roads. that should all be BCMoT. TransLink should only be for transit and not roads. it doesn't make much sense to me.