New Ottawa Civic Hospital [930 Carling Ave + 520 Preston St] | U/C

[McC]

I'm not expecting a new hospital to be built anytime soon.

[DEWLine]

I would prefer that the Experimental Farm not be punished for their research in order to allow for a new Civic(AKA "near west end") campus of the Hospital.

[rocketphish]

Councillor demands protection for Experimental Farm from politicians' snap decisions

David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 14, 2016 | Last Updated: January 14, 2016 8:36 PM EST

Having given up hope that The Ottawa Hospital will talk to its neighbours about its plans to rebuild its Civic campus on the Experimental Farm, Coun. Riley Brockington is pressing the federal government to stop carving up the property.

Even the city has designs on some of the precious land, he says.

“I’m not looking for national-park status, because this is a national research-slash-agricultural station,” says the River councillor, whose ward includes the farm. “But it needs some form of protection.”

He brought it up with the new Liberal MP for Ottawa Centre, Catherine McKenna, who whipped through City Hall this week for meetings with the local councillors in her riding, and says he won’t let it go.

The problem isn’t the hospital’s plan to rebuild. “It’s very difficult to argue against the necessity of a hospital,” Brockington says. The current Civic has been added to and renovated so many times it’s like Frankenstein’s monster. The problem is, nobody’s debated the wisdom of carving off 60 acres of the Experimental Farm or what will happen in Carlington and the Civic Hospital neighbourhood when their defining institution changes radically.

Consultations are coming, the hospital promises. The hospital has hired a company to run public events — Pace Consulting, which the city itself has often used on big complicated projects — and hopes to announce dates very soon, says spokeswoman Kate Eggins.

Brockington is worried that it’ll mix up consultations the hospital has to hold about its plans for medical services, held across the territory it serves in Eastern Ontario, with ones that should deal with how a new hospital will fit into a city neighbourhood.

“I have not received clear or prompt information from the Ottawa Hospital on the timelines to host a very basic information session, intended for the immediate community that abuts the Civic Hospital,” Brockington wrote to hospital chief executive Jack Kitts last week. “The chronic delays have been unfortunate and undermine the Civic’s credibility.”

I don’t think you’re serious, the councillor wrote: “I am convinced there is no genuine attempt or plan to host a community information session.”

We will hold such a session, Kitts promised in response. We really will.

Brockington points out that mall company RioCan is planning a major redevelopment of its Westgate shopping centre nearby and had no trouble presenting its early vision in a community meeting just before Christmas. He’s been waiting for the hospital for over a year.

RioCan needs the city’s approval and co-operation. As a provincial institution, the hospital can just about do what it pleases.

“If that’s the way they’re looking at it, we have a much bigger problem with The Ottawa Hospital than just one site,” Brockington says.

(One way around such things is to build a new hospital in the middle of nowhere. That’s what they’re doing in Windsor, buying an ordinary farm field on a concession line out beyond the city’s airport because it’s cheap and easy to build on. Also not great.)

The Ottawa Hospital’s plans probably won’t be stopped outright at this point. But they can be a warning about slicing away at the farm’s property.

“We keep eroding, chipping away here and there,” Brockington says. The federal government scoffed when the hospital said it wanted a piece of the farm, then one day it said, “OK, sure.” If it happened once, it can happen again.

The western tip of the farm got lopped off years ago and sold for what’s now the Central Park neighbourhood west of Merivale Road. The hospital is set to get its 60 acres off Carling. The city is eyeing a 10-metre strip of the farm along Baseline Road for a busway it wants to build by 2031. There’s perennial talk of putting in a botanical garden; Brockington figures that’s more in keeping with the farm and its arboretum, but there are no standards for any proposal to meet.

Brockington had started talking to former MP Paul Dewar about it, but they hadn’t made much progress and then came the election and Dewar lost his seat. Now Brockington’s starting over with McKenna.

Perhaps the Experimental Farm shouldn’t be inviolate, but there should be rules for using it beyond a powerful politician’s whim. McKenna has the advantage of being a minister rather than an opposition critic and can get it done.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columni...demands-protection-for-experimental-farm

[eternallyme]

I'd cancel the new hospital, renovate the existing (likely downsized, perhaps with the Heart Institute at the General) and build any new expansions on new sites in the suburbs. Open up new small-ish hospital campuses in Kanata, Barrhaven and Orleans with working ER's and basic services.

[1overcosc]

Sell off the entire farm. Build a new farm in the Greenbelt. The CEF — up too much land too close to the city. Then get the feds to use the proceeds to pay for the downtown truck tunnel. And we get a shiny new hospital.

Boom. Three birds in one stone.

[Buggys]

The farm cannot be moved. You can't just take hundreds of years of soil with associated experimental data, shove it somewhere outside of its current microclimate, and expect to have a fitting replacement.

City dwellers can also use a blatant reminder of where their sustenance comes from.

There are lots of better fitting locations for new hospital buildings: within walking distance of an LRT/O-train station; and/or community hospitals in the fast growing suburbs.

[daud]

Originally Posted by Buggys

The farm cannot be moved. You can't just take hundreds of years of soil with associated experimental data, shove it somewhere outside of its current microclimate, and expect to have a fitting replacement.

City dwellers can also use a blatant reminder of where their sustenance comes from.

There are lots of better fitting locations for new hospital buildings: within walking distance of an LRT/O-train station; and/or community hospitals in the fast growing suburbs.

I love the farm, especially the arboretum. You can't move a 40 year old umbrella magnolia to the greenbelt and I agree it should stay where it is. But, I am not opposed to the current civic expansion. That section is a helicopter landing pad and a cornfield. In fact 75% of the farm seems to be corn-something I see every time I leave Ottawa in any direction except north.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I'd cancel the new hospital, renovate the existing (likely downsized, perhaps with the Heart Institute at the General) and build any new expansions on new sites in the suburbs. Open up new small-ish hospital campuses in Kanata, Barrhaven and Orleans with working ER's and basic services.

Great! Yet another idea to help encourage the hollowing-out of central Ottawa and more sprawl! Yay! Just what Ottawa needs! Less centre, more sprawl! Yay!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Buggys

The farm cannot be moved. You can't just take hundreds of years of soil with associated experimental data, shove it somewhere outside of its current microclimate, and expect to have a fitting replacement.

City dwellers can also use a blatant reminder of where their sustenance comes from.

The Farm doesn't remind me of California, Mexico, or Chile.

There are lots of better fitting locations for new hospital buildings: within walking distance of an LRT/O-train station; and/or community hospitals in the fast growing suburbs.

What is the next-largest Canadian city after Ottawa that doesn't have a downtown hospital?

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The Farm doesn't remind me of California, Mexico, or Chile.



What is the next-largest Canadian city after Ottawa that doesn't have a downtown hospital?

Lol. That's a good one. But seriously, our food comes from farms. Also, much of our staple foods such as corn (Ontario) & wheat (Western Canada) are homegrown.

Ottawa's large hospital complex is just East of downtown, and the Civic is just West of downtown. Our hospital in downtown is actually little old Montfort.

Just because the farm looks large & green & flat doesn't mean it's a good candidate for the Civic's new space.

There are long term experiments on the Experimental Farm that are ongoing and need enough space to be statistically valid -- especially the area across from the Civic that some people want to carve out.

On the other hand, there're lots of areas nearby that are being planned for development -- Adult high school, some of the NRCan properties, Lebreton Flats....

[eemy]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Ottawa's large hospital complex is just East of downtown, and the Civic is just West of downtown. Our hospital in downtown is actually little old Montfort

Err, Montfort isn't downtown by even the largest stretch of the imagination. The three you mentioned are all pretty close to equidistant from downtown by my estimation.

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Lol. That's a good one. But seriously, our food comes from farms. Also, much of our staple foods such as corn (Ontario) & wheat (Western Canada) are homegrown.

Ottawa's large hospital complex is just East of downtown, and the Civic is just West of downtown. Our hospital in downtown is actually little old Montfort.

Just because the farm looks large & green & flat doesn't mean it's a good candidate for the Civic's new space.

There are long term experiments on the Experimental Farm that are ongoing and need enough space to be statistically valid -- especially the area across from the Civic that some people want to carve out.

On the other hand, there're lots of areas nearby that are being planned for development -- Adult high school, some of the NRCan properties, Lebreton Flats....

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Err, Montfort isn't downtown by even the largest stretch of the imagination. The three you mentioned are all pretty close to equidistant from downtown by my estimation.

Elisabeth Bruyere?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

Elisabeth Bruyere?

Not a full service hospital (no emergency room, etc).

I don't know anything about agricultural science or meteorology, but it does seem surprising that the intersection of Fisher and Carling has a unique microclimate that doesn't exist elsewhere on the farm (or on the greenbelt or elsewhere in eastern ontario). The arboretum has a fairly well-documented microclimate created by the escarpment but nobody is talking about building there.

The whole point is rather moot anyway, the provincial government does not have a new hospital on their radar (and given past history, will not prioritize an Ottawa project).

[1overcosc]

Very little would be lost by selling off the vast majority of the farm. The scientific value of continuity is only really relevant on maybe 10-20% of the land, all of it in the eastern fringes of the farm nearer Prince of Wales. The entire western portion of the farm nearer Fisher and the southern portion nearer Baseline are nothing special.

Science is changing. Crop research isn't about experimental breeding anymore, it's about gene manipulation. Outdoor space is only really needed to do final testing of experimental crops. Everything else is done indoors.

AAFC would jump at the opportunity to sell off half the farm and use the money to build new labs and buy new sequencing machines.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Very little would be lost by selling off the vast majority of the farm. The scientific value of continuity is only really relevant on maybe 10-20% of the land, all of it in the eastern fringes of the farm nearer Prince of Wales. The entire western portion of the farm nearer Fisher and the southern portion nearer Baseline are nothing special.

Science is changing. Crop research isn't about experimental breeding anymore, it's about gene manipulation. Outdoor space is only really needed to do final testing of experimental crops. Everything else is done indoors.

AAFC would jump at the opportunity to sell off half the farm and use the money to build new labs and buy new sequencing machines.

Are you an expert on this subject?

Regardless, I think the citizens of this city should have a say on what happens to an institution that has existed for 130 years. I think this creates a lot of distrust when the use of public land changes overnight, especially when it serves as a green oasis in the middle of the city. This is considered an important part of the heritage of Ottawa.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Are you an expert on this subject?

I'm an AAFC employee who works on the farm, in the division that handles requirements (office space, technology, etc.) for the researchers.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Regardless, I think the citizens of this city should have a say on what happens to an institution that has existed for 130 years. I think this creates a lot of distrust when the use of public land changes overnight, especially when it serves as a green oasis in the middle of the city. This is considered an important part of the heritage of Ottawa.

This is the other element to it. But I'm not sure how much heritage value a corn field provides. The AAFC buildings along Carling, however, certainly do. Not many people know this because of the extremely ugly 1970s Carling facade of the Neatby building that unfortunately is all most people see, but they're beautiful buildings and they're quite unique within Ottawa.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

Elisabeth Bruyere?

I've been there exactly twice: once to visit a specialist who has his office there, the other time, to wait for someone to die on the palliative floor.

It's not a hospital.

[Mugwumper]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Are you an expert on this subject?

Regardless, I think the citizens of this city should have a say on what happens to an institution that has existed for 130 years. I think this creates a lot of distrust when the use of public land changes overnight, especially when it serves as a green oasis in the middle of the city. This is considered an important part of the heritage of Ottawa.

A green oasis? The garden area, that leads to Dow's Lake, sure. The cornfield section, I'm not so sure. I will grant that it's nice to have a huge quiet area for joggers, dog walkers, and so on. But a hospital expansion is a lot more essential to community well-being. I've never ventured into the cornfields myself, but I've been to the Civic many times over the years. It gets (very) heavy use. Compared to the cornfields.

If the area around the garden and the older Carling Experimental Farm buildings were retained in some way, I'd be happy. They could re-landscape parts of that area to improve it for public use. Lots of possibilities.

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I've been there exactly twice: once to visit a specialist who has his office there, the other time, to wait for someone to die on the palliative floor.

It's not a hospital.

I've just been given a referral there... No longer feeling like that's a good thing.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I'm an AAFC employee who works on the farm, in the division that handles requirements (office space, technology, etc.) for the researchers.



This is the other element to it. But I'm not sure how much heritage value a corn field provides. The AAFC buildings along Carling, however, certainly do. Not many people know this because of the extremely ugly 1970s Carling facade of the Neatby building that unfortunately is all most people see, but they're beautiful buildings and they're quite unique within Ottawa.

So you're making it sound like they don't really care about the field research there. If so, why did they hire a man & dog to drive Canada geese away from the crops?