PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Minivan Werner]

The lack of lighting at the top does make it look like it's unoccupied or unfinished at night. It wouldn't take much. Just a ring of lights around the edge of the roof/chimney thing. They don't even need to strobe or change color or anything like that, and can be a blueish/silver color to match the building. I like the rest of it though.

The Gardens (or whatever it's called now) looks even better than the renderings. Really clean. I haven't seen it from the east side though.

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Article lamenting the loss of the architecture in Penn Plaza:

http://triblive.com/aande/architecture/9780445-74/buildings-penn-east#axzz3xSVradQF

I am actually pretty sympathetic to the argument we should be careful about wiping out "mid-century" architecture while it is in the death zone between contemporary and historic. Tasso Katselas's twists on brutalism (see the article) in particular generally don't appeal to me at all (it kinda works for a jail, but that is about it for me), but I am willing to hold aside my personal reaction and assume future folks could find these more interesting buildings.

But this here is the problem with Penn Plaza:

Little in the City matches that because that is terrible planning for an urban environment. And in fact that is why the Civic Arena had to go too--the buildings may have their merits when viewed in isolation, but the way they use urban land is awful.

And with that in mind, I think this argument leads to the opposite of the author's conclusion:

But it also deserves good planning, and that means Penn Plaza should go.

the problem is there is no more "planning", only real estate development

real architects don't make buildings - real architects make spaces

outdoor spaces


indoor spaces

[JVC]

planning in pittsburgh in a nutshell - the hockey team threatens to leave town if the we don't build them
a new arena and give them the civic arena site to develop, we tear down a great iconic building with a retractable dome
that was clearly an historic landmark, then pay an out of town firm a ton of money to make fancy renderings for the site,
meanwhile even us steel doesn't have enough money or demand to build there



how about we focus on filling the urban holes the downtown urban core instead of screwing around wasting time and money
on expensive renderings for huge peripheral sites like the lower hill and almono

these are not real, planned public spaces - they are urban holes that need to be filled in










and don't forget the massive urban hole on a prime fort duquesne blvd riverfront location




or these prominent holes on grant street

[BrianTH]

From high up, the top of PNC Tower literally looks unfinished--like some of the panels are plywood or something.

So I have some hope they are in fact planning to do something a little nicer up there--I don't think the sides will get wrapped, but some low-key lighting seems like a reasonable goal.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

I also thought it would appear a bit more bluish. Yes, along Wood it does look great, and I'm happy with it overall. The crown does look unfinished to me though. I thought that they were going to wrap it with the facade glass for a more continuous and sleek look. The black louvered-looking top is almost too mechanical for me (though I understand its function as the solar chimney).

But it will grow on me.




The view of the tower mass and the crown from the wast/southeast is pretty awful. It looks so squat, with too many different textures and shapes all over it. I do think some understated curving white LED lighting on the top could look really cool though.

Agreed that the tower mass looks really chunky from the southeast. Another 10 stories would've solved that issue. It's also disappointing how the tower is virtually invisible from the North Shore due to its middling height.

[Private D]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Agreed that the tower mass looks really chunky from the southeast. Another 10 stories would've solved that issue. It's also disappointing how the tower is virtually invisible from the North Shore due to its middling height.

Yeah, one thing I think we all agree on is that another 10 stories would please us tremendously. One would think that PNC would have taken the view/lack thereof from the North Shore into much greater consideration and added substantial enough height... particularly because the view from PNC Park could have provided a prominent showcase for the tower's top. I thought for sure that we would see a big, illuminated PNC staring back at us while sitting in PNC Park.

[JVC]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Yeah, one thing I think we all agree on is that another 10 stories would please us tremendously. One would think that PNC would have taken the view/lack thereof from the North Shore into much greater consideration and added substantial enough height... particularly because the view from PNC Park could have provided a prominent showcase for the tower's top. I thought for sure that we would see a big, illuminated PNC staring back at us while sitting in PNC Park.

this might come as a shock but pnc is not in business to "please" you,
and if the bank was experiencing tremendous growth they would have built a taller building to accommodate more employees

if the economy was experiencing tremendous growth the bank would have lent that money out at a profit
instead of parking it in a new skyscraper which has a cash flow of zero

[Johnland]

Originally Posted by JVC

this might come as a shock but pnc is not in business to "please" you,
and if the bank was experiencing tremendous growth they would have built a taller building to accommodate more employees

if the economy was experiencing tremendous growth the bank would have lent that money out at a profit
instead of parking it in a new skyscraper which has a cash flow of zero

Also keep in mind that big banks are being targeted for break ups by certain presidential candidates on top of increasing regulatory capital requirements. While these don't necessarily rule out taller bank skyscrapers, they don't exactly promote building conditions.

[nhoccoi2609]

Originally Posted by JVC

nice building - boring location

Slightly disagree

[Gilamonster]

Excellent point Johnland, and let's also remember the conditions of the economy when that building was being proposed. We were in the middle of the sub prime lending debacle and related big government bailouts and banks were clearly under a lot of scrutiny by the government as well as the general population. PNC very well may have had grander plans for that building but "toned it down" a bit for PR reasons as well as practicality.

[Private D]

Originally Posted by Gilamonster

Excellent point Johnland, and let's also remember the conditions of the economy when that building was being proposed. We were in the middle of the sub prime lending debacle and related big government bailouts and banks were clearly under a lot of scrutiny by the government as well as the general population. PNC very well may have had grander plans for that building but "toned it down" a bit for PR reasons as well as practicality.

While that might seem to be a popular notion as an excuse, it's not true. Size and design is mainly the result of sq footage need as well as requirements for its power-free ventilation and conditioning for ~40% of year. Increased height wouldn't have totally precluded it, but would have significantly reduced self-ventilation ability.

[Gilamonster]

It very well may be that the building's height was built as originally proposed and I was only suggesting logical possibilities. I cannot speak too much to the environmental side of things with the building, but even an outsider(which I am not) should be knowledgeable enough to see that square footage was not a prime consideration if at all. PNC has employees all over town and would love to consolidate some of that. The bank was on a massive growth spurt with the acquisition of National City and RBC. The few posts I see on here about the Tower at PNC being built "small" based on bank performance or square footage are embarrassingly wrong.

[Evergrey]

Marty's Market has closed.

http://www.post-gazette.com/life/food/2016/01/17/Marty-s-Market/stories/201601170240

[JVC]

Originally Posted by Gilamonster

It very well may be that the building's height was built as originally proposed and I was only suggesting logical possibilities. I cannot speak too much to the environmental side of things with the building, but even an outsider(which I am not) should be knowledgeable enough to see that square footage was not a prime consideration if at all. PNC has employees all over town and would love to consolidate some of that. The bank was on a massive growth spurt with the acquisition of National City and RBC. The few posts I see on here about the Tower at PNC being built "small" based on bank performance or square footage are embarrassingly wrong.

pnc bank performance measured in terms of revenue is flat


this is what strong performance looks like (google)



the pnc building is better than nothing but it ain't no steel building or gulf tower and the way it engages the street is bizarre

[ks2006]

Originally Posted by Gilamonster

It very well may be that the building's height was built as originally proposed and I was only suggesting logical possibilities. I cannot speak too much to the environmental side of things with the building, but even an outsider(which I am not) should be knowledgeable enough to see that square footage was not a prime consideration if at all. PNC has employees all over town and would love to consolidate some of that. The bank was on a massive growth spurt with the acquisition of National City and RBC. The few posts I see on here about the Tower at PNC being built "small" based on bank performance or square footage are embarrassingly wrong.

It was downsized. Was originally proposed to be 40 stories...

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=191309

too bad they didn't stick to that.

[Private D]

Originally Posted by Gilamonster

The few posts I see on here about the Tower at PNC being built "small" based on bank performance or square footage are embarrassingly wrong.

"embarrassingly wrong"... yikes, embarrassingly!

[JVC]

when you've got a half-billion dollar budget and the opportunity to build a corporate skyscraper
that simultaneously soars above the skyline and engages pedestrians at street level, this is what you do



and you figure out a way to add a plaza feature to the site, like this




evidently a "green" skyscraper means a tall building that doesn't have a green or outdoor space

when the seagram building was built no one had ever heard of LEED certification or "green" building,
but they knew how to design an amazing pedestrian plaza

[BrianTH]

PNC is a conservative company and they were never going to build taller for pure vanity reasons.

When first announced in early 2011, it was 40 stories with a $400 million budget:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/bus...ters-tower-Downtown/stories/201105240140

But by late 2011, Gensler came out with a somewhat different design that incorporated more green ideas, like the double "breathing" skin and working sloped roof. However, they wanted to keep the budget fixed at $400M, and that is apparently what led to the trimming of the height:

http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/business/s_766489.html#axzz3xeAnnCaX

The Tower at PNC Plaza -- the new headquarters of PNC Financial Services Group -- will contain 33 floors of office space and a sloped roof that will house equipment to help manage the building's environment, its architect said on Wednesday. The $400 million project will feature a double-glass exterior skin that will allow fresh air to circulate throughout, according to architect Doug Gensler, who described its latest environmentally friendly features. . . .

"We have set our cost at $400 million for the building, and not one penny more," Robinson said when asked if a change in design or environmental controls could cost more than anticipated. Adjustments will be made to keep the cost at that level, he said.

So, the budget was fixed, and it looks like upgrading the environmental features required reducing the height.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by nhoccoi2609

Slightly disagree

More details on Facebook's Pittsburgh office...

http://venturebeat.com/2016/01/18/facebook-is-opening-an-oculus-research-office-in-pittsburgh/


KDKA's Jon Delano reports:

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016/01/1...y-opening-research-office-in-pittsburgh/

[BrianTH]

of all places

F' you very much, VentureBeat.