HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #4601  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 2:46 AM
Coldrsx's Avatar
Coldrsx Coldrsx is offline
Community Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 69,028
__________________
"The destructive effects of automobiles are much less a cause than a symptom of our incompetence at city building" - Jane Jacobs 1961ish

Wake me up when I can see skyscrapers
     
     
  #4602  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 4:20 AM
ScreamingViking's Avatar
ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
Ham-burgher
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 7,472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
At first glance you would think alot. But Seats would be about 6-8 Million (commonwealth was an 8M project I do believe)

With the remaining 55 ish million I would literally build the endzones up and cramb as much concourse underneath them as possible. add all the washrooms and concession as possible.

60 million isn't enough for McMahon it needs 100M minimum. They need to add a strip private boxes up top, Redo the press box, The stadium needs an entire exterior shell added to for ecstatics mainly, Seats! Individual seats! my vote would be black with a strip of red like IGF or THF ,premium seating, they need to add usable space in the endzones just like they did with commonwealth, A continuous concourse, Get rid of those nasty 100 foot towers for the sound system and the light towers they are god awful. maybe a canopy if they really wanna get fancy

I honestly love the Idea of a reno'd McMahon Stadium if it's taken seriously. IMO it's always been the top candidate for renovation over replacement. It's close to the field, it's got great sight lines. The bones of the stadium itself are perfect. it's fairly intimate and It's got a great modern stadium shape to it unlike THF or BMO. If greenbay can enjoy lambeau field I don't see why Calgary can't enjoy McMahon. I don't see it as a downgrade from a new stadium in anyway
I think McMahon has a great shape for the CFL. A reno, if feasible, might be enough to extend its life for a while (though I'm just going by what I've seen on TV and what others have written here; unfortunately I've yet to attend a game there)

One potential issue: While there are central sections with individual seating which were done decades ago, would replacing the rest of the benches with seats be a problem now? That was partly why the Ivor Wynne "compromise" -- i.e., replace the south stands with a brand new structure, and renovate the north with new seating and amenities -- didn't fly... the north side's concrete risers were too narrow (and I can attest to this, having had season tickets in both the bare-bench upper sections and the benches-with-backs lower; the leg room was minimal in both). The other reason related to bringing things like stairways up to current building code.

Bench seats are probably a no-go in the CFL these days. Once the old Mosaic is gone, the only stadiums with them will be the archaic but wonderful Percival Molson and McMahon.

Whether that's even an issue though, if concourses and restrooms are the main complaint, is for others to say.
     
     
  #4603  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 5:48 AM
Berklon's Avatar
Berklon Berklon is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldrsx View Post
Being called a "cathedral" of anything is earned with time/history.

Maybe in 50 years.
     
     
  #4604  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 6:06 AM
craner's Avatar
craner craner is online now
Go Tall or Go Home
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,382
McMahon would need to replace the precast concrete sections in order to replace the benches with seats. They had to do this when they replaced the central portions back in the 80's.

I agree with the comments that McMahon has a great CFL shape, sight lines and spectators are nice and close to the field. That said I think it would take over $100 mil to make a renovation worth while if that's the route they ever decide to go.
     
     
  #4605  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 7:02 AM
elly63 elly63 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreamingViking View Post
One potential issue: While there are central sections with individual seating which were done decades ago, would replacing the rest of the benches with seats be a problem now? That was partly why the Ivor Wynne "compromise" -- i.e., replace the south stands with a brand new structure, and renovate the north with new seating and amenities -- didn't fly... the north side's concrete risers were too narrow (and I can attest to this, having had season tickets in both the bare-bench upper sections and the benches-with-backs lower; the leg room was minimal in both). The other reason related to bringing things like stairways up to current building code.
Another part of that issue with IW was by renovating one side and building new on the other you were essentially creating have and have not sections of the stadium.

Mitchell answers questions
Steve Milton Sep 01 2011 theSpec.com

And, Mitchell says, potential builders will welcome the idea of constructing the north stands from the ground up, rather than trying to work around existing flaws, many of which are major.

“That’s 100 per cent accurate,” Mitchell said. “This creates cost certainty in the construction phase. You never know what you’re going to find out when you renovate. It might have involved all kinds of (capital) expense that wasn’t anticipated. And this prohibits the city from potentially having to spend tens of millions of dollars in maintenance of the north stands in the next few years.”

Additionally, having renovated north stands with uncomfortable bench seating and the same washroom and concession facilities as in the past would have meant that the Cats, and the city, were going to operate, in effect, two different facilities.

“What was clearly emerging was a have-versus-have-not scenario on the two sides of the stadium,” he said. “And that’s not conducive to effective cost management or a good in-stadium experience.”
     
     
  #4606  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 7:16 AM
elly63 elly63 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,783
In the case of McMahon, the local group that was looking at getting a fieldhouse built, themselves pegged that cost at $200 million.

The fieldhouse (according to the city) is on their wishlist for infrastructure to be built. So whatever fault there was with the Flames group proposal, the idea of combining with the fieldhouse was likely a correct one, just the execution left people cold (pardon the expression)

Background:

Stampeders chief says 50-year-old McMahon needs a facelift
Calgary Herald October 17, 2011

CALGARY - Consider it Lyle Bauer's official call to action.

The president and chief operating officer of the Calgary Stampeders held a news conference on Monday afternoon to stress that McMahon Stadium is in need of a serious facelift and that it's also time for interested stakeholders to step up.

"I'm sure the people are aware," he said. "Especially our fans, our sponsors, and everyone else that it's critical for the Stampeders and this franchise and, I believe, this city for us to address a 50-year-old facility."

Also well aware this fact was not breaking news, Bauer noted every Canadian Football League team in need either has completed the construction of a new stadium, are planning to build a new stadium, or are in the process of improving their stadium.

Next year, a new stadium in Winnipeg is projected to replace the previous home of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers, Canad Inns Stadium. Meanwhile, Empire Field had been the temporary of the B.C. Lions while significant improvements were made to B.C. Place Stadium.

Hamilton's Ivor Wynne Stadium will be gutted and rebuilt in time for the 2014 season while Saskatchewan has started a push for a new downtown stadium. Massive renovations are planned to get Lansdowne Park up to standards in time for Ottawa's re-entry to CFL in 2014. And, finally, up north, the Edmonton Eskimos recently received a massive renovation at Commonwealth Stadium which included the addition of an indoor practice facility.

Now, Bauer feels it's their turn.

"It's difficult to watch Calgary fall behind the other cities," he said. "That's what's happening. Some may not want to hear that. But it's also very timely.

"It's something our fans deserve."

Bauer said concessions, washrooms, and general concourse amenities need to be improved for the comfort of their fans.

"It's important to us," he said. "The Stampeders, as you well know, are committed to the community. We believe that in order for us to keep going forward, we need to address the concerns of our fans and private partners."

The facility, which opened in 1960, is well utilized.

In addition to four Grey Cup games (1975, 1993, 2000, and 2009), it has hosted the 1988 Winter Olympics, various concerts, and the 2011 Heritage Classic between the Calgary Flames and Montreal Canadians.

The building is owned by the University of Calgary and operated by the McMahon Stadium society. It seats 35,650 for a football game while temporary stands add another 5,000 seats.

Bauer declined to reveal any budgets or costs - yet. Instead, he utilized Monday's press conference as a way of continuing the discussion.

"You have to understand that this is going to take a multi-party arrangement," he said. "That is one piece of it. We are waiting to hear from the University as far as that process goes ... it's time for many of us to step up.

"Every team in the CFL that has had a need, is addressing it in some way, shape, or form. The city is vibrant and pro-active and progressive and Calgary and southern Alberta need to step up and get after it."

Bauer is aware these things don't happen over night.

Prior to joining the Stamps in 2010, he was the president and chief executive officer of the Blue Bombers. He helped revive the struggling Winnipeg franchise by developing a sound internal business plan and restoring the relationship between the fans and the business community. He was also involved in Winnipeg's movement toward a new stadium.

"It took many, many years, but it is happening," Bauer said. "It goes through many twists and turns ... but it's also important to let our fans know that we have to be their voice."

Stamps want in
THE Canadian Press October 17, 2011

If money is being tossed at stadium building or renovations, the Calgary Stampeders want a piece of the action.

Team president Lyle Bauer said Monday the Stampeders are looking to upgrade 35,650-seat McMahon Stadium to make it a more comfortable, modern and profitable home for the CFL club.

Or if a new stadium is built, the Stampeders would be happy to play in it.

Amid talk of new NHL arenas in Edmonton and Calgary, and with CFL teams across the country either building or having just completed new facilities or major refits, he doesn't want his club overlooked.

"We want to make sure we're out there and make a point that we're the only club in the country with a 50-year-old stadium without plans for either a new one or a refurbished one," Bauer said in a telephone interview.

McMahon Stadium was built in 1960 for $1.05 million and is owned by the University of Calgary and run by a non-profit organization. It has expanded over the years, and had renovations in 2001 and 2005 mainly to add corporate boxes, but Bauer said more work is needed.

He hopes at least to improve the washrooms and concession areas, and add modern infrastructure such as a digital scoreboard and advertising bands that enhance the show for the fans and bring in more sponsorship and advertising revenue.

Bauer said extra revenue would help the Stampeders keep pace with other CFL clubs and fund the team's community projects.

He said there have been casual talks with various levels of government, but so far no formal plans for the stadium have been made. The club is looking at ways the work could be funded, including guaranteed loans and public-private partnerships.

And no time frame has been set for a project that would likely take several years. Until then, they'll make do at McMahon.

"I wouldn't say it's dire, but (the stadium) is very old," he said.
     
     
  #4607  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 7:19 AM
GernB GernB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lethbridge AB
Posts: 863
All these ideas about a McMahon reno are great, but as someone pointed out earlier on this thread, the U of C owns the place and the land it stands on. How much money they'd want for it, if they're even willing to sell, is bound to throw a hell of a monkeywrench into cost projections.

It's a bit of a shame, as it's well located on the Crowchild with LRT in easy walking distance, plenty of parking, good sight lines....but I'm afraid the sad fact is that the Uni will want so much for it that renos will be out of the question.
     
     
  #4608  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 7:27 AM
GernB GernB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lethbridge AB
Posts: 863
Quote:
Originally Posted by craner View Post
McMahon would need to replace the precast concrete sections in order to replace the benches with seats. They had to do this when they replaced the central portions back in the 80's.
.
I could be wrong but IIRC new precast were simply put overtop of the old, giving a little more legroom and decreasing the number of rows from 52 to 44 in the lower deck.

As I've stated before, the City really blew it when the full reno and expansion for the Olympics was dropped due to cost. The Saddledome overrun was more than the bids for the entire McMahon project. Then of course the land swap when the LRT was built turned the Stadium and grounds over to the University.

It's a real catch-22; the University hasn't the money to do a reno even if they wanted to, and the City isn't about to spend money on something that they don't own or control.

Last edited by GernB; Jan 17, 2016 at 7:48 PM.
     
     
  #4609  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 3:42 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,480
I wonder if any thought was ever given to the European soccer stadium model of a gradual, phased replacement of McMahon? If the Stampeders are simply not enough of a revenue generator to really pay for a new stadium all in one shot, perhaps it could be done on the installment plan?

For instance, they could do it this way:

Phase I - build stands in one of the endzones, which will partly enclose the field and offset seating losses during construction
Phase II - a few years later, demolish the west side stands and build a replacement
Phase III - a few years after that, demolish the east side stands and build a replacement

With the idea that over a span of about 10-12 years, there would eventually be a new stadium. Any Hamilton style concerns about "have and have not" stadium sections could easily be offset by making the old side the cheap seats, and the new side the pricier ones.

Calgary's current stadium site is a good one and I'd say that Winnipeg serves as a bit of a warning as to what could happen if you move to an inconvenient location. A lot of the problems at IGF have been remedied, but there are still people who remain convinced that going there is more trouble than it's worth.
     
     
  #4610  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 5:18 PM
Coldrsx's Avatar
Coldrsx Coldrsx is offline
Community Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 69,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
Being called a "cathedral" of anything is earned with time/history.

Maybe in 50 years.
Concur.
__________________
"The destructive effects of automobiles are much less a cause than a symptom of our incompetence at city building" - Jane Jacobs 1961ish

Wake me up when I can see skyscrapers
     
     
  #4611  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 7:16 PM
DLLB DLLB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Penticton, BC
Posts: 2,586
McMahon is a dump and a disgrace to Calgary!
     
     
  #4612  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 7:46 PM
Coldrsx's Avatar
Coldrsx Coldrsx is offline
Community Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 69,028
To be honest, I have enjoyed the games I have been to there, the only real issues for me are the washrooms/concessions. There is something about being in a smaller, less 'everything for everyone' stadium.
__________________
"The destructive effects of automobiles are much less a cause than a symptom of our incompetence at city building" - Jane Jacobs 1961ish

Wake me up when I can see skyscrapers
     
     
  #4613  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 7:59 PM
speedog's Avatar
speedog speedog is offline
Moran supreme
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldrsx View Post
To be honest, I have enjoyed the games I have been to there, the only real issues for me are the washrooms/concessions. There is something about being in a smaller, less 'everything for everyone' stadium.
I haven't been to other CFL venues but am wondering if they have the same pre-game and tail-gating festivities that McMahon does at every regular season game? This is something that I think would be lost if Calgary's CFL venue is moved elsewhere and those are a big part of what makes McMahon special for so many.
__________________
Just a wee bit below average prairie boy in Canada's third largest city and fourth largest CMA
     
     
  #4614  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 8:05 PM
Coldrsx's Avatar
Coldrsx Coldrsx is offline
Community Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 69,028
Esks have a very small, not worth attending one... sadly.

Rogers Place


edmontonjournal.com
__________________
"The destructive effects of automobiles are much less a cause than a symptom of our incompetence at city building" - Jane Jacobs 1961ish

Wake me up when I can see skyscrapers
     
     
  #4615  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 8:45 PM
FrankieFlowerpot's Avatar
FrankieFlowerpot FrankieFlowerpot is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,478
     
     
  #4616  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 11:12 PM
tomthumb2's Avatar
tomthumb2 tomthumb2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLLB View Post
McMahon is a dump and a disgrace to Calgary!
Amen to that brother.
     
     
  #4617  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 11:16 PM
tomthumb2's Avatar
tomthumb2 tomthumb2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by GernB View Post
I could be wrong but IIRC new precast were simply put overtop of the old, giving a little more legroom and decreasing the number of rows from 52 to 44 in the lower deck.

As I've stated before, the City really blew it when the full reno and expansion for the Olympics was dropped due to cost. The Saddledome overrun was more than the bids for the entire McMahon project. Then of course the land swap when the LRT was built turned the Stadium and grounds over to the University.

It's a real catch-22; the University hasn't the money to do a reno even if they wanted to, and the City isn't about to spend money on something that they don't own or control.
I don't really recall this happening. Have sat everywhere in McMahon and have never noticed any areas with more legroom.

That being said, I remain convinced that simple renos are not going to be enough to draw out the younger crowd - especially after they get a load of the palace being built in Regina.
     
     
  #4618  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 11:48 PM
Boris2k7's Avatar
Boris2k7 Boris2k7 is offline
Majestic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 11,960
Concessions aside, McMahon is one of the more enjoyable places to watch a game of football on a sunny July afternoon. Snowy November evening... not so much.
__________________
"The only thing that gets me through our winters is the knowledge that they're the only thing keeping us free of giant ass spiders." -MonkeyRonin

Flickr
     
     
  #4619  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2016, 12:26 AM
ScreamingViking's Avatar
ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
Ham-burgher
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 7,472
Quote:
Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
Another part of that issue with IW was by renovating one side and building new on the other you were essentially creating have and have not sections of the stadium.
Quite right. While the north stands were the "newer" of the two (having been rebuilt in 1971 ahead of the Grey Cup the following year; the south stands went up in 1959 I believe) there would have been major issues adapting other aspects of it to modern standards, beyond just the seating.

I will say this about it though -- it had lots of space for standing around pre-game or at halftime, I'd wager more than we have now. And I think it was less constricted than the current stands in terms of exiting after the final whistle.
     
     
  #4620  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2016, 11:54 AM
Oilkountry's Avatar
Oilkountry Oilkountry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,868
I scrolled through the RPB BMO construction thread, I have to say most of those guys are first class, Genuine concerns about the integrity of the TFC experience they are accustomed to, Not to much Argo hate/rants over there either than a few idiots. Completely changed my views on most of the TFC fanbase. A majority of them are mad about the north stand or lack there of, But for the most part the posts I read were understanding educated opinions, One even commented that the TFC/Argo head butting is a minority of both fan bases.
__________________
I don't want to hear your opinions on facts
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:31 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.