Highways in Canada

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Completely removing the TCH's status as the only road in the region would require a new road from almost Thunder Bay to just east of Nipigon... that would be about 100km through completely uninhabited bush.

And would be totally unneeded. With the double bridge over the McKenzie river, the only pinch points are the Black Sturgeon bridge and the Nipigon bridge - until is is finished. The road itself is not the issue as if anything happened (culvert washout) it could be repaired in a days and the traffic loads aren't that high on this stretch of the road.

Inconvenient yes, but not critical infrastructure in the true sense of the words.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The fact that this is the only road is less ridiculous when you consider how sparsely populated that part of Ontario is.

Completely removing the TCH's status as the only road in the region would require a new road from almost Thunder Bay to just east of Nipigon... that would be about 100km through completely uninhabited bush.

Given the importance to the country, though, we should most definitely have had twin bridge spans in place there sooner than 2017, don't you think?

This isn't the first time the country being "cut in two" in this way has occurred, if I recall.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Is it on Google maps?

Not sure, and it's been almost 30 years since I last drove them Ahh Polly Lake ....

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Given the importance to the country, though, we should most definitely have had twin bridge spans in place there sooner than 2017, don't you think?

Couldn't have done it sooner as the old bridge had to be removed first before construction could start.

And I can assure you that there was no provincial requirement for there "never being a single point of failure" during this bridge reconstruction.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Couldn't have done it sooner as the old bridge had to be removed first before construction could start.

And I can assure you that there was no provincial requirement for there "never being a single point of failure" during this bridge reconstruction.

The new bridge was constructed immediately adjacent to the old bridge to the north.

Now that the new bridge is finished, the old bridge needs to be demolished as it is in the way of the second span of the new bridge.

The location of the bridge is actually surprisingly constrained, given the sparse population of most of the the Lake Superior northshore. CP's rail bridge is located immediately south of the highway bridge, and to the north, the river quickly bends to the west, and begins to widen out into the mouth of Lake Helen. Additionally, there is a First Nations reserve on the eastern bank of Lake Helen to the north of the bridge, in addition to several homes fronting the river on the western side of the river. There wasn't really another obvious way for the new bridge not to have been built directly over top of the old bridge.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Couldn't have done it sooner as the old bridge had to be removed first before construction could start.

It wasn't really something like "September 2015" that I had in mind.

More like "1972".

[Stingray2004]

Hmmmmmmmm...

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

The new bridge was constructed immediately adjacent to the old bridge to the north.

Which is exactly what I said While I havent' been on-site, I am still pretty familar with it and the project constraints.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It wasn't really something like "September 2015" that I had in mind.

More like "1972".

Got it! Again though, really not that great a priority in the big funding scale of things. Think about how many bridge failures we've had in recent history and you could see that this was never considered critical.

Plus, there was another major choke point a McKenzie - which has only been removed. Once the second span is done, there's really only Black Sturgeon and then the Matawin bridges as choke points that couldn't be addressed within a day or so. Again, not really worth the money.

[MolsonExport]

that Nipigon bridge is floored (like some of us oldsters) by the passing of the Thin White Duke.

[ScreamingViking]

More details. Early still, and I'll be interested to learn why the bolts didn't hold, but this presents a much more optimistic point of view.

...

Bolts holding the girder to the bearing on an expansion joint broke on the bridge’s north side at 3:05 p.m. Sunday. When the bolts released, the cables staying the bridge tightened to support it, raising it about 60 centimetres.

Early Monday morning, engineers weighed down the bridge with 110 concrete blocks weighing 2,721 kilograms each.

Ministry of Transportation area contracts engineer Gary Weiss said safety was paramount in engineering modeling. He’s confident the added weight will serve as a temporary solution until the cause of the failure can be determined.

“The one great thing about this bridge is its very flexible and a lot of redundancies are built into this bridge. When things move, they look worse than what they really are,” Weiss said.

“When we built this bridge, we built it so it’s not flat the whole time. We built it on a curve so that the weight brings it back down and comes to rest on the bearings.”

...

Source: tbnewswatch.com - "UPDATE: Single lane of Nipigon bridge opened to traffic"

[vid]

A lot of people don't understand that structures like bridges and skyscrapers are built to move around. If they didn't, the kinetic energy put on them by wind and earth forces would cause them to break very easily. The vibrations and swaying are required to disperse the energy they're absorbing, and actually makes them stronger.

We have numerous viaducts connecting the city to the port, and if you stand with one foot on either side of an expansion joint when a transport goes by, you can actually feel each side move independently of the other. It's pretty neat.

Originally Posted by shreddog

FWIW, it may be possible to bypass the bridge as you used to be able to take bush roads around Polly lake to Cameron falls, but not sure if they're still maintained and definitely not fun in January

It's not passable, people have tried. The bush road between the Cameron Falls Bailey Bridge and the Trans-Canada Pipeline are too overgrown and poorly maintained, they've essentially deer trails. ATVs and Snowmachines can do it, but passenger vehicles can't. Maybe a 4x4 Jeep or something, but not a Hyundai Elantra and definitely not a transport.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Is it on Google maps?

No. It's barely even visible in Google Earth. Their maps don't actually connect the lines, so unless you know where to look, you won't even find it. Someone who lived in the area had to explain it to me.

Originally Posted by shreddog

And would be totally unneeded. With the double bridge over the McKenzie river, the only pinch points are the Black Sturgeon bridge and the Nipigon bridge - until is is finished. The road itself is not the issue as if anything happened (culvert washout) it could be repaired in a days and the traffic loads aren't that high on this stretch of the road.

Inconvenient yes, but not critical infrastructure in the true sense of the words.

There are also bush roads and side roads all along it, so detours are possible. The Nipigon River is truly the only point along the highway where there is absolutely no viable alternative.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Given the importance to the country, though, we should most definitely have had twin bridge spans in place there sooner than 2017, don't you think?

This isn't the first time the country being "cut in two" in this way has occurred, if I recall.

It happens numerous times per year. Highway 11 just north of the bridge was closed most of the day because of a transport truck fire, in fact. According to CBC, roughly $36 billion dollars worth of goods cross that bridge annually. It's nothing compared to the 401, but that's equivalent to more than twice Northwestern Ontario's GDP.

Thunder Bay got its first interchange in 2012. I've been saying it for years but I don't think you guys realize how far behind highway infrastructure is up here. We don't even have rest stops! At all! None! If you drive Highway 11, it's almost imperative that you bring a full jerry can with you (enough to fill your tank half way), or you might be fucked. No cell service either. The busiest highway in Northwestern Ontario is a four lane road with no median, and traffic lights roughly every kilometre. Street lights were installed on it in 2011!

We are remote.

Since 2003 the province has resumed highway building here (Mike Harris cancelled virtually all of it in 1995) and the bridge was supposed to be the crown jewel of the project. Thunder Bay's expressway will possibly converted to a freeway in 2018 and beyond (the big project set to follow this one), but that's not set in stone.

Originally Posted by Acajack

It wasn't really something like "September 2015" that I had in mind.

More like "1972".

1972 is probably when they would have done it, too. The Thunder Bay Expressway was built right around that time, it would have been logical.

They didn't actually complete Highway 17 until 1960. Traffic between Thunder Bay and Toronto before then used Highway 11, though most people would have taken a train or plane to get there instead.

[manny_santos]

I checked Google Maps and it does suggest an alternate route around the bridge involving Highway 527, bush roads, and the former Highway 801 back to Highway 11.

It would be good for a provincial Secondary Highway to go through that area to provide an alternate route and also provide some new recreational opportunities, perhaps an extension of Highway 527 to the north and east.

[vid]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I checked Google Maps and it does suggest an alternate route around the bridge involving Highway 527, bush roads, and the former Highway 801 back to Highway 11.

It would be good for a provincial Secondary Highway to go through that area to provide an alternate route and also provide some new recreational opportunities, perhaps an extension of Highway 527 to the north and east.

That route actually isn't viable, there are a few unmaintained gaps that almost all vehicles can't cross. It would take hours to make that trip, and there are no gas stations. With a severely declining population in the area (Armstrong only has about 200 people and could very well be de-populated in twenty years) it is simply not viable. We have way, way too many highways for our population as it is, and it's very costly and difficult for us to maintain them all. There is also virtually no reason for people in Armstrong to go to Geraldton or vice-versa, so the road won't even be practical to residents here except for forestry operations, which (if you look at where those roads go) tend to make their way to the closest settlement as opposed to forming connecting links between communities.

I think the most viable option is to just build the second bridge south of Nipigon instead of beside the current bridge, on a separate right of way. It would take longer and cost more, but that way, we could have a bridge out for an indefinite period without serious impact on the economy.

If a minor back-up route is desired, simply improving the road from Cameron Falls to Beardmore would be a better option.

[ssiguy]

I have to say I think the media is making a mountain out of a molehill.

So a bridge broke, in the scheme of things it's not much of a big deal. Let's not make it sound like it was a new Western separatist movement............the damn thing only stopped traffic for about a day. The dramatics over "cutting the country in two" makes for great headlines but 99% of the population won't cross that bridge this year.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I have to say I think the media is making a mountain out of a molehill.

So a bridge broke, in the scheme of things it's not much of a big deal. Let's not make it sound like it was a new Western separatist movement............the damn thing only stopped traffic for about a day. The dramatics over "cutting the country in two" makes for great headlines but 99% of the population won't cross that bridge this year.

The population might not, but that bridge carries a lot of goods.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I meant St. Helens IR. I must have got the towns in the area mixed up.

You mean Lake Helen First Nation AKA the Red Rock Band.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I have to say I think the media is making a mountain out of a molehill.

So a bridge broke, in the scheme of things it's not much of a big deal. Let's not make it sound like it was a new Western separatist movement............the damn thing only stopped traffic for about a day. The dramatics over "cutting the country in two" makes for great headlines but 99% of the population won't cross that bridge this year.

Why do I have the feeling that if the same thing happened on a BC highway your tune would be completely different, especially if it were a new bridge just completed. You for sure would not shrug a new major bridge failing on a major transcanada route as no big deal

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I have to say I think the media is making a mountain out of a molehill.

So a bridge broke, in the scheme of things it's not much of a big deal. Let's not make it sound like it was a new Western separatist movement............the damn thing only stopped traffic for about a day. The dramatics over "cutting the country in two" makes for great headlines but 99% of the population won't cross that bridge this year.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Why do I have the feeling that if the same thing happened on a BC highway your tune would be completely different, especially if it were a new bridge just completed. You for sure would not shrug a new major bridge failing on a major transcanada route as no big deal

Like the Port Mann Bridge?

What would have happened if 2 MONTHS after opening, the bridge failed??

[Kokkei Mizu]

Some time lapse videos I uploaded recently, I thought you guys might like:

403 Through Hamilton, Burlington, and Oakville. This was filmed 7 years ago, so sorry for the somewhat crappy quality...

• Video Link


And the 401 through Windsor with the newly opened sections. (Filmed this summer).

• Video Link