Phoenix Development News (3)

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

It's going to be a place called Oliver's Sophisticated Bean. More info here:

http://downtowndevil.com/2015/12/08/76132/brain-injury-survivors-coffee-shop/

Interesting story. It could do alright with Linear, Illuminate, Roosevelt Point, Proxy (maybe even get a few from Union) and the development going in at the former Paz site. I just realized in typing this how much the population is going to increase on Roosevelt. I think it is going to start to snowball into more retail as a couple thousand residents move in, in the next 12 months.

Back to Oliver's, it is a good niche for late night Coffee and drinks if you live on that immediate corner and don't want to venture far.

[CrestedSaguaro]

They are starting on the Union Market in the US Bank Center. This is going to be such a nice and much needed retail development for US Bank Center. Glad to see this happening!

I got in trouble by buidling security for snapping these pics, so enjoy!

[exit2lef]

^I hope any trouble was just for the interior shots. Building security should have no say over what you can photograph from the sidewalk.

[azliam]

I was taking a look today at the Central Ave underpass just south of Madison on Google street view and was wondering what everyone thought of it. I know it was built in 1939 or 1940, but it does seem a little underwhelming now. Does everyone like it in its current state or has anyone considered making enhancements to it, perhaps similar to either what was done to the 4th Avenue underpass in Tucson a few years back or maybe something completely different?

[biggus diggus]

It smells like human urine in there but it's an underpass so who cares?

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by azliam

I was taking a look today at the Central Ave underpass just south of Madison on Google street view and was wondering what everyone thought of it. I know it was built in 1939 or 1940, but it does seem a little underwhelming now. Does everyone like it in its current state or has anyone considered making enhancements to it, perhaps similar to either what was done to the 4th Avenue underpass in Tucson a few years back or maybe something completely different?

When the South Central light rail extension is built, I would expect it to be upgraded or maybe even rebuilt.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by azliam

I was taking a look today at the Central Ave underpass just south of Madison on Google street view and was wondering what everyone thought of it. I know it was built in 1939 or 1940, but it does seem a little underwhelming now. Does everyone like it in its current state or has anyone considered making enhancements to it, perhaps similar to either what was done to the 4th Avenue underpass in Tucson a few years back or maybe something completely different?

I think it's awesome just the way it is. It's definitely unique and has an art deco look to it. Here's a picture I took of it a few years ago.



The few old underpasses we have south and sw of downtown kind of remind me of those bridges over the LA river and other various streets and viaducts in los Angeles, although not as "grand". Those are quite famous and very neat.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

When the South Central light rail extension is built, I would expect it to be upgraded or maybe even rebuilt.

You bring up a good point. I believe the impetus for the renovations of the 4th Ave. underpass in Tucson was to accommodate a path for the new streetcar:

Old:




New:

http://www.architectureexposed.com/project/721/4th-avenue-underpass

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

Interesting story. It could do alright with Linear, Illuminate, Roosevelt Point, Proxy (maybe even get a few from Union) and the development going in at the former Paz site. I just realized in typing this how much the population is going to increase on Roosevelt. I think it is going to start to snowball into more retail as a couple thousand residents move in, in the next 12 months.

Back to Oliver's, it is a good niche for late night Coffee and drinks if you live on that immediate corner and don't want to venture far.

The cool thing about what are otherwise generic business concepts like Oliver's and Public Image (the salon in RPoint) is that they are tweaking their model to offer something a bit different... this sounds like it will be a much different kind of place than The Velo, for instance, even if coffee is the main draw. I agree that there will be a big demand for retail, which is why the lack of mixed uses in the majority of projects is a shame; there'll be the live/work spaces at enHance and Proxy, and the minimal retail within the Alliance Project. But, otherwise, there aren't many adaptive reuse opportunities available. Hopefully, projects like the Transwestern Micro-Housing Tower happen and provide more space.

exit2lef - When you discussed Paz's future space in the Alliance project, you didn't happen to get any indication of where it might fit in? I just can't see it fitting in either of the two small spaces in the original plans, so hopefully that means the massive lobby was downsized (which would support Kimber Lanning's comment that "space was carved out").

Surprised The Union marketplace is moving along - I thought it was several months away? I love the concept and think it is great for downtown to get that kind of retail mix, but I can't help but think it's a little far from the cluster of hotels and residential projects. Hopefully, it markets itself externally better than the 111 Monroe retail, and the rest of US Bank fills in. On the subject of 111 Monroe, are there really many viable options for the 132 n 2nd ave building the City is RFPing next door? I can't imagine it being converted to office or residential given its height and lack of parking... from what I found, it's ~6 stories at 60,000 square feet. Conservatively guessing that they'll double the ceiling heights, could a 30,000 square foot retailer be possible?

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

When the South Central light rail extension is built, I would expect it to be upgraded or maybe even rebuilt.

The underpasses are actually somewhat of an issue according to the preferred alternative study. From what I remember, a few somewhat strange recommendations were made because one of the streets (Central or 1st Ave) was deemed unfit, perhaps due to the grade of the slope?

Considering the amount of vacant land sitting on top of the underpasses, it's too bad they couldn't renovate one of them to accommodate subterranean platforms, with a Transit Center/Affordable Housing/Retail project above and Park-n-Ride to the south. Especially if USAC is renovated in-place, that part of the Warehouse District definitely has the most potential. It's too bad the closest stop is planned for Lincoln.

[Jjs5056]

Also, re: Arizona Center, the quote mentioned landscape improvements, parking, and retail expansion... for god's sake, what more can be done to the landscaping?! And, is a surface lot + garage (and underground parking for the offices) really not sufficient?

At this point, they really should demo the thing aside from the towers. 26 years later, the gardens haven't been enough of a draw to bring the foot traffic needed to sustain retail, and downtown is mature enough to not need a faux focal point anyway. The area north of Taylor could work out as ASU, PBC, etc. fill in.. but I'm not sure what can be done along 3rd, considering how awful the west side of the street is. I guess adding a focal point - like a theatre box office - at Taylor's terminus would be a step... and, a midrise residential building through Van Buren with a couple of street-facing restaurants for conventioneers could also work. I just don't see conventional retail taking off.

Would be interesting if they were able to build-out the remaining land and create an outlet mall.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

exit2lef - When you discussed Paz's future space in the Alliance project, you didn't happen to get any indication of where it might fit in? I just can't see it fitting in either of the two small spaces in the original plans, so hopefully that means the massive lobby was downsized (which would support Kimber Lanning's comment that "space was carved out").

When I've talked to the owner, he has mentioned the southwest corner of the new building, which would be the northeast corner of 3rd St. and Roosevelt -- essentially the same location he was in previously but with a different roof over his head. He described the space as being like Fez' in Roosevelt Square. A patio will wrap around the restaurant, and there will be plenty of space inside designed just for the restaurant's needs. Apparently, there will also be another restaurant space (tenant TBD) in the southeast corner of the building -- essentially the site of the former Bodega 420 house.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

When I've talked to the owner, he has mentioned the southwest corner of the new building, which would be the northeast corner of 3rd St. and Roosevelt -- essentially the same location he was in previously but with a different roof over his head. He described the space as being like Fez' in Roosevelt Square. A patio will wrap around the restaurant, and there will be plenty of space inside designed just for the restaurant's needs. Apparently, there will also be another restaurant space (tenant TBD) in the southeast corner of the building -- essentially the site of the former Bodega 420 house.

Ah, that's great and will help break up what was going to be dead space stretching from Linear through just west of the Bodega house. The site plan showed only two retail spaces - one where the Bodega was, and one just to the west. The rest was apartment amenity space, with 3rd/Roosevelt being nothing more than an "arts plaza" and fitness center, which would have been a waste of a great intersection.

Hopefully, both original retail spaces also remain considering how much space was demo'd in the process. 3 businesses along that stretch is certainly enough to at least keep an active vibe going. If that's the case, this is probably Alliance's best effort yet.

Original plan for reference: http://orbarch.com/index.php/mies_portfolio/on-the-boards/

[PHXFlyer11]

Question on Edison...

It looks like there are a lot of glass windows on the first floor. Will there be a retail space at all? I haven't heard anything to suggest that, but I think a small cafe or coffee shop would be a solid addition to the neighborhood. It would draw residents from One Lexington, Edison, the VA admin building, and offices directly south of Edison.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

Question on Edison...

It looks like there are a lot of glass windows on the first floor. Will there be a retail space at all? I haven't heard anything to suggest that, but I think a small cafe or coffee shop would be a solid addition to the neighborhood. It would draw residents from One Lexington, Edison, the VA admin building, and offices directly south of Edison.

No retail. Massive lobby+leasing+clubhouse areas on the ground level of residential seems to the be the latest trend/loophole developers use to say they are designing "active spaces," even though the spaces are 99% private.

People pay lip-service to the problems caused by the suburban design of the Central Ave offices, but this wave of residential isn't doing much to retrofit a real urban neighborhood. Not a huge fan of Muse, but at least residents can go to the salon or grab coffee without getting into their SUVs -- what option will residents of Edison, Highland, Broadstone Arts, etc. have? The more Central fills in with leasing centers, the more convenient it will be for residents to simply hop in their car and shop where they had previously.

Obviously, I'd love continuous retail from McDowell - Camelback, but I know that's unrealistic and am really not expecting/proposing that. I just don't get the vision for Midtown when there's been little effort to create a mixed use community. This is probably the area with the greatest potential- residential density, redevelopment opportunities, and of course Park Central's massive parking lot. On the bright side, many of the towers on the west side seem to be leasing out their ground level, but if those are filled with banks and/or not renovated to connect to the street, it's for naught.

As you suggested, something as simple as a neighborhood cafe (3,000 sq feet?) would have been a great addition to Edison. If each development dedicated just one small space, neighborhood gathering spots, convenience retail, services, etc. would start filling in and allow residents to actually live an urban lifestyle. Several Tempe projects follow this design and it keeps corridors like Apache active; you can't tell me that Highland - taking up a full city block - couldn't spare space for a sandwich shop?

[phoenixwillrise]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Also, re: Arizona Center, the quote mentioned landscape improvements, parking, and retail expansion... for god's sake, what more can be done to the landscaping?! And, is a surface lot + garage (and underground parking for the offices) really not sufficient?

At this point, they really should demo the thing aside from the towers. 26 years later, the gardens haven't been enough of a draw to bring the foot traffic needed to sustain retail, and downtown is mature enough to not need a faux focal point anyway. The area north of Taylor could work out as ASU, PBC, etc. fill in.. but I'm not sure what can be done along 3rd, considering how awful the west side of the street is. I guess adding a focal point - like a theatre box office - at Taylor's terminus would be a step... and, a midrise residential building through Van Buren with a couple of street-facing restaurants for conventioneers could also work. I just don't see conventional retail taking off.

Would be interesting if they were able to build-out the remaining land and create an outlet mall.

No freaking way should anyone nuke those gardens. I don't care if no one goes there that place is an oasis in the desert why would you want to destroy it?

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by phoenixwillrise

No freaking way should anyone nuke those gardens. I don't care if no one goes there that place is an oasis in the desert why would you want to destroy it?

Because they prevent the Center from being redeveloped in a way that isn't inward-facing. The gardens were built because Phoenix lacked the iconic structures used by Rouse in other urban malls... I think the city has grown up to the point that it doesn't need an artificial focal point.

Granted, I've always tried to envision renovations in a way that maintained the gardens, so I won't be disappointed if they stay. I just hope priority is given to street-fronting retail vs. garden-facing.

In the unlikely case that a hotel is built, I suppose the semi-circular structure could house the bar, restaurant, event space, etc. that opened up to the gardens. Or maybe, large-scale retail could front the surrounding streets, with restaurant/bars leading into the center? Any other ideas? I'm just hoping for more than a coat of paint.

[downtownphxguy12]

Went to the Dirty Martini on tuesday night. There was a work group of about 12 people and then 4 tables of couples there. Not too bad for a tues night i thought. Drinks were good but expensive but the food was great. Had some wings and a chicken sandwich. Place did seemed a little dated. Wish them luck.

Got my hair cut at Public Image last night (Roosevelt Point) by the owner. He said the coffee shop next door is supposed to open by the end of the month. He also said the retail space in roosevelt point along 4th st across from bliss rebar has several people working on a deal. A pizza and beer joint and a sub shop. i vote for pizza?

I work for an HVAC company. We got a set of plans for the development where Paz used to be. currently called Roosevelt Row. Basement and 1st floor parking garage surrounded by apartments on 3rd, and two retail spaces on roosevelt along with rental office.

We also got a set of plans to bid on a live work 4 plex on the NE corner of 5th street and roosevelt (currently empty lot)

[Jjs5056]

Good to hear that the 4th Street retail space at Roosevelt Point is seeing interest; I want to see more bars so my vote is definitely for the beer-serving option. Now, if only the bungalow next to Bliss were turned into a wine bar, the lousy building next to it into a 24-hour diner, and the Wurth House into a piano bar, we'd have a nice little nightlife cluster. Will be interesting to see the live/work spaces along 4th St/McKinley... hopefully, the leases require the space be used for retail (as opposed to a home office or den) and are as successful as Artisan Village. I assume the restaurant planned for Skyline's Fillmore/4th St space is a bust, but if Roosevelt Point does indeed get leased, 4th Street will still be a pretty nice row of businesses. Athough, while I appreciate all that was done to save it, the planned uses for the Wurth House are underwhelming: a Roosevelt Welcome Center and Local 1st AZ office. =/

Since so little retail space is being built (net loss of 4 spaces between Baron and Alliance), it'd be nice to see some of the long-vacant RoRo homes finally renovated - the Bliss duplex, corner of 5th St/Garfield, corner of 6th St/Roosevelt... also, it's too bad live/work didn't catch on until just recently; ~5 or so units along Roosevelt Point's McKinley frontage would have been a nice complement to Proxy, and any # of them would have been a welcome addition to the Linear fortress along 3rd Street.

downtownphxguy12, let us know if you see updated/final plans for the Roosevelt/3rd St project. What you describe matches the original design, but there had been discussion that the SE corner (3rd St/Roosevelt) was revised to include restaurant space for Paz Cantina. I would think such a change is reasonable considering how massive the lobby is, but Alliance is shady.
Here are the original plans: http://orbarch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/3rd-roosevelt-apartment.jpg

This is the project you are referring to on 5th St and Roosevelt: https://s3.amazonaws.com/infoarmy-screenshots/931721-1402914642100.png

Also, I had asked about "The Derby." According to the DVC, it seems that is the name given to Transwestern's potential micro-unit tower on 2nd Street/McKinley.

[azliam]

With the Novawest LLC Pin observation tower being essentially "dead" as of 2014, I'm wondering if there will ever be another proposal for an observation tower in Phoenix. I was scrolling through photos on google and came across this one proposed for Dubai that I thought was rather unique-looking (others may think it's ugly):

http://inhabitat.com/sustainable-spire-twisting-ivory-observation-tower-for-dubai/xten-lead01/

The thing that I liked about it was that it almost looked like a bird in flight (my partner says a whale's tail) and I believe one that somewhat resembled a Phoenix would look pretty neat, especially if lit up at night. I have to admit I was never a huge fan of the Pin only because I thought the roundness of it had been done too many times and it sometimes reminded me of a water tower. However, do you think a tower like the one proposed for Dubai would ever work here in Phoenix? If not, what would you propose?