Winnipeg Construction VIII

[Cyro]

Speaking of the iconic Palamino location...1133-1137 Portage ave.
Up for rezoneing..Demolish everything on the lot, rezone to RMF-L from C2.
Plan Construct: 4 storey 64 unit MF dwelling. 36 in ground parking stalls, 29 surface
parking stalls.

Jan.6 Executive Policy Committee
http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/ViewDoc.asp?DocId=14923&SectionId=&InitUrl=

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by beatlesque

CMHR, June 2014



- me

i wish they carried the darker blue glass all the way up the lookout tower. Kinda has that unfinished look to it.

sweet pic btw

[trueviking]

wow.

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/j...social-housing-winnipeg?CMP=share_btn_tw

[esquire]

Originally Posted by trueviking

wow.

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/j...social-housing-winnipeg?CMP=share_btn_tw

Ouch. That sounds grim, but I wonder whether the problems experienced there are typical social housing issues as opposed to anything specifically related to the architecture of this project. After all, even if the block had been built in a more conventional style, the people drinking and doing drugs would have still been living and doing their thing nearby... perhaps the architecture exacerbated that, but I'm not sure it's really what really caused this to fall apart.

That said, I wonder if there's any way to undo some of the architecturally-generated problems with Centre Village? I have to admit I wouldn't be crazy about living next to a wide-open courtyard, especially in that area. A few walls and fences may well be in order.

Incidentally, it's hilarious that this interesting piece of local news came to us via The Guardian. So now British newspapers are scooping the local ones... oh well, at least we still know where to look for analysis of pertinent Winnipeg matters like Blake Wheeler's corsi number.

[CoryB]

There are two levels of challenges with that development highlighted in the Guardian article: the public space and the layout of the private spaces.

The public space issue is a huge failure to understand the local market conditions. Those public courtyards don't really work here. A good example is the Japanese garden by the Convention Center. It is a perfect space but is basically non-existent in most people's knowledge of the city. The situation only gets worse if you put one in a neighbourhood with other issues and hide it from view.

The more important take away from the article that warrants a follow-up is how the private spaces are really not well suited to use. The Guardian cites a conversation with a single family about how the kitchen is on the one floor and the dining room is upstairs. That seems like the sort of basic requirement that even novice architects wouldn't miss so it feels like there is more to that story. Sadly it wasn't expanded on. Perhaps the design called for a dining room on the same level as kitchen and for some reason that one family is using it for a different purpose.

[esquire]

^ If you look at the 546 website it's pretty clear that they love the 3D layout approach to things. I personally don't see it as a big problem for anyone but senior citizens... a minor inconvenience at most, especially in relation to the other problems identified in the article.

The project does look pretty good, even if it isn't that well cared for. Driving by at night you see blinds in all kinds of disarray... something as simple as that can make the place look shabby.

[CoryB]

^^ A simple reality though is having designer blinds is a lower priority than putting food on a table. I know they cost more on the front end but having windows with the blinds between the panes could be a smart use case in social assisted housing.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

^^ A simple reality though is having designer blinds is a lower priority than putting food on a table. I know they cost more on the front end but having windows with the blinds between the panes could be a smart use case in social assisted housing.

That's the thing here - all the windows had perfectly decent blinds from the get-go. But then some of them were mashed and moved to the point where they look dingy. It's only a few windows but it's enough to set a bit of an ugly tone from the street.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by esquire

Ouch. That sounds grim, but I wonder whether the problems experienced there are typical social housing issues as opposed to anything specifically related to the architecture of this project. After all, even if the block had been built in a more conventional style, the people drinking and doing drugs would have still been living and doing their thing nearby...

There is an entire field/organization that would state otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_prevention_through_environmental_design

http://www.cpted.net/

[esquire]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

There is an entire field/organization that would state otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_prevention_through_environmental_design

http://www.cpted.net/

I'm not saying that you can't prevent crime through environmental design. What I'm saying is that if you put people into a relatively high crime area, they're probably not going to have a sublime experience regardless of how your home was designed.

It would take a lot more than one building to CPTED your way to low levels of crime and social dysfunction in that immediate area.

[1ajs]

In other news big movement on true North square whole lot fenced off bunch of demolition has happened to the lot fencing as well interesting...

[esquire]

Great rundown of downtown development by one Brent Bellamy in today's Free Press:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/winnipegs-skyline-looking-up-364094691.html

It's easy to lose sight of just how much is taking place now and how much has taken place over the past 5 years or so. As I have said before, when I first became a member of this forum, the biggest construction project going on downtown was the Humphry Inn on Main. That was pretty much it.

[1ajs]

There's nothing wrong with the design its the community around it resulting from having a sor near by and a pile of poorly run MB housing instead of blaming the design look at the actual issues and start dealing with those

[trueviking]

regarding the guardian article. I don't get how an 875 square foot apartment is somehow considered inhumane when a few blocks away in glasshouse people are rushing to pay $280k for 402 square foot condos.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by trueviking

regarding the guardian article. I don't get how an 875 square foot apartment is somehow considered inhumane when a few blocks away in glasshouse people are rushing to pay $280k for 402 square foot condos.

Pretty weird huh, putting a value on something changes everything!

[kenny]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Perhaps the design called for a dining room on the same level as kitchen and for some reason that one family is using it for a different purpose.

Exactly. How people use the space provided is their own choice. The one interviewed for the article happens to use their 'dining space' [next to the kitchen] for something else.

Perhaps a courtyard wasn't the right move [although the advantages in terms of natural light, semi-protected space for children, micro-climates, etc tend to outweigh the negatives] -- but what the article doesn't mention is that this courtyard is looked into by many many windows [with tenants behind those windows]. Why aren't these people reporting crime, drug use, etc. in their space?

The biggest issue here is that the project changed from a co-op to subsidized rental housing very late in the game. With this sort of housing potential tenants are on a waiting list for anywhere and when their turn comes up they are given the chance to move into what is available. If you've got a family of 6 or more, maybe this isn't the right place for you -- but the system doesn't really address this issue.

..
photo credit : James Brittain www.5468796.ca

[trueviking]

The article completely lacks context. It's really unfortunate. Unique design is a lightning rod for it, so of course everyone will jump up and down screaming I told you so.

I've been in that space when it was vibrant and active. Doors open, people sitting on the stairs. I always thought it was great. If it was a typical interior corridor block would that stop crime and drug use? Wouldn't that just happen in the alley behind like it dies everywhere else?

[trueviking]

It's also really bizarre that the video in the piece paints a completely different story but uses the same quotes. It shows kids playing in the courtyard quite happily. Shows how things can be spun.

[Cyro]

Putting aside the buildings architecture for a moment, the posters bringing up the Elephant in the room are quite correct, no matter what the buidling eventually looked like or what the final design (ie: courtyard ) and interior entailed.

The area in question has severe social issues and an extremely high crime rate. I'd like to cite my experience in the area but I don't believe it will benifit the discussion in the thread.

[BigG]

Originally Posted by esquire

Great rundown of downtown development by one Brent Bellamy in today's Free Press:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/winnipegs-skyline-looking-up-364094691.html

It's easy to lose sight of just how much is taking place now and how much has taken place over the past 5 years or so. As I have said before, when I first became a member of this forum, the biggest construction project going on downtown was the Humphry Inn on Main. That was pretty much it.

Good read.