Idaho Falls/Pocatello Development Thread

[flyinpenguin]

I read the brief article a couple of weeks ago about a new Marriott coming to the river area. Does anyone have any further details?

[IFguy]

Originally Posted by flyinpenguin

I read the brief article a couple of weeks ago about a new Marriott coming to the river area. Does anyone have any further details?

Yes, there is! Marriott is building a Springhill Suites just south of the Residence Inn. The old buildings have been demolished and now just waiting for the ground to thaw.

This project has been in the pipeline for a bit, there were a few hangups as far as new road construction and the city needed to replat the area to allow for condos, restaurants and shops.

No real specifics on the size of the building but I would imagine 4-5 floors and at least a footprint as big as the Residence Inn.

They hope to have this built by spring/summer 2017.

Hopefully this spurs some huge redevelopment in the area!

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by IFguy

Yes, there is! Marriott is building a Springhill Suites just south of the Residence Inn. The old buildings have been demolished and now just waiting for the ground to thaw.

This project has been in the pipeline for a bit, there were a few hangups as far as new road construction and the city needed to replat the area to allow for condos, restaurants and shops.

No real specifics on the size of the building but I would imagine 4-5 floors and at least a footprint as big as the Residence Inn.

They hope to have this built by spring/summer 2017.

Hopefully this spurs some huge redevelopment in the area!

4 levels the last I saw, but who knows.

Have you seen basically the one line comment, IFGuy, about McNeil possibly building a condo building south of the Springhill Suites? I guess with that one I'll believe it when I see it built. I'm confused about McNeil!

Construction starts in Feb.

[N2I.F.]

The new director of INL gave a numbers update as 2015 ended. While NuScale, the GAIN program, Cybersecurity and more will start or expand in 2016, INL added over 500 employees last year. We knew they were head hunting and still are. But to add 500 positions at an average wage of $88K, that helps explain our tightening housing market.

One other piece of good news is universities in Idaho and surrounding states finally seemed to get the message of what INL needs and hires. Potentially that is where the 350+ internships/post docs are coming from. I don't claim to know why, but it seems like more Idaho natives and students from Idaho universities, including BYU-Idaho, plus surrounding states are filling a lot of those positions. I would bet many did internships/post docs at INL.

INL alone is at 3,900 with 4,500 the target for the fall. Subcontractors provide other services. Then NuScale will get built. Watch it grow, but more buildings in town too.

IFGuy, I'm not positive of this number, but in looking at BMPO, I'd guess if there was an I-15 exit added for University Blvd./INL, it's slightly more south than we guessed. Maybe 27 or 2900 N. Not much, but it depends on how it connects with E. River Road. That one will certainly be planned and added before the other. Depending on programs at INL, who knows, there may be certain types of funding available as part of the projects.

IF 500 more vehicles/day went to University Blvd./INL, that's a lot for Broadway, Anderson and other to handle with their current counts. And it's not like the number will decrease.

[flyinpenguin]

That is exciting about the Springhill Suites, but it surprises me that a developer wouldn't invest a little bit more into an Embassy Suites full service hotel instead of another mid-category property. Room rates are typically only $10-20 higher at Embassy than a Springhill. Especially if the arena project gets off the ground, people would be more apt to stay in a nicer property. Is Woodbury the owner/developer of the Springhill? Apparently they operate the Residence Inn.

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by flyinpenguin

That is exciting about the Springhill Suites, but it surprises me that a developer wouldn't invest a little bit more into an Embassy Suites full service hotel instead of another mid-category property. Room rates are typically only $10-20 higher at Embassy than a Springhill. Especially if the arena project gets off the ground, people would be more apt to stay in a nicer property. Is Woodbury the owner/developer of the Springhill? Apparently they operate the Residence Inn.

BTW, Welcome Flyinpenguin. I look forward to your ideas and thoughts.

I couldn't agree with you more. I think I wrote that on the last page, indirectly, saying I wished it was a higher class of hotel. There are so many places a Springhill Suites could go. This is going to be beautiful riverview property. I feel like it is such a waste to put a Springhill there. Yes, the growing local and visiting tourists want another full service hotel. Yes, Woodbury owns the land and will own the hotel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was just 4th qrtr that SPG merged properties with Marriott. I guess to be fair, I don't know how far in advance a contractor has to get Corp.'s blessing or approval to build whatever brand. I do not know how Woodbury decided on a Springhill there. I was thinking a full service Marriott or Doubletree. But Embassy Suites works too.

I have to wonder if another developer has proposed a higher grade of full service hotel that Marriott/SPG approved? Nothing else makes sense to me. This should be the highest class hotel, given its location far enough off of Broadway and half of the hotel will have River views. I'm not trying to trash the Springhill Suites, I've stayed in one during one trip. That experience was enough for me.

I don't know what Woodbury is thinking. I don't know if they could change the brand even if they wanted to with a month to go. Woodbury is extremely pleased how much they have made from the Residence Inn. Woodbury did admit last fall they never, ever thought they would make the millions they have at the Residence Inn. I guess I see it as one of four problems:

1. A full service hotel is already spoken for by a different developer.

2. They really don't know the market. While they have a person in Twin Falls they don't have anyone in Idaho Falls. But they have a lot of shared ventures with Ball Ventures. Maybe Woodbury -Ball Ventures will build an upscale hotel. Ball Ventures might need the Woodbury experience to be a co-owner of a full service hotel. If that happened, I suspect it would go by the Events Center. That would be easy for visiting artists.

3. If McNeil really is going to build a condo building, Woodbury may think they will have to step in again and rescue that building. Maybe it becomes a full service Marriott/SPG such as Starwood, Double Tree or Embassy. Otherwise, maybe Woodbury thought a Springhill would "blend" better with an unknown condo building.

4. Or Woodbury only allotted X amount for this property and it's not enough for a full service. Marriott does build in clusters. I've seen them build four hotels together many times. I suppose if NuScale builds a building in TC or Eagle Ridge, maybe Woodbury wants their highest property closest to businesses that will be at INL generating billions. That makes sense to me too.

We just can't have business rising to the level it is at INL and not have a brand name, full service hotel. The Shilo needs a big overhaul. Potentially one problem is we shattered all hotel and tourist records for YNP in the summer. Several existing hotels considered adding a new wing for more rooms. I don't know who may do that, but the Shilo kept coming up.

What do you think? That question has bugged me since the day I heard it was a Springhill Suites. I'm so glad you wrote it as I seriously doubt I could have been as diplomatic as you.

[flyinpenguin]

Originally Posted by N2I.F.

BTW, Welcome Flyinpenguin. I look forward to your ideas and thoughts.

I couldn't agree with you more. I think I wrote that on the last page, indirectly, saying I wished it was a higher class of hotel. There are so many places a Springhill Suites could go. This is going to be beautiful riverview property. I feel like it is such a waste to put a Springhill there. Yes, the growing local and visiting tourists want another full service hotel. Yes, Woodbury owns the land and will own the hotel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was just 4th qrtr that SPG merged properties with Marriott. I guess to be fair, I don't know how far in advance a contractor has to get Corp.'s blessing or approval to build whatever brand. I do not know how Woodbury decided on a Springhill there. I was thinking a full service Marriott or Doubletree. But Embassy Suites works too.

I have to wonder if another developer has proposed a higher grade of full service hotel that Marriott/SPG approved? Nothing else makes sense to me. This should be the highest class hotel, given its location far enough off of Broadway and half of the hotel will have River views. I'm not trying to trash the Springhill Suites, I've stayed in one during one trip. That experience was enough for me.

I don't know what Woodbury is thinking. I don't know if they could change the brand even if they wanted to with a month to go. Woodbury is extremely pleased how much they have made from the Residence Inn. Woodbury did admit last fall they never, ever thought they would make the millions they have at the Residence Inn. I guess I see it as one of four problems:

1. A full service hotel is already spoken for by a different developer.

2. They really don't know the market. While they have a person in Twin Falls they don't have anyone in Idaho Falls. But they have a lot of shared ventures with Ball Ventures. Maybe Woodbury -Ball Ventures will build an upscale hotel. Ball Ventures might need the Woodbury experience to be a co-owner of a full service hotel. If that happened, I suspect it would go by the Events Center. That would be easy for visiting artists.

3. If McNeil really is going to build a condo building, Woodbury may think they will have to step in again and rescue that building. Maybe it becomes a full service Marriott/SPG such as Starwood, Double Tree or Embassy. Otherwise, maybe Woodbury thought a Springhill would "blend" better with an unknown condo building.

4. Or Woodbury only allotted X amount for this property and it's not enough for a full service. Marriott does build in clusters. I've seen them build four hotels together many times. I suppose if NuScale builds a building in TC or Eagle Ridge, maybe Woodbury wants their highest property closest to businesses that will be at INL generating billions. That makes sense to me too.

We just can't have business rising to the level it is at INL and not have a brand name, full service hotel. The Shilo needs a big overhaul. Potentially one problem is we shattered all hotel and tourist records for YNP in the summer. Several existing hotels considered adding a new wing for more rooms. I don't know who may do that, but the Shilo kept coming up.

What do you think? That question has bugged me since the day I heard it was a Springhill Suites. I'm so glad you wrote it as I seriously doubt I could have been as diplomatic as you.

Good thoughts. While I am not in the hotel business, I do enjoy following the goings on. I believe that Shilo is on it's way out. If I recall reading, one or two were up for auction some time ago (Salem, OR) building a Hampton or Marriott property seems to be the most popular investment these days. Ameritel Inns seems to have flipped a couple of properties to a name brand property and I think they only have 2 or 3 Ameritel's left. As to why Woodbury chose Springhill, perhaps there is a master Marriott development fee and since they have paid it for the Residence Inn then they can add another property for less money. Although Woodbury owns some Hilton concepts as well. They are redeveloping University Mall in Orem and will put a hotel there. Haven't heard which brand yet. Boise is finally getting an Embassy, and look how many years that took.

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by flyinpenguin

Good thoughts. While I am not in the hotel business, I do enjoy following the goings on. I believe that Shilo is on it's way out. If I recall reading, one or two were up for auction some time ago (Salem, OR) building a Hampton or Marriott property seems to be the most popular investment these days. Ameritel Inns seems to have flipped a couple of properties to a name brand property and I think they only have 2 or 3 Ameritel's left. As to why Woodbury chose Springhill, perhaps there is a master Marriott development fee and since they have paid it for the Residence Inn then they can add another property for less money. Although Woodbury owns some Hilton concepts as well. They are redeveloping University Mall in Orem and will put a hotel there. Haven't heard which brand yet. Boise is finally getting an Embassy, and look how many years that took.

Thanks for your positive remark about my ideas. I've learned a bit more in the last day which probably pertains. First, look at the Woodbury Hotels. http://www.woodburycorp.com/hotels. About three things stand out to me: 1. It appears the most recent Marriott built was the Springhill Suites in Draper. 2. Of the hotels displayed, only one, The Radisson, has an on-site restaurant. I didn't know Woodbury owned it. In the Radisson brand are the Country Inn and Suite Hotels. Ball Ventures has and may presently own some Country Inn and Suites in Bountiful and either Meridian or Nampa. 3. Woodbury really hasn't developed a better class of Marriott than the Residence Inn in Idaho Falls. I think they've built better class hotels then either sold or are very minority owners.

The take home points from that, I'm not sure if Woodbury has plans to build a better class of hotel. Certainly, they too, have built some Hampton Inns. But to be fair, I was surprised at how old some of those properties are. Not saying they aren't decent facilities, rather just saying others have built most of the new Hampton Inns, including Ball Ventures, owning the Foothill Dr. one between here and Provo. That reminds me of something I need to check.

Bottom line to me, I don't think Woodbury wants to build higher end hotels, at least currently.

I absolutely agree with your point. Woodbury has had to pay *Marriott Dues* they are wise to build another Marriott property and spread those fixed fees further.

Two earlier things I need to address. I wrote SPG and Marriott had merged. However, Starwood hotels are on their own website. I received my new Starwood AMEX this fall and the Starwood/Marriott merger was in a newsletter with my new AMEX. However, it's possible there is a waiting period before merger could happen. Or, I don't know how each is owned. Could be there isn't stockholder support. I'm certain I tossed that newsletter so I can't check any qualifiers.

Also, it didn't click for me two days ago that Embassy is a Hilton property. Ball Ventures will develop all Hilton in Idaho Falls, if not all Idaho south of Boise. BV has a license for another unnamed hotel in I.F. They own all four Hilton properties in Bonneville County.

Or, if BV wants to start working with another hotel chain besides IHC, Hilton and Marriott, BV will have to find a bigger hotel developer with more options of hotel brands with which to work. I think they've done that with some hotels they've built that are different brands. I also think they would build in SRL.

The only other thought I had about Woodbury, is check out their section basically about Assisted Living. I can see a Woodbury possibly partner with McNeil on a building that was condos and some higher care, independent units. In that sense, building a Springhill may allow more space for shared activities such as laundry, grounds keeping etc.

What do you think?

[flyinpenguin]

Originally Posted by N2I.F.

Thanks for your positive remark about my ideas. I've learned a bit more in the last day which probably pertains. First, look at the Woodbury Hotels. http://www.woodburycorp.com/hotels. About three things stand out to me: 1. It appears the most recent Marriott built was the Springhill Suites in Draper. 2. Of the hotels displayed, only one, The Radisson, has an on-site restaurant. I didn't know Woodbury owned it. In the Radisson brand are the Country Inn and Suite Hotels. Ball Ventures has and may presently own some Country Inn and Suites in Bountiful and either Meridian or Nampa. 3. Woodbury really hasn't developed a better class of Marriott than the Residence Inn in Idaho Falls. I think they've built better class hotels then either sold or are very minority owners.

The take home points from that, I'm not sure if Woodbury has plans to build a better class of hotel. Certainly, they too, have built some Hampton Inns. But to be fair, I was surprised at how old some of those properties are. Not saying they aren't decent facilities, rather just saying others have built most of the new Hampton Inns, including Ball Ventures, owning the Foothill Dr. one between here and Provo. That reminds me of something I need to check.

Bottom line to me, I don't think Woodbury wants to build higher end hotels, at least currently.

I absolutely agree with your point. Woodbury has had to pay *Marriott Dues* they are wise to build another Marriott property and spread those fixed fees further.

Two earlier things I need to address. I wrote SPG and Marriott had merged. However, Starwood hotels are on their own website. I received my new Starwood AMEX this fall and the Starwood/Marriott merger was in a newsletter with my new AMEX. However, it's possible there is a waiting period before merger could happen. Or, I don't know how each is owned. Could be there isn't stockholder support. I'm certain I tossed that newsletter so I can't check any qualifiers.

Also, it didn't click for me two days ago that Embassy is a Hilton property. Ball Ventures will develop all Hilton in Idaho Falls, if not all Idaho south of Boise. BV has a license for another unnamed hotel in I.F. They own all four Hilton properties in Bonneville County.

Or, if BV wants to start working with another hotel chain besides IHC, Hilton and Marriott, BV will have to find a bigger hotel developer with more options of hotel brands with which to work. I think they've done that with some hotels they've built that are different brands. I also think they would build in SRL.

The only other thought I had about Woodbury, is check out their section basically about Assisted Living. I can see a Woodbury possibly partner with McNeil on a building that was condos and some higher care, independent units. In that sense, building a Springhill may allow more space for shared activities such as laundry, grounds keeping etc.

What do you think?

Woodbury's newest Marriott property is probably the Springhill in Draper, but I believe the Hilton Garden Inn in Sandy is newer. I personally like Hilton Hotels. They have varied properties. When the new West Valley Embassy Suites came online, the downtown Embassy became a Doubletree Suites. The Doubletree Airport was a Hilton many, many years ago. This allows properties to stay in the Hilton portfolio rather than switch to a competing brand. Marriott has too many duplicates. Towneplace Suites is a step below Residence Inn, but both are suites. The Hilton Garden Inn has a nice little restaurant, so they don't have to give away breakfast. And Marriott does not have an answer to Hilton Garden. It will be interesting how they incorporate the Sheraton brands into the overall portfolio. Here in the Intermountain West we are hard pressed to find a Sheraton branded property. Ball Ventures does own Marriott University Park, so they have experience with the full service. My guess is that the proliferation of these hotels came about from developers owning the land and not being able to develop office or retail so why not put a hotel there. The other interesting company to watch is http://pegdevelopment.com/hospitality/ The Marriott/SPG merger probably won't close until mid-2016. The Boise Embassy will be owned by Gardner, so another interesting company to watch. As far as Asssisted living goes, good observation, could be another step in the evolution of these development companies.

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by flyinpenguin

Woodbury's newest Marriott property is probably the Springhill in Draper, but I believe the Hilton Garden Inn in Sandy is newer. I personally like Hilton Hotels. They have varied properties. When the new West Valley Embassy Suites came online, the downtown Embassy became a Doubletree Suites. The Doubletree Airport was a Hilton many, many years ago. This allows properties to stay in the Hilton portfolio rather than switch to a competing brand. Marriott has too many duplicates. Towneplace Suites is a step below Residence Inn, but both are suites. The Hilton Garden Inn has a nice little restaurant, so they don't have to give away breakfast. And Marriott does not have an answer to Hilton Garden. It will be interesting how they incorporate the Sheraton brands into the overall portfolio. Here in the Intermountain West we are hard pressed to find a Sheraton branded property. Ball Ventures does own Marriott University Park, so they have experience with the full service. My guess is that the proliferation of these hotels came about from developers owning the land and not being able to develop office or retail so why not put a hotel there. The other interesting company to watch is http://pegdevelopment.com/hospitality/ The Marriott/SPG merger probably won't close until mid-2016. The Boise Embassy will be owned by Gardner, so another interesting company to watch. As far as Asssisted living goes, good observation, could be another step in the evolution of these development companies.

Yes, the University Marriott is Ball Ventures. It certainly wasn't for the first 15-20 years. The Majerus years. I arranged for a leading MD from Hopkins to come to SLC for a conference once. The meeting was held in Murray, if I remember correctly. But I arranged for her to stay at the University Park Hotel (Marriott). She was thrilled as deer came down and she thoroughly enjoyed watching them. It was a change from the projects at Hopkins.

I agree with you and have thought for a few yrs. that Hilton's Garden Inn was the mastermind design. Other brands really have to go up a lot or just can't compete. The IF one (HGI) looks nice reflected on the river. Ball Ventures owns property south of the HGI. But they built the Home Suites in SRL. I think it would have detracted from the Snake River Gardens. But we'll see who gets that property. Plus I keep thinking the motel part of the Hotel on the Falls will get torn down and a bigger brand go in. That could be IHG or other.

Yes, the HGI in Sandy isn't that old. I'm not quite sure you were trying to say above, you think the Sandy HGI is a 2015 open? The Residence Inn, The Embassy Suites and Courtyard are older. I use to work p/t very close to where the Embassy Suites was built. That is probably a great example.

I worked p/t for a company that leased three of the four floors of the first Sandy office building. We heard back when we moved to that building on Centennial that Embassy Suites was going to build. I was long gone before they did. I don't know what makes them finally enter a Market. Maybe Hyatt. Some variations of Hyatt are getting built.

Starwood - - Some of my favorite hotels. I'm an equal opportunity Starwood lover. I've stayed in many. That's probably why Marriott isn't building higher end properties currently. Think of what the two chains will offer if the merger happens. Starwood has few properties in the Intermountain West. Marriott is a great merger for them in the region and elsewhere.

The Airport Hotels I rarely discuss. I would alert out-of-town colleagues not to stay at a few. I really can't say anything else except sometimes change is good and I never judge a chain based on a property or two.

Thanks for the link. Gardner I've heard of but can't place. I'll check them out.

I like Hilton's too. Marriott has some nice resorts and I credit them with the Residence Inn idea as they introduced the concept to business travelers and families staying longer than a day. But I'm with you, about three of the Marriott brands I see little to no difference between them. So one adds a mini fridge. Big deal.

Say the merger does go through with SPG and Marriott. Do you think we'll see some higher end properties built?? As I write this I am thinking of course that is how come they aren't building full service, higher end Marriotts. Starwood will have that brand of higher end hotels.

Any thoughts?

[flyinpenguin]

Originally Posted by N2I.F.

Yes, the University Marriott is Ball Ventures. It certainly wasn't for the first 15-20 years. The Majerus years. I arranged for a leading MD from Hopkins to come to SLC for a conference once. The meeting was held in Murray, if I remember correctly. But I arranged for her to stay at the University Park Hotel (Marriott). She was thrilled as deer came down and she thoroughly enjoyed watching them. It was a change from the projects at Hopkins.

I agree with you and have thought for a few yrs. that Hilton's Garden Inn was the mastermind design. Other brands really have to go up a lot or just can't compete. The IF one (HGI) looks nice reflected on the river. Ball Ventures owns property south of the HGI. But they built the Home Suites in SRL. I think it would have detracted from the Snake River Gardens. But we'll see who gets that property. Plus I keep thinking the motel part of the Hotel on the Falls will get torn down and a bigger brand go in. That could be IHG or other.

Yes, the HGI in Sandy isn't that old. I'm not quite sure you were trying to say above, you think the Sandy HGI is a 2015 open? The Residence Inn, The Embassy Suites and Courtyard are older. I use to work p/t very close to where the Embassy Suites was built. That is probably a great example.

I worked p/t for a company that leased three of the four floors of the first Sandy office building. We heard back when we moved to that building on Centennial that Embassy Suites was going to build. I was long gone before they did. I don't know what makes them finally enter a Market. Maybe Hyatt. Some variations of Hyatt are getting built.

Starwood - - Some of my favorite hotels. I'm an equal opportunity Starwood lover. I've stayed in many. That's probably why Marriott isn't building higher end properties currently. Think of what the two chains will offer if the merger happens. Starwood has few properties in the Intermountain West. Marriott is a great merger for them in the region and elsewhere.

The Airport Hotels I rarely discuss. I would alert out-of-town colleagues not to stay at a few. I really can't say anything else except sometimes change is good and I never judge a chain based on a property or two.

Thanks for the link. Gardner I've heard of but can't place. I'll check them out.

I like Hilton's too. Marriott has some nice resorts and I credit them with the Residence Inn idea as they introduced the concept to business travelers and families staying longer than a day. But I'm with you, about three of the Marriott brands I see little to no difference between them. So one adds a mini fridge. Big deal.

Say the merger does go through with SPG and Marriott. Do you think we'll see some higher end properties built?? As I write this I am thinking of course that is how come they aren't building full service, higher end Marriotts. Starwood will have that brand of higher end hotels.

Any thoughts?

I couldn't find an open date for Sandy HGI, but I'm guessing 2011-12? And actually there is a potential building boom about to occur in that area. This link should work:

http://s.lnimg.com/attachments/9B24586C-6344-4758-B6DE-D1DB26EB1909.pdf

You'll see in the description it says that there is a full service hotel planned for the project.

It was very lucky that West Valley was able to land the new Embassy Suites, which is the only full service hotel outside of downtown. The city had to step in as the financier and essentially do a lease to own. It must be working out since it seems busy, rates never below $119 and they have been an official hotel for Outdoor Retailers convention.

I was remembering that Grand Junction which is of similar size to I.F. has a full service Doubletree that has been there many years. The major difference is that G.J. has Colorado Mesa University which helps bring guests, although I don't think Rexburg has a full service hotel either, so I think the market could support it.

Marriott has many higher end brands with Renaissance, J.W., and even Ritz Carlton. Sheraton has Regis, and Westin. The Sheraton Aloft, and Four Points brands are great properties on the lower price point. I think Marriott would be smart to eventually consolidate some of the lower brands and streamline.

I did find out the other day that the Guest House chain is owned by Red Lion. Is the Hotel on the falls currently open ? Definitely need some redevelopment there. The problem I see is if too many more budget hotels get built then It would detract from landing a nice full service hotel.

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by flyinpenguin

I couldn't find an open date for Sandy HGI, but I'm guessing 2011-12? And actually there is a potential building boom about to occur in that area. This link should work:

http://s.lnimg.com/attachments/9B24586C-6344-4758-B6DE-D1DB26EB1909.pdf

You'll see in the description it says that there is a full service hotel planned for the project.

It was very lucky that West Valley was able to land the new Embassy Suites, which is the only full service hotel outside of downtown. The city had to step in as the financier and essentially do a lease to own. It must be working out since it seems busy, rates never below $119 and they have been an official hotel for Outdoor Retailers convention.

I was remembering that Grand Junction which is of similar size to I.F. has a full service Doubletree that has been there many years. The major difference is that G.J. has Colorado Mesa University which helps bring guests, although I don't think Rexburg has a full service hotel either, so I think the market could support it.

Marriott has many higher end brands with Renaissance, J.W., and even Ritz Carlton. Sheraton has Regis, and Westin. The Sheraton Aloft, and Four Points brands are great properties on the lower price point. I think Marriott would be smart to eventually consolidate some of the lower brands and streamline.

I did find out the other day that the Guest House chain is owned by Red Lion. Is the Hotel on the falls currently open ? Definitely need some redevelopment there. The problem I see is if too many more budget hotels get built then It would detract from landing a nice full service hotel.

My post didn't post originally. So just a few things. Thanks for the link The Renaissance Towers will be cool. After looking at the developments at Vista Station and the size and number of corporations, I feel like I need to play Subdivisions after viewing all those new corporations and the development of their big buildings. Rush.

Fourteen towers seem to be the favorite size right now for anything south of Murray. This is the Vista station link. http://www.boyercompany.com/projects/office/vista-station Between what Garner is doing at Renaissance Towers and Vista station, it's both a great model of how to develop international corps around rail and motor transportation and get the best workers from two MSAs. Some people love to trash Utah every chance they get so it's nice to not have you on that tired train.

I somehow don't quite understand what you are trying to explain with the Hilton Garden Inn in Sandy. Yes, WVC was lucky, or connected or whatever to have the Embassy Suites remain the Embassy Suites in WVC. Sandy got changed to the Hilton Garden Inn and the SLC Embassy Suite became a Doubletree. So rebranding did occur in two of the three properties. What am I missing? The new hotels for Vista Station, let alone dense housing aren't connected with the Hilton Garden Inn, formerly Embassy Suites in Sandy. I'll ask you to please explain what you are trying to point out again. I want to understand your points. Renaissance Towers aren't connected to any hotel. Another full service one would certainly make sense.

I checked more into Thackery Garn from your link. They confuse me greatly. They are building so many of those old Marriott brands in Layton. These are mostly the brands I hope will decrease. Their new Ventures in Idaho are La Quinta inns in Pocatello and Boise. I.F. has one, but the guy who use to own the Spectrum property changed the I.F. and C'da hotels several years ago. There is a license to a different company for a second I.F. L.Q. location, but the owner isn't Woodbury or Thackery Garn.

Thackery Garn has developed four more Hilton properties: A Hampton Inn and an Embassy Suites in Hillsboro, OR an Embassy Suites in HI and a Home2Suites in Richland, WA. What do you think their goals are? Is it just chance they have different brands for each state?

I'm going to post this much now. I don't want to lose everything like before.

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by flyinpenguin

I couldn't find an open date for Sandy HGI, but I'm guessing 2011-12? And actually there is a potential building boom about to occur in that area. This link should work:

http://s.lnimg.com/attachments/9B24586C-6344-4758-B6DE-D1DB26EB1909.pdf

You'll see in the description it says that there is a full service hotel planned for the project.

It was very lucky that West Valley was able to land the new Embassy Suites, which is the only full service hotel outside of downtown. The city had to step in as the financier and essentially do a lease to own. It must be working out since it seems busy, rates never below $119 and they have been an official hotel for Outdoor Retailers convention.

I was remembering that Grand Junction which is of similar size to I.F. has a full service Doubletree that has been there many years. The major difference is that G.J. has Colorado Mesa University which helps bring guests, although I don't think Rexburg has a full service hotel either, so I think the market could support it.

Marriott has many higher end brands with Renaissance, J.W., and even Ritz Carlton. Sheraton has Regis, and Westin. The Sheraton Aloft, and Four Points brands are great properties on the lower price point. I think Marriott would be smart to eventually consolidate some of the lower brands and streamline.

I did find out the other day that the Guest House chain is owned by Red Lion. Is the Hotel on the falls currently open ? Definitely need some redevelopment there. The problem I see is if too many more budget hotels get built then It would detract from landing a nice full service hotel.

I share your concern in your last sentence. I don't know that I.F. is sitting and waiting for hotel projects. There certainly is space at Exit 113 for cheaper brands or the West side of I-15 has plenty of room. This is where my much earlier comment about Woodbury potentially not knowing the market comes in. However, I think there is a good possibility Woodbury has plans for another property. Per the reviews about the Draper Summerhill Suites, apparently there is a *newer look/design* at Draper. That was the last property Woodbury completed. It would make sense the Idaho Falls property would have the new design as well. Maybe it blends better with the I.F. Residence Inn than the original design.

Given two hotels scheduled for Jackson Hole Junction and maybe another, winners in some ways will be those who gets the building built first so more rooms are available. I don't know the data about who stays at different properties. I do think a lot of young families travel to YNP and the Tetons and stay at budget hotels. Possibly kids like the Summerhill Suites better. It sounds like Home2Suites in I.F. added some really nice things for kids aND families. I was reading about Summerhill Suites in various large cities. They can add some things, including an onsite restaurant and more. I think it is safe to say no other development will get a Marriott property. Nor an SPG. I have zero idea who JHJ will have as hotels.


I'm aware of the higher end Marriott and SPG. I think I've stayed at all of them, I admit the Ritz is an experience not easily forgot. Same with the Four Seasons Westin and Sheraton can be nice. I've never stayed or seen a Sheraton Aloft. I've stayed in Renaissance and Ws as well. Especially after today, I think the Intermountain area will get some higher end properties after that merger.


In some ways it seems like a big game. Who has the rights and meets other criteria to develop which properties? I do think the Doubletree would be a good fit. With all the new INL workers hired the last 13 months with another 500 being recruited, different ages of workers will prefer different hotels.

That's interesting to know about Grand Junction. They have a VA hospital there too where procedures including open heart surgery etc. so that accounts for some who would select a Doubletree too. I had to look to see how Grand Junction lost so much. No wonder their population is the same as I.F.'s. Add in Ammon and Bonneville County and the number jumps from 60 K to 110K. Add Rexburg in at 30K and there is enough business traffic coming in, or leisure travelers who want full service. One of the biggest needs though is having more than one meeting room.

The Hotel on the Falls tower is open. Guests seem to like it. The corporation who owns it is in Denver. They work with all the chains. If they wanted to partner for another brand and restaurant where the motel part is, they have a long list. But I'm not positive they want to own two properties next to each other. They are a big unknown of what they will do. Interesting who owns the Guest House Inn. I hear so many complaints about that place. It would be awesome if the Red Lion would redevelop or sell. I thought Red Lion was scaling back. We need a PNW chain if we get the daily flight from Seattle. Given certain new projects at INL, I think that probability is high. They've done the test flights already. Oh the airlines.....

I look forward to your thoughts.

[flyinpenguin]

Originally Posted by N2I.F.

I share your concern in your last sentence. I don't know that I.F. is sitting and waiting for hotel projects. There certainly is space at Exit 113 for cheaper brands or the West side of I-15 has plenty of room. This is where my much earlier comment about Woodbury potentially not knowing the market comes in. However, I think there is a good possibility Woodbury has plans for another property. Per the reviews about the Draper Summerhill Suites, apparently there is a *newer look/design* at Draper. That was the last property Woodbury completed. It would make sense the Idaho Falls property would have the new design as well. Maybe it blends better with the I.F. Residence Inn than the original design.

Given two hotels scheduled for Jackson Hole Junction and maybe another, winners in some ways will be those who gets the building built first so more rooms are available. I don't know the data about who stays at different properties. I do think a lot of young families travel to YNP and the Tetons and stay at budget hotels. Possibly kids like the Summerhill Suites better. It sounds like Home2Suites in I.F. added some really nice things for kids aND families. I was reading about Summerhill Suites in various large cities. They can add some things, including an onsite restaurant and more. I think it is safe to say no other development will get a Marriott property. Nor an SPG. I have zero idea who JHJ will have as hotels.


I'm aware of the higher end Marriott and SPG. I think I've stayed at all of them, I admit the Ritz is an experience not easily forgot. Same with the Four Seasons Westin and Sheraton can be nice. I've never stayed or seen a Sheraton Aloft. I've stayed in Renaissance and Ws as well. Especially after today, I think the Intermountain area will get some higher end properties after that merger.


In some ways it seems like a big game. Who has the rights and meets other criteria to develop which properties? I do think the Doubletree would be a good fit. With all the new INL workers hired the last 13 months with another 500 being recruited, different ages of workers will prefer different hotels.

That's interesting to know about Grand Junction. They have a VA hospital there too where procedures including open heart surgery etc. so that accounts for some who would select a Doubletree too. I had to look to see how Grand Junction lost so much. No wonder their population is the same as I.F.'s. Add in Ammon and Bonneville County and the number jumps from 60 K to 110K. Add Rexburg in at 30K and there is enough business traffic coming in, or leisure travelers who want full service. One of the biggest needs though is having more than one meeting room.

The Hotel on the Falls tower is open. Guests seem to like it. The corporation who owns it is in Denver. They work with all the chains. If they wanted to partner for another brand and restaurant where the motel part is, they have a long list. But I'm not positive they want to own two properties next to each other. They are a big unknown of what they will do. Interesting who owns the Guest House Inn. I hear so many complaints about that place. It would be awesome if the Red Lion would redevelop or sell. I thought Red Lion was scaling back. We need a PNW chain if we get the daily flight from Seattle. Given certain new projects at INL, I think that probability is high. They've done the test flights already. Oh the airlines.....

I look forward to your thoughts.

Ok, my original comment was that Hilton seems good about keeping properties in the family. The West Valley Embassy was built from scratch and opened about 2 years ago. I believe the builder/developer: http://www.renascenthospitality.com/ was not able to obtain the money to build the hotel so the city stepped in and did a lease to own. Funny thing is If you look at their properties, the Embassy is the nicest one. My guess is that when they secured that Embassy franchise, the older one downtown had to flip to a Doubletree Suites.

At the south end of the valley, Sandy recently announced they are essentially out of build-able land so they are going up (in height). http://sandy.utah.gov/whats-new/news-single-view/article/the-cairns.html
The Vista and Renaissance are on the west side of I-15 in South Jordan. My feeling is that most companies that want to occupy these 4-5 story buildings want their name on the building and currently there is ample land to keep building. And that is why we aren't seeing a lot of height. My guess is that we will see an Embassy, or another Marriott full service built in this area within the next 3-5 years.

I think that I.F. needs to continue to capitalize on the Yellowstone traffic as well as build the event center and have the space to land some smaller conventions and meetings. That would help to land an Embassy, or Doubletree sized full service property. I.F. has a lot going for it such as strong I.N.E.L base, a fantastic mall in Grand Teton, which there is very few areas that have a mall that does that well with the given population. (see Pocatello) I did see where there is a Jackson Hole Marriott being built, but that area is so up and down with room rates. Probably 4-5 months they could get $200 plus, with the rest of the year closer to $100. Once the I.F. temple reopens, the room rates will probably take a jump.

[N2I.F.]

IFGuy, Great comment elsewhere. We might do better discussing that area here. I feel like some are not going to take the news about what Ammon has to do very well. There are reasons they picked Ammon to live. Wait until their property taxes go up. I'm not willing to answer questions or deal with the reactions of some. I didn't cause those problems. I do believe 8B might being doing the bridge first kind of a way to get Ammon's attention.

Check out the P and Z draft of the minutes from Dec. I didn't name who said what on purpose. I was surprised they said what they did. However, they were discussing Areas of Impact and the point was made that Hitt (they didn't name it but everyone knew) was a very long road with it getting longer as ScC Phase II and other properties are annexed into Ammon. Their point was Ammon is in I.F.'s area of Impact and I.F. is in Ammon's area of impact too.

But honestly, it was either Cramer or Buelter who said 8B told them to condense and supposedly Ammon was told the same thing but has done the exact opposite Annexing and approving those new developments. So I.F. and 8B are both very frustrated with Ammon. I thought it was too funny the commissioner told Iona to watch and learn

There is also some stuff about the Woodbury hotel and other property in the area. Sometimes I wonder who this Woodbury person is, given comments he makes. While it was RDA, not P and Z, I believe he is the one who told how much the Marriott Residence Inn had made for Woodbury I really doubt Woodbury wanted that info made public Check his comments about the railroad and lawyers. I hope he manages projects better than he speaks in meetings.

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by flyinpenguin

Ok, my original comment was that Hilton seems good about keeping properties in the family. The West Valley Embassy was built from scratch and opened about 2 years ago. I believe the builder/developer: http://www.renascenthospitality.com/ was not able to obtain the money to build the hotel so the city stepped in and did a lease to own. Funny thing is If you look at their properties, the Embassy is the nicest one. My guess is that when they secured that Embassy franchise, the older one downtown had to flip to a Doubletree Suites.

At the south end of the valley, Sandy recently announced they are essentially out of build-able land so they are going up (in height). http://sandy.utah.gov/whats-new/news-single-view/article/the-cairns.html
The Vista and Renaissance are on the west side of I-15 in South Jordan. My feeling is that most companies that want to occupy these 4-5 story buildings want their name on the building and currently there is ample land to keep building. And that is why we aren't seeing a lot of height. My guess is that we will see an Embassy, or another Marriott full service built in this area within the next 3-5 years. T

I think that I.F. needs to continue to capitalize on the Yellowstone traffic as well as build the event center and have the space to land some smaller conventions and meetings. That would help to land an Embassy, or Doubletree sized full service property. I.F. has a lot going for it such as strong I.N.E.L base, a fantastic mall in Grand Teton, which there is very few areas that have a mall that does that well with the given population. (see Pocatello) I did see where there is a Jackson Hole Marriott being built, but that area is so up and down with room rates. Probably 4-5 months they could get $200 plus, with the rest of the year closer to $100. Once the I.F. temple reopens, the room rates will probably take a jump.

Hi flyinpenguin, I have limited time right now so I just want to focus on two things from your post. I saw the Marriott in Jackson Hole as well. With Jackson Hole being named the #1 Ski Resort in the U.S., I think prices will continue going up for a while. I didn't totally explain that I think various developers see other hotels full in Idaho Falls and Marriott wants a bigger portion of the budget travelers and other hotel profits. The Fairfield isn't enough. Hotels in other cities weren't booked to capacity last summer like I.F. Some might be the airport, but I honestly believe it's the distance to the Tetons and YNP. There are so many families doing the National Park vacations, I think some developers want a bigger portion of the pie and believe people will select Springhill Suites over a Super 8 (or whatever it is called) and unknown Best Westerns etc.

Secondly, I think certain hotels will have a small increase in price when the I.F. temple reopens. I think the local hotels accommodated more tourists etc. because not as many rooms were reserved for weddings at the I.F. Temple. However, I think few newlyweds stay in Rexburg after they are married and I.F. got many of them. I don't know that Motel 6 will increase a lot, but maybe.

Bye for now.

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by flyinpenguin

Ok, my original comment was that Hilton seems good about keeping properties in the family. The West Valley Embassy was built from scratch and opened about 2 years ago. I believe the builder/developer: http://www.renascenthospitality.com/ was not able to obtain the money to build the hotel so the city stepped in and did a lease to own. Funny thing is If you look at their properties, the Embassy is the nicest one. My guess is that when they secured that Embassy franchise, the older one downtown had to flip to a Doubletree Suites.

At the south end of the valley, Sandy recently announced they are essentially out of build-able land so they are going up (in height). http://sandy.utah.gov/whats-new/news-single-view/article/the-cairns.html
The Vista and Renaissance are on the west side of I-15 in South Jordan. My feeling is that most companies that want to occupy these 4-5 story buildings want their name on the building and currently there is ample land to keep building. And that is why we aren't seeing a lot of height. My guess is that we will see an Embassy, or another Marriott full service built in this area within the next 3-5 years.

I think that I.F. needs to continue to capitalize on the Yellowstone traffic as well as build the event center and have the space to land some smaller conventions and meetings. That would help to land an Embassy, or Doubletree sized full service property. I.F. has a lot going for it such as strong I.N.E.L base, a fantastic mall in Grand Teton, which there is very few areas that have a mall that does that well with the given population. (see Pocatello) I did see where there is a Jackson Hole Marriott being built, but that area is so up and down with room rates. Probably 4-5 months they could get $200 plus, with the rest of the year closer to $100. Once the I.F. temple reopens, the room rates will probably take a jump.

I guess we each must have read the Renaissance Towers differently, or something. I thought those diagrams and announcements about the two towers so close to I-15, TRAX and Front Runner said 12 stories not four. I do know closer to the 13200 S. exit some buildings aren't that tall, but the mixed living units will be there compared to Renaissance at 10400 S. Oh well, 12 isn't that tall compared to other buildings downtown.

Where is the Ritz going to go in SLC?

It's always interesting to hear what others think should or shouldn't happen in an area. We'll have to see if the five - six different developers follow what you recommend.

Is the Garn part of Thackery-Garn based in UT or ID? Maybe it's Gardner in Boise. That Hillsboto, OR Embassy Suites is nice The one in Hawaii isn't bad either. The Hilton brands do look good, regardless of the brand. But I can't understand how come Thackery-Garn would develop two hotels in Hillsboro, OR and the Home2Suites in Richland, WA. What do you think?


I know I wouldn't mind having a Embassy Suites like the Hillsboro one

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by GrandTeton

Thanks for looking into this N2IF. It's too bad the city of IF doesn't make information like this more available.

There is no need to get snarky, because I don't frequent this site often. Also, I replied to Cottonwood because he used a source, which is much more reliable than just taking your word for it.

Grand Teton,

I selected this message both for what it contains and what it doesn't. As you know, I would greatly appreciate you writing with *I statements* vs. labeling me or anyone else. I think you know how I feel about people being personally responsible for what they write. I have respected so much of what you've contributed in many different ways. I'd like to read your views about some projects and other on the Bonneville County building horizon; however, I have to have an assurance from you that what happened on the previous page won't happen again.

There is a second part to this message, but it isn't appropriate to share it until you post a response, if you do. No response is a response.

For my part in what went wrong, I apologize to you.

[N2I.F.]

Reading the RDA minutes from Dec. is educational. Very educational.

Woodbury plans to make several upgrades to the Springhill Suites. It sounds like it may be better than I originally envisioned. Still not an Embassy Suites like the one in Hillsboro, OR or a Doubletree. But better than a standard Springhill Suites.

I hope at the meeting this week some RDA members confront the project manager for Woodbury (I do know his name but am not willing to write it here), about what certainly appears to be conflicting information. He told P & Z Woodbury owned three lots, as he mentioned the amount of interest in the other two lots already for restaurants. However, he told RDA Woodbury only owned the lot for the hotel. Those meetings were held within days of each other, not even a week. I believe everyone is owed the truth and an explanation if plans/ownership changed.

Woodbury got told what IF RDA could invest in this project. I feel like there is a power struggle, given what the overall costs and profits will be. Rene M. explained again Woodbury approached them essentially out-of-the blue for help and they had Kelsch, the Bonneville Hotel and perhaps one more unnamed project planned for 2016. Regardless, it wasn't like RDA sent out RFPs, Woodbury decided to build another hotel based on profits the Residence Inn earned in 2015.

IF RDA offered Woodbury $3.25 million and Woodbury wants $3.50 million. At one point in those Dec. negotations, the project manager said Woodbury wants it done right and if needed they would wait a year. RDA said they had other projects too and they couldn't commit to more money if Woodbury delayed starting as they couldn't pay anything past 2017. They offered to draw up a MOA for the $3.25 million. Woodbury basically said they would take everything they could get. Um, I wonder if he really understands what he said?

Woodbury's response was we want this done right plus only claiming they only had one lot, not three. Then they said building costs had gone up. Wow, that's a surprise (not). I wonder what they would be if they started in a year on a higher end brand? Somewhere in that mix Woodbury mentioned three key things, IMO:

1. Woodbury said they couldn't get bank financing for some costs. Wow, maybe Woodbury is building *Cheaper Brands* because they don't have the cash flow. I don't know that to be true, I was simply surprised they would have a bank finance this project- it's not a "W" Hotel.
2. Woodbury said the RDA was "not the only one who should be approached for funds." IDK if that was a veiled reference to McNeil Development or some other companies.
3. After a county commissioner went through the numbers again, stating very clearly there was a finite amount of money RDA controlled along with RDA was already committed to other projects, Woodbury said maybe they could maybe waive their Developer's Fee.

I don't know the numbers or other *incentives* Woodbury received for completing the five story Residence Inn. I do know extra incentives were included, potentially from the private sector. As long as that hotel stood uncompleted, I believe several other private businesses suffered. So I wonder if Woodbury wanted to see how far the *goodwill* of the RDA, private business and others would go to have another Woodbury hotel? Not Woodbury or any other developer will get the assistance they received on the Residence Inn.

So we'll see what happens this week. The RDA may opt to not develop some of the west side greenbelt for a while, or Woodbury may make their numbers work, or Woodbury might wait a year when everything costs more.

I wonder if there is another project which hasn't been made public yet? Or, does Idaho law currently allow RDA to be involved with a specific area for a finite number of years. Any thoughts? I know the Legislature has redevelopment, standardization of some terms and how RDA can or can't help so Idaho law is consistent throughout the entire state.

I'll write about Kelsch and the Bonneville separately as there are some awesome ideas for KELSCH.

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by flyinpenguin

Ok, my original comment was that Hilton seems good about keeping properties in the family. The West Valley Embassy was built from scratch and opened about 2 years ago. I believe the builder/developer: http://www.renascenthospitality.com/ was not able to obtain the money to build the hotel so the city stepped in and did a lease to own. Funny thing is If you look at their properties, the Embassy is the nicest one. My guess is that when they secured that Embassy franchise, the older one downtown had to flip to a Doubletree Suites.

At the south end of the valley, Sandy recently announced they are essentially out of build-able land so they are going up (in height). http://sandy.utah.gov/whats-new/news-single-view/article/the-cairns.html
The Vista and Renaissance are on the west side of I-15 in South Jordan. My feeling is that most companies that want to occupy these 4-5 story buildings want their name on the building and currently there is ample land to keep building. And that is why we aren't seeing a lot of height. My guess is that we will see an Embassy, or another Marriott full service built in this area within the next 3-5 years.

I think that I.F. needs to continue to capitalize on the Yellowstone traffic as well as build the event center and have the space to land some smaller conventions and meetings. That would help to land an Embassy, or Doubletree sized full service property. I.F. has a lot going for it such as strong I.N.E.L base, a fantastic mall in Grand Teton, which there is very few areas that have a mall that does that well with the given population. (see Pocatello) I did see where there is a Jackson Hole Marriott being built, but that area is so up and down with room rates. Probably 4-5 months they could get $200 plus, with the rest of the year closer to $100. Once the I.F. temple reopens, the room rates will probably take a jump.

flyinpenguin, There might be a different reason Woodbury opted for a Springhill Suites. While I always will now question Woodbury's cash flow, given what the project manager told the IF RDA about what banks wouldn't finance in this project, given other major projects in I.F., many construction workers will be in hotels. Between families traveling to YNP etc., business travel and all the construction/trade workers, this hotel might meet the budgets best of all those groups.

Let me know if you want to know 3-4 construction crews that are or will be staying hotels.
What do you think of that theory?