The Great Canadian Transit Thread - Page 390

caltrane74 · #**7781** Posted **Dec 29, 2015, 3:16 PM**

Another new streetcar was delivered right around Christmas

New Streetcar

If anyone is travelling to Toronto in the next few months, by then the entire Spadina line should have new cars.

(next up will be Harbourfront, and then Bathurst for 2016)

my photo

begratto · #**7782** Posted **Dec 29, 2015, 3:59 PM**

With the gradual introduction of the new higher capacity streetcars, is the TTC reducing service frequency on Spadina?

caltrane74 · #**7783** Posted **Dec 29, 2015, 4:07 PM**

I believe so, although shouldn't really be noticeable with the longer cars, and they still come pretty frequently.

These new streetcars are almost twice the capacity of the older models that were previously on this route.

Quote:

1 Capacity At 30.2 metres long, the new streetcars are about twice the length of the current single streetcars. While the old streetcars can carry 46 seated passengers and 86 standing; the new ones can hold 70 seated plus 181 standing for a total of 251. That should ease some of the passenger squeezing that currently occurs during rush hour, particularly on the overcrowded Queen and King lines.

lrt's friend · #**7784** Posted **Dec 29, 2015, 6:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74

I believe so, although shouldn't really be noticeable with the longer cars, and they still come pretty frequently.

These new streetcars are almost twice the capacity of the older models that were previously on this route.

This is always the slide to worse service. Ottawa has been very good at it, round after round of it, and then they wonder why ridership is declining.

ssiguy · #**7785** Posted **Dec 29, 2015, 6:32 PM**

^ I tend to agree.

While fewer and larger streetcars certainly help reduce the "bunching" problems, if the capacity is the same then to the riders it makes little difference. Whether you are packed on the old streetcar or packed on the new ones, you are still packed.

Admittedly these are more comfortable and especially in the summer with air conditioning. Has actual capacity increased with the new streetcars when you consider the larger streetcars but off set by lower frequencies?

Also, does the TTC use POP for the new streetcars?

caltrane74 · #**7786** Posted **Dec 29, 2015, 6:47 PM**

If Bombardier had gotten their act together with delivery, the TTC might have exercised their option for an addition 60 cars which would be more than the current old fleet when combined with the existing(standing) order for 205 cars. As things stand, they will keep the old fleet in service to accommodate ridership until more new streetcars arrive.

Even if the option isn't exercised, capacity will be up 30 to 40% even with fewer cars.

EDIT: POP (Proof of Payment) on all streetcars old and new.

ssiguy · #**7787** Posted **Dec 29, 2015, 7:32 PM**

Well then that is good news if the new streetcars offer significantly higher capacity.

POP is also very good and with the low floor streetcars, boarding/exiting is much faster and makes the system much quicker and user friendly particularly for the disabled and elderly.

miketoronto · #**7788** Posted **Dec 29, 2015, 9:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This is always the slide to worse service. Ottawa has been very good at it, round after round of it, and then they wonder why ridership is declining.

You have to take the service reductions into context. The new streetcars do have higher capacity. But that extra capacity does not mean that streets are going to go from every 2 minutes to every 30 minutes. We are talking about very minor schedule adjustments, from every 2 minutes, to every 3 minutes. Or every 4 minutes to every 5 minutes.

When service is operating every 5 minutes or less (or some would argue even every 7 minutes or less), you really don't have any benefit from running more service. Instead you get a lot of bunching and other scheduling issues.

If anything, minor schedule reductions by a minute or two, might improve schedule reliability and reduce bunching.

Nouvellecosse · #**7789** Posted **Dec 29, 2015, 9:08 PM**

Yes I'd agree with that. Generally trip frequency any greater than 8-10 trips per hour are for capacity, not rider convenience.

Innsertnamehere · #**7790** Posted **Dec 29, 2015, 10:02 PM**

The new streetcars are generally going to be changing frequencies by 30 seconds to a minute. Its the difference between a streetcar every 2:10 and every 2:40.. which given streetcar operating reliability will be essentially unnoticeable.

Spadina is essentially "full" of transit vehicles today, reducing frequencies will do absolutely nothing for ridership.

Besides, the TTC is likely going to be purchasing an extra 60 cars soon anyway, which means that frequencies will be back to their old spots within a few years.

The January service changes should see Spadina shift to 100% new streetcars, removing them from service on Bathurst and Queens Quay. This will be the first case of frequency reductions, as up until now the TTC has been treating them as a regular CLRV in terms of frequency planning.

Also of note, the TTC now has PRESTO on every streetcar. Tokens are of little use for those who primarily use the streetcar and subway network (YAY!). I have hopefully made my last token purchase, as I rarely ride a TTC bus, using the streetcar network for most of my TTC riding.

Chadillaccc · #**7791** Posted **Dec 30, 2015, 5:53 AM**

Once the provincial portion of funding is approved, this will be the single biggest transportation infrastructure investment in Alberta history, possibly the largest ever in Western Canada. It will be twice the cost of Metro Vancouver's Canada Line and over twice the length.

Carbon tax could pay for Green Line of Calgary's LRT, Rachel Notley suggests
Premier says revenue from levy on greenhouse gas emissions will flow to 'energy-efficiency investments'

CBC News | Dec 18, 2015 6:00 PM MT

Quote:

Premier Rachel Notley says Alberta's new carbon tax could provide the missing funding for the planned Green Line of Calgary's LRT system, a megaproject expected to cost $4.5 billion.

So far, there is a $1.5-billion pledge from the federal government toward the project and the city has devoted $1.5 billion of its own, but the provincial government has yet to specify how — or even if — it will pony up the remaining $1.5 billion.

In a year-end interview, Notley said she wants to make an "evidence-based decision" on how to spend $4.4 billion in uncommitted capital funds on infrastructure projects across Alberta, but noted that's not the only avenue for funding that may be available for the Green Line.

"There's also the potential for a case to be made for this through our climate-change plan," Notley said.

Alberta's planned tax on all carbon emissions — set to begin at $20 per tonne in January 2017 and increase to $30 per tonne in January 2018 — is expected to generate billions of dollars annually and Notley said much of that money will be used to make "make energy-efficiency investments."

...

Full story and video: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/notley-carbon-tax-could-pay-green-line-1.3372237

And a couple preliminary renderings illustrating that the line will be low floor

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/Pages/Transit-projects/Green-line/gallery.aspx

swimmer_spe · #**7792** Posted **Dec 30, 2015, 5:17 PM**

In Canada, we use 4 different types of DMU for passenger cars.

The old Budd cars, the O-train cars and the new UPX cars. They all run on the mianlines, but as I understand it, only thee Budd and UPX meet North America crash standards. Does anyone know what the difference between them that makes them meet or not meet the standards?

Mrs Sauga · #**7793** Posted **Dec 30, 2015, 5:27 PM**

When will King streetcars receive the new cars? I feel like that line needs it more than any other.

Nouvellecosse · #**7794** Posted **Dec 30, 2015, 6:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

In Canada, we use 4 different types of DMU for passenger cars.

The old Budd cars, the O-train cars and the new UPX cars. They all run on the mianlines, but as I understand it, only thee Budd and UPX meet North America crash standards. Does anyone know what the difference between them that makes them meet or not meet the standards?

The O-train cars are designed for European mainline and are smaller and lighter. They don't have the heavily reinforced frames that are intended to survive a collision with a N. American locomotive. The Europeans don't worry about that very much since they put all their passenger safety eggs in the collision avoidance basket. Plus, none of the locomotives they could collide with in Europe are as big.

The differences aren't going to be apparent based on appearance, but the NA mainline DMUs are going to be more expensive due to using more materials, and have poorer acceleration and/or fuel economy due to being heavier.

swimmer_spe · #**7795** Posted **Dec 30, 2015, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

The O-train cars are designed for European mainline and are smaller and lighter. They don't have the heavily reinforced frames that are intended to survive a collision with a N. American locomotive. The Europeans don't worry about that very much since they put all their passenger safety eggs in the collision avoidance basket. Plus, none of the locomotives they could collide with in Europe are as big.

The differences aren't going to be apparent based on appearance, but the NA mainline DMUs are going to be more expensive due to using more materials, and have poorer acceleration and/or fuel economy due to being heavier.

The UPX trains are more reinforced than O-trains?

So, for those lines that use Budd cars, would the UPX trains be a good alternative when the Budd cars finally reach the end of their economical life?

Nouvellecosse · #**7796** Posted **Dec 30, 2015, 6:51 PM**

I suspect the UPX cars could be used anywhere the Budd cars are used assuming they're similar enough in width and floor height.

begratto · #**7797** Posted **Dec 30, 2015, 7:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Sauga

When will King streetcars receive the new cars? I feel like that line needs it more than any other.

What King streetcars need is a dedicated right-of-way. I read in the Globe and Mail archives that there are up to twice as many people travelling in streetcars on King Street as there are driving in cars.

To a transit geek like me, it seems that it would be easy enough to implement: eliminate parking spots on both sides of the street, create short term parking spots on perpendicular streets to accomodate deliveries, taxis, etc. Anyone knows why the TTC and the city of Toronto aren't pushing for this? Loss of parking spots?

Nouvellecosse · #**7798** Posted **Dec 30, 2015, 7:20 PM**

The healthcare costs would be prohibitive from all the Rob Ford types having strokes and heart failure.

begratto · #**7799** Posted **Dec 30, 2015, 7:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

The healthcare costs would be prohibitive from all the Rob Ford types having strokes and heart failure.

All kidding aside, it wouldn't have to be a complicated thing like they did on Spadina or St.Clair, with an elevated right-of-way, shelters, etc. It could be so simple, why aren't they doing it?!? Nimbys?

Innsertnamehere · #**7800** Posted **Dec 30, 2015, 7:46 PM**

no political will. As Nouvellecosse said, many suburban Councillors would freak out.