Halifax Stadium Discussion

[hokus83]

The Future of Stadiums Might Be No Stadium at All http://www.wired.com/2015/11/the-future-of-stadiums-might-be-no-stadium-at-all/?mbid=social_fb

[q12]

Originally Posted by hokus83

The Future of Stadiums Might Be No Stadium at All http://www.wired.com/2015/11/the-future-of-stadiums-might-be-no-stadium-at-all/?mbid=social_fb

^
https://www.saitama-arena.co.jp/e/facility.html



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saitama_Super_Arena

This actually makes sense in Canada.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Or we could just go with something like in Swansea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Stadium

Built for 27 million pounds... that's likely cheaper than the library.

They host an EPL team and a English Rubgy team.

Saying we can't afford or shouldn't build something of this size is ridiculous.

Also, an MLS team is a better shot for building a base of Halifax fans.

[cjones2451]

I wonder if due to the success in Ottawa this year that a potential owner would want to step up with a proposal for a CFL Team and maybe some funds towards a stadium (maybe a P3 partnership like Landsdowne, Shops, condos, etc.)

Jeff Hunt has done a great job in Ottawa and has shown with the right people the team can be competitive quickly

Any White Knight owners in the Martitimes?

[c-way-dude]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Or we could just go with something like in Swansea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Stadium

Built for 27 million pounds... that's likely cheaper than the library.

They host an EPL team and a English Rubgy team.

Saying we can't afford or shouldn't build something of this size is ridiculous.

Also, an MLS team is a better shot for building a base of Halifax fans.

Halifax might be better off going after an NASL franchise. NASL is like a tier 2 soccer league in North America. There are franchises in Ottawa and Edmonton. U.S. franchises include New York, Indianapolis, Minnesota, Atlanta, and Tampa Bay. Most franchises play out of stadiums that seat 11-12k. If Halifax built an expandable 12k stadium, it could theoretically be used by St. Mary's and an NASL team, and be a good step towards a CFL-calibre stadium and a CFL franchise.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

Halifax might be better off going after an NASL franchise. NASL is like a tier 2 soccer league in North America. There are franchises in Ottawa and Edmonton. U.S. franchises include New York, Indianapolis, Minnesota, Atlanta, and Tampa Bay. Most franchises play out of stadiums that seat 11-12k. If Halifax built an expandable 12k stadium, it could theoretically be used by St. Mary's and an NASL team, and be a good step towards a CFL-calibre stadium and a CFL franchise.

Sounds like a good plan.

Can NASL teams graduate into the MLS?

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Sounds like a good plan.

Can NASL teams graduate into the MLS?

There is no promotion and relegation like in European soccer, but lower tier teams have applied successfully to be MLS franchises (Vancouver, Montreal, Portland, and Orlando are a few)

[c-way-dude]

When the CAO of HRM sent the recommendation to city council to spend money to determine the size, location, integration, etc. for a stadium, I wonder how much money he had in mind. Would it be possible to use a kickstarter campaign to raise enough to get the work done?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Can NASL teams graduate into the MLS?

They don't graduate in a relegation/promotion sense, but currently Minnesota United are due to join the MLS in a few years after proving themselves in the NASL as a business model and community. Average attendance for the league was 5,912 in 2015. Ottawa averaged 5,164 whilst Edmonton averaged 2,889. Surely Halifax could fall somewhere in between if the stadium were in the right place and there was a good amount of community engagement. Ottawa Fury are owned by the same group that owns the REDBLACKS and 67's so there's continuity there, and there's a small devoted fanbase locally.

If Halifax were to have an NASL franchise they would compete with Ottawa and Edmonton in the regular season and have the possibility of playing against Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver in the Canadian Championships.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Or we could just go with something like in Swansea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Stadium

Built for 27 million pounds... that's likely cheaper than the library.

They host an EPL team and a English Rubgy team.

Saying we can't afford or shouldn't build something of this size is ridiculous.

Also, an MLS team is a better shot for building a base of Halifax fans.

Great post. I missed it, but yeah, we should build something like this on the peninsula.

We're never going to increase downtown density-- have more families move in-- on the peninsula and downtown, if we build all the new sports facilities out in Bedford and Dartmouth. Very unfair and typical of shortsighted HRM policies.

[Hali87]

I don't think that's true. I don't think having a stadium adjacent is a big selling point for most families looking at where to live. If anything it seems like stadiums tend to be disruptive to residents. I doubt that most people would want to live next to one.

We don't fail as a city if every major piece of infrastructure isn't located on the Peninsula.

[Hali87]

It's kind of like asking "how are we going to attract anyone to live on the Peninsula when we keep building our airports in the suburbs?"

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Great post. I missed it, but yeah, we should build something like this on the peninsula.

We're never going to increase downtown density-- have more families move in-- on the peninsula and downtown, if we build all the new sports facilities out in Bedford and Dartmouth. Very unfair and typical of shortsighted HRM policies.

My father had his heart attack at a big game, striker hit the post, and 10 days later my mother and I put his ashes on the track a few feet from the line. Now the millionaires run over him.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I don't think that's true. I don't think having a stadium adjacent is a big selling point for most families looking at where to live. If anything it seems like stadiums tend to be disruptive to residents. I doubt that most people would want to live next to one.

We don't fail as a city if every major piece of infrastructure isn't located on the Peninsula.

Sorry, I disagree with this. I talk to a lot of young families who *absolutely* make home purchase agreements based on proximity to schools and youth sports facilities.

There's a HUGE difference for parents having to drive 15min at 7am to drop kids off at a facility on the peninsula, compared to getting up at 6am and driving 35min one way to get to Sackville or Bedford, and then 60min back with traffic. That's a big quality of life difference.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Colin May

My father had his heart attack at a big game, striker hit the post, and 10 days later my mother and I put his ashes on the track a few feet from the line. Now the millionaires run over him.

Colin -- are you serious? At Liberty Stadium? If so, that's a sad, but also nice story, in ways. If going to see the Swans is something your father loved.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Colin -- are you serious? At Liberty Stadium? If so, that's a sad, but also nice story, in ways. If going to see the Swans is something your father loved.

Not Swansea.
Here : http://www.nufc.com/html/ground4.html
and here : http://www.themag.co.uk/2013/04/expand-st-james-park/

Died 1989, he knew several of the club directors and players. A guy at a corner store told my brother about the deal for ashes of fans.
He once tossed a bunch Chelsea supporters off a train when they were pulling the safety chain and made them walk from Durham to London. As a police Inspector he wasn't fond of fans who caused problems because it required him to leave the game at half time and get his men prepared for the hordes descending on the station.
Before we moved to Canada I had been to games at most of the big stadiums in England. In Glasgow my wife and I were close to Celtic Park but I never went. I went to Ibrox for the Rangers v Celtic game and asked a mounted policeman which end of the ground was safe and he replied ' If it's safe you're wanting you'd no be here'. Went in and kept my mouth shut.
My one claim to fame is having played football/soccer with Bill Shankly.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Not Swansea.
Here : http://www.nufc.com/html/ground4.html
and here : http://www.themag.co.uk/2013/04/expand-st-james-park/

Died 1989, he knew several of the club directors and players. A guy at a corner store told my brother about the deal for ashes of fans.
He once tossed a bunch Chelsea supporters off a train when they were pulling the safety chain and made them walk from Durham to London. As a police Inspector he wasn't fond of fans who caused problems because it required him to leave the game at half time and get his men prepared for the hordes descending on the station.
Before we moved to Canada I had been to games at most of the big stadiums in England. In Glasgow my wife and I were close to Celtic Park but I never went. I went to Ibrox for the Rangers v Celtic game and asked a mounted policeman which end of the ground was safe and he replied ' If it's safe you're wanting you'd no be here'. Went in and kept my mouth shut.
My one claim to fame is having played football/soccer with Bill Shankly.

That's pretty awesome. Your father was a fan of the Geordies! St. James Park is indeed one of the great football stadiums in England.

Bill Shankly is an Anfield/Kop legend. How the heck did you come to play with him?

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Sorry, I disagree with this. I talk to a lot of young families who *absolutely* make home purchase agreements based on proximity to schools and youth sports facilities.

There's a HUGE difference for parents having to drive 15min at 7am to drop kids off at a facility on the peninsula, compared to getting up at 6am and driving 35min one way to get to Sackville or Bedford, and then 60min back with traffic. That's a big quality of life difference.

Ah, my bad. I was talking about a stadium that would be used for CFL or equivalent.

There are also quite a few sport facilities on the Peninsula, and Citadel High is literally surrounded by them. There could certainly be more, but there's the Y redevelopment in progress, Dalplex expansion in progress, Tower (SMU) was recently expanded, there are plans of some sort (IIRC) for the forum. From what I understand there's a shortage of arena space, but in theory some of the non-hockey programs (or other things that don't require regulation sized rinks) could be moved to the oval.

A flipside to your point about areas with this kind of infrastructure being attractive to young families is that if we don't build enough infrastructure in the suburbs, where it is spread more thinly, then life will be disproportionately shitty for the kids who grow up there (in many ways, this already seemed to be the case 10-15 years ago when I was part of that age group). This is something that is often forgotten in these discussions. I think the current balance is about fair, in terms of what's available. If anything I think upgrading some of the infrastructure in Spryfield and Dartmouth should be more at least as much a priority as the Peninsula's at this point. J.L. Ilsley was dated and ill-suited to modern technology or expectation when I graduated in 2006 and this past winter their roof caved in. The difference between JL and say, Citadel is much, much more stark than the difference between Citadel and CPA. I get the impression that the high schools in Dartmouth (particularly DH, PA, and CH) are much more like JL than they are like Citadel.

The same kind of goes for arenas and stuff like that. While it is important to encourage a sustainable lifestyle, it's also important to recognize that some areas have much worse civic infrastructure than the Peninsula at this point, and that it's pretty likely that people (including a decent number of youth) will still be living in these places 20, 50, 100 years from now.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Ah, my bad. I was talking about a stadium that would be used for CFL or equivalent.

It's a little confusing as we seem to have two parallel discussions going on, one about a CFL-grade stadium and one about public sports fields on the peninsula.

The second one perplexes me a bit as it always seemed to me that there were lots of sports fields on the peninsula, suitable for baseball, football, soccer, rugby, tennis, skating (oval), skateboarding, etc. If they are not available for locals, I would suspect that they are being poorly managed or underused?

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

It's a little confusing as we seem to have two parallel discussions going on, one about a CFL-grade stadium and one about public sports fields on the peninsula.

The second one perplexes me a bit as it always seemed to me that there were lots of sports fields on the peninsula, suitable for baseball, football, soccer, rugby, tennis, skating (oval), skateboarding, etc. If they are not available for locals, I would suspect that they are being poorly managed or underused?

No, we are talking about a way of thinking about stadium use that goes beyond "CFL" mentality.

Like the library is to some, a stadium is also a cultural landmark and Canadian Football or soccer aside, it should be both for use of lower level teams and our big franchises. We can do this for the cost in the range of the library.

That is why the primarily NASL and St. Mary's football usage, among other local teams and sports, seems to make the most sense from what we've discussed.