PHILADELPHIA | THE LAUREL @ 1911 Walnut | 604 FT | 48 FLOORS - Page 45

1487 · #**881** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 8:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

Tell that to the Pulitzer Prize folks:

http://www.pulitzer.org/citation/2014-Criticism

But what do those guys know?

Dude, I get that she is like a Goddess aren't these parts- this isn't the first time someone has name dropped her award as "proof" that her opinions are faultess. Pulitzers aren't issued by people who know anything about design. She knows how to use the English language well- that isn't in doubt. You remind of the kind of person who argues anyone who is rich must be smart because they couldn't possibly have a lot of money unless they were extremely intelligent.

Knight Hospitaller · #**882** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 8:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

And while you're at it, Boxbot, set up a new thread about meta discussions. Come to think of it, better make that an entire new subforum.

Inga is nothing thread.
Inga is a goddess thread.
Inga is just another contributor to the debate thread.

1487 · #**883** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 8:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

What an unnecessary meta discussion about Inga. Boxbot, new thread please.

But your comment was totally necessary. Got it...

iheartphilly · #**884** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 8:43 PM**

I'm gonna have to refer you guys back to post # 838 on page 42 of this thread for some much needed humor. Some folks' panties are in a bunch...LOL.

Philly Fan · #**885** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 8:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

Dude, I get that she is like a Goddess aren't these parts- this isn't the first time someone has name dropped her award as "proof" that her opinions are faultess. Pulitzers aren't issued by people who know anything about design. She knows how to use the English language well- that isn't in doubt. You remind of the kind of person who argues anyone who is rich must be smart because they couldn't possibly have a lot of money unless they were extremely intelligent.

No, DUDE, I was responding to your assertion that she's not even qualified to be a paid critic. I guess you missed that part.

But you go ahead and be utterly dismissive of the significance of the Pulitzer Prize and the knowledge and qualifications of those who award it.

Philly Fan · #**886** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 8:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Inga is nothing thread.
Inga is a goddess thread.
Inga is just another contributor to the debate thread.

Dude, as your law partner, I seriously hope you're billing this time.

Knight Hospitaller · #**887** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 8:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

No, DUDE, I was responding to your assertion that she's not even qualified to be a paid critic. I guess you missed that part.

But you go ahead and be utterly dismissive of the significance of the Pulitzer Prize and the knowledge and qualifications of those who award it.

She actually knows who John Notman is. I wonder if everyone here does? I only do because my Best Man (a real estate agent with a philosophy degree) is a very well informed architecture nerd. Whether Inga learned that at University or on the job isn't really relevant. I'm not saying that she's architecturally omniscient, but it's not like she knows nothing. Why is she any different than a movie critic? Sometimes I agree, sometimes not, sometimes a little of both. I don't let them tell me what to think nor have a knee-jerk counter-reaction. It's really the vehement naysayers who make her out to be more than she is.

iheartphilly · #**888** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 8:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

She actually knows who John Notman is. I wonder if everyone here does? I only do because my Best Man (a real estate agent with a philosophy degree) is a very well informed architecture nerd. Whether Inga learned that at University or on the job isn't really relevant. I'm not saying that she's architecturally omniscient, but it's not like she knows nothing. Why is she any different than a movie critic? Sometimes I agree, sometimes not, sometimes a little of both. I don't let them tell me what to think nor have a knee-jerk counter-reaction. It's really the vehement naysayers who make her out to be more than she is.

Well, I say she's doing her job well, if we are giving opinions of her opinions.

Knight Hospitaller · #**889** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 9:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

Dude, as your law partner, I seriously hope you're billing this time.

Ha! It's late on Friday and I get a contingent fee if this gets built.

Philly Fan · #**890** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 9:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Ha! It's late on Friday and I get a contingent fee if this gets built.

You mean WE get a contingent fee.

allovertown · #**891** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 9:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

But your comment was totally necessary. Got it...

Why are you always fighting with people? Why are you such an angry person? Jeeze give it a rest.

Cro Burnham · #**892** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

I'm gonna have to refer you guys back to post # 838 on page 42 of this thread for some much needed humor. Some folks' panties are in a bunch...LOL.

if you say anything about my bunched up panties, i'll kill ya . . .

Zoot · #**893** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 9:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

By that standard, most of us should just shut up and go home.

And here Zoot thought that we were doing something more productive today than talking about Wendy's.

Funny that you bring me up in that context as I actually do live on the square and have a direct view of this site soooo 1487's comment gives me authority to accept Igna's review as informative and helpful to our community.

Cro Burnham · #**894** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 9:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoot

Funny that you bring me up in that context as I actually do live on the square and have a direct view of this site soooo 1487's comment gives me authority to accept Igna's review as informative and helpful to our community.

I assume that as a resident of the square, you would also support a SuperWendy's-anchored mega fast food court fronting Walnut Street across from John Notman's church? The block could use a little diversity. Dave & Buster's would work too.

jsbrook · #**895** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 9:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

Unless she lives around the corner from the development I don't see why her opinions of an unfinished design matter. When you meet with community groups with a PRELIMINARY design you are doing so to seek input and get a consensus. The entire point of the exercise is that what is being shown isn't etched in stone. Offering a full critique based on 3-4 renderings of something that is still being developed makes no sense. She did the same thing on the LOVE park design before it was done and then it turned out the FINAL design which included stakeholder input wasn't as objectionable as she thought it was going to be. If you want to be a critic you need to at least establish what it is you would like to see. My experience is that she prefers a VERY small number of architectural firms and developers and whatever they propose is generally praised, but aside from that she is against almost everything and the reasoning is constantly shifting. I'm fully aware that different buildings have to exist within different contexts and there isn't a one size fits all solution, but she is on the record criticizing architects/developers for using almost every modern building material in existence. And whatever is being criticized is typically done with the inference that cost cutting is the primary culprit. I will repeat- she didn't like 10 Rittenhouse which tries to pay homage to it's masonry surroundings and it set far back from Rittenhouse square where it won't overwhelm those on street level or any other buildings with park frontage. With this building she is complaining about too much glass (as opposed to less glass and more masonry like material on 10 Rittenhouse), too much height and not enough setback. I also find the notion that having too many small retail entities on the lower level laughable. This is commonplace in CC where many storefronts within older buildings are quite narrow. In what world does having too many door openings and separate retail establishments ruin the pedestrian experience along a retail strip? How is this any different from chestnut street and walnut street between broad and 20th?

Rest. Give. It. It's the holidays. Take a valium or have a drink...there's lots wrong with the substance here, but I'm not gonna touch it. Let's get back to the building.

techchallenger · #**896** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 9:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

Offering a full critique based on 3-4 renderings of something that is still being developed makes no sense. She did the same thing on the LOVE park design before it was done and then it turned out the FINAL design which included stakeholder input wasn't as objectionable as she thought it was going to be.

The result you describe sounds like what she did was worthwhile to me. Inga Saffron is a stakeholder, as am I and most of the other people participating in this forum. If developers didn't want anyone critiquing (whether by nobodies like me at the bar or award-winning journalists in the daily paper) their preliminary designs, why would they release them and why would they release multiple versions? Inga's piece on the Rittenhouse proposal perfectly fits the definition of constructive criticism.

jjv007 · #**897** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 9:58 PM**

I've got to agree with 1487 on most of his comments. Inga constantly has a shifting standard on projects and her general stance on a bold new development is at worst, hostile, and at best, very cautiously optimistic. Everything unfortunately can't be completely perfect for all parties, more so especially for a large-scale project, so you can't expect it to be.
That being said, I think Inga was pretty fair in this article, though looking at her work as a whole leads to believe she is somewhat NIMBY-istic leaning. This is a great project in Chicago but not Philly? What the heck is that supposed to mean? Philly can have "urban charm" but that doesn't mean they need to stay away from projects that would be successful in other world-class cities. And Chicago is no Dallas either to be sure.
When the initial renderings for this project first came out a few weeks ago, I thought the response would be overwhelmingly positive, but was a little disappointed to see a very reserved attitude towards the project as a whole, with some even being almost completely negative. Sure, there was a good amount of positive sentiment to go around, but not as much as I had expected. Everyone came in with various complaints of why this project wouldn't/shouldn't work because of integration, respect to history, and other factors. And it's true, several of the points were legitimate.
I don't think Philadelphians can complain too much about the struggle for development, NIMBYs, and similar annoyances, however, when a project to me that seems a no-brainer to get behind is met with so much contention and disapproval. There are several people on the forum acting like this is just another run-of-the-mill project that should have to adhere to certain standards with little compromise or else not be approved. Do they forget how recently Philly was in poor economic straits and a development like this was not something to be scoffed at? Even now, in a period of relative upswing, this is a significant project that will contribute positively to the urban fabric of the city.
I think that's something we all can get behind.

Knight Hospitaller · #**898** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 10:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoot

Funny that you bring me up in that context as I actually do live on the square and have a direct view of this site soooo 1487's comment gives me authority to accept Igna's review as informative and helpful to our community.

Knight Hospitaller · #**899** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 10:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjv007

I've got to agree with 1487 on most of his comments. Inga constantly has a shifting standard on projects and her general stance on a bold new development is at worst, hostile, and at best, very cautiously optimistic. Everything unfortunately can't be completely perfect for all parties, more so especially for a large-scale project, so you can't expect it to be.
That being said, I think Inga was pretty fair in this article, though looking at her work as a whole leads to believe she is somewhat NIMBY-istic leaning. This is a great project in Chicago but not Philly? What the heck is that supposed to mean? Philly can have "urban charm" but that doesn't mean they need to stay away from projects that would be successful in other world-class cities. And Chicago is no Dallas either to be sure.
When the initial renderings for this project first came out a few weeks ago, I thought the response would be overwhelmingly positive, but was a little disappointed to see a very reserved attitude towards the project as a whole, with some even being almost completely negative. Sure, there was a good amount of positive sentiment to go around, but not as much as I had expected. Everyone came in with various complaints of why this project wouldn't/shouldn't work because of integration, respect to history, and other factors. And it's true, several of the points were legitimate.
I don't think Philadelphians can complain too much about the struggle for development, NIMBYs, and similar annoyances, however, when a project to me that seems a no-brainer to get behind is met with so much contention and disapproval. There are several people on the forum acting like this is just another run-of-the-mill project that should have to adhere to certain standards with little compromise or else not be approved. Do they forget how recently Philly was in poor economic straits and a development like this was not something to be scoffed at? Even now, in a period of relative upswing, this is a significant project that will contribute positively to the urban fabric of the city.
I think that's something we all can get behind.

I don't think too many (are there really any?) folks are ready to keep the vacant lots if they can't get exactly what they want. Folks just want to put in their two cents and see if something that's going to be very good for the city can't be made even better (while doing as much historic preservation as is at all possible - not just what's convenient). Sometimes we seem to go to war over small differences, as if our opponents were ready to give developers carte blanche on the one hand or kill a project on the other.

Londonee · #**900** Posted **Dec 18, 2015, 11:01 PM**

For what it's worth, Inga does "live around the corner." In Fitler Square N'hood.