Wich Canadians Metro Areas (over 100 000) are offering the best quality of life ?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

You seem shockingly upset with my personal opinion.

I listed my 5 above and only 2 are in BC. I know what I look for in a city and area to live in and no, the prairies outside of Calgary don't interest me.

If you love it, thats great, fantastic, happy for you. But I still don't consider them liveable. 90% of Canada is unliveable climate wise anyways. Outside of coastal and southern interior BC and southern Ontario, the country is FAR too cold to offer anything close to a good quality of life.

Again, thats my opinion and NO, it is not a BC bubble as you so call it. Just so happens BC is mountainous.

Edit: my main issue with the prairies is not a lack of mountains, it's a lack of oceans. If you notice my top 5 list, 4 of the cities are coastal or at least semi coastal (quebec city).

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but if you look back at your post, it could be interpreted as a statement of fact rather than an expression of opinion, particularly the first sentence. You seem to have done the same thing above with your comment on cold weather and liveablility.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Landscape and climate matter a great deal [to me] when it comes to liveability.

Outside of coastal and southern interior BC and southern Ontario, the country is FAR too cold to offer [me] anything close to a good quality of life.

Fixed that for you.

[svlt]

Canada's a rough place climate wise, can't debate that. Just because you are strong willed / tough enough to brave the -30s (F or C) doesn't mean most of the global population is able to. Although there are plenty of historical/political reasons why Canada's population for its country size isn't very high... just look along a map of population density and almost all of it is weighted towards the southern border. Simple reason: cold.

So, I wouldn't call it a "BC Bubble" or a "disease that afflicts people" because that's doing a real issue a bit of a disservice. A lot of people don't like dealing with the weather of the Prairies and that's perfectly fine. As well (to play the moderating side here), there is no reason for anyone to call any place a frozen wasteland - if it's a population center of hundreds of thousands of people who call it home there is a reason why.

I lived in Calgary for two years and people there had trouble understanding why I hated the weather so much. Great people, awesome upcoming food scene, lots of things to do and finally a planning committee that is starting to get more progressive. I could live there... if the winters weren't so brutal. I absolutely hated it - roads and streets were always dirty, running from car to home was like a marathon, nosehairs turning into frozen tendrils, antifreeze hardly working, remote starters and car plugs a near necessity (God forbid you had to take public transit if you didn't live on a C-train line, their bus stops aren't even heated... you could die). Yeah, not for me, and it doesn't make me or anyone else that hates it any less "tough" or worthy of ridicule. Half the people would probably die of heat stroke in Indonesia whereas I'd fit right at home without A/C! Coupled with the oil crisis there was no reason to stay there when I had the option of moving back into BC.

Anyway, point being... discussing the weather is very valid and a real issue, and we shouldn't be booted out of the country just because we prefer warmer climes but have our families/credentials/sense of belonging in Canada

With that, my bias is obvious (I've actually lived in all four of these places, so I can say I've never moved anywhere I hated to be in):

1. Victoria. Mildest and overall warmest climate, beautiful scenery, great outdoor activities. Just too quiet.
2. Vancouver. Rainy, damp, sometimes cold, but in 2015 it can be considered a true metropolitan global city worthy of world recognition.
3. Calgary. Like above, this place has all the charm of a smaller city but with many of the amenities, shopping and dining of a larger one. Loved living here...in the spring and summer. Brutally cold winters.
4. Kelowna. Quiet rich retirement place with a homogenous population. Beautiful scenery though and the third largest metropolitan area for those who need the "BC Bubble" climate to survive i.e. me and Bcasey25raptor.

[SignalHillHiker]

I'm curious if it's just what people get used to. Ayreonaut says he's never felt as cold in Calgary as he did many times in St. John's. I had the opposite experience. The prairies in winter may as well be another planet - I've never felt anything in St. John's that even comes close. I don't even own the same level of winter clothes I had to buy when I lived up there. You never need to plug in a car here. It's a whole different thing.

A few months ago I happened to mention a friend in Calgary to one of my coworkers and she said she used to live there, then recounted her story of deciding to come home. I've forgotten most of it, but basically: her car wouldn't start so she was at a public transit stop. It was too cold to sit so she was crouched down on her heels, coat pulled down over her knees and up around her head as best she could. Putting lip gloss up her nose to try to stop the pain. And she just started bawling and decided she couldn't deal with it anymore. That mental image just cracks me up - people must've thought she was insane.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'm curious if it's just what people get used to. Ayreonaut says he's never felt as cold in Calgary as he did many times in St. John's. I had the opposite experience. The prairies in winter may as well be another planet - I've never felt anything in St. John's that even comes close. I don't even own the same level of winter clothes I had to buy when I lived up there. You never need to plug in a car here. It's a whole different thing.

A few months ago I happened to mention a friend in Calgary to one of my coworkers and she said she used to live there, then recounted her story of deciding to come home. I've forgotten most of it, but basically: her car wouldn't start so she was at a public transit stop. It was too cold to sit so she was crouched down on her heels, coat pulled down over her knees and up around her head as best she could. Putting lip gloss up her nose to try to stop the pain. And she just started bawling and decided she couldn't deal with it anymore. That mental image just cracks me up - people must've thought she was insane.

Sounds like my first winter in Ottawa after several years in Toronto. My winter wardrobe was completely inadequate (eg I had never, as an adult, worn a hat for warmth). The low point came one day when I needed to cross an open area and cross a bridge to get to work. I tried the door of a nearby apartment building to see if I could step into the vestibule to warm up before setting out and, unfortunately, the door was locked. I seriously felt like they were going to find my frozen body out in the field!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Sounds like my first winter in Ottawa after several years in Toronto. My winter wardrobe was completely inadequate (eg I had never, as an adult, worn a hat for warmth). The low point came one day when I needed to cross an open area and cross a bridge to get to work. I tried the door of a nearby apartment building to see if I could step into the vestibule to warm up before setting out and, unfortunately, the door was locked. I seriously felt like they were going to find my frozen body out in the field!

I know exactly what you mean by this. I do think at least part of it is poor urban design. Montreal and some other cities are just as cold or colder than Ottawa but this phenomenon doesn't seem to be nearly as bad.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Sounds like my first winter in Ottawa after several years in Toronto. My winter wardrobe was completely inadequate (eg I had never, as an adult, worn a hat for warmth). The low point came one day when I needed to cross an open area and cross a bridge to get to work. I tried the door of a nearby apartment building to see if I could step into the vestibule to warm up before setting out and, unfortunately, the door was locked. I seriously felt like they were going to find my frozen body out in the field!

This is giving me serious flashbacks to living in Ottawa. We lived near Lincoln Fields transitway station, which was very aptly named. You had to walk an uncomfortable distance through A FIELD to get to the station. Someone thought it was a good idea to put high density condos and apartments just far enough away from transit that walking during the winter is uncomfortable.

There were a few times where walking home late at night after drinks downtown when it was -20 the idea of just lying down in the snowbank seemed far too appealing.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

This is giving me serious flashbacks to living in Ottawa. We lived near Lincoln Fields transitway station, which was very aptly named. You had to walk an uncomfortable distance through A FIELD to get to the station. Someone thought it was a good idea to put high density condos and apartments just far enough away from transit that walking during the winter is uncomfortable.

There were a few times where walking home late at night after drinks downtown when it was -20 the idea of just lying down in the snowbank seemed far too appealing.

Much of postwar Ottawa reflects the vision of French urbanist Jacques Gréber, who was hired by Mackenzie King to make the city more grand. Newer areas reflect the influence of Le Corbusier on Gréber with government and public buildings plopped in the middle of expansive green space (or concrete spaces), and wide boulevards with grassy medians and verges.

It's also quite reminiscent of Oscar Niemeyer's official Brasilia and Burley Griffin's Canberra.

The problem is that it's not particularly well-suited to Ottawa's winters, and these grand open green or concrete spaces are windsept, blustery and inhospitable for much of the year.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'm curious if it's just what people get used to. Ayreonaut says he's never felt as cold in Calgary as he did many times in St. John's. I had the opposite experience. The prairies in winter may as well be another planet - I've never felt anything in St. John's that even comes close. I don't even own the same level of winter clothes I had to buy when I lived up there. You never need to plug in a car here. It's a whole different thing.

A few months ago I happened to mention a friend in Calgary to one of my coworkers and she said she used to live there, then recounted her story of deciding to come home. I've forgotten most of it, but basically: her car wouldn't start so she was at a public transit stop. It was too cold to sit so she was crouched down on her heels, coat pulled down over her knees and up around her head as best she could. Putting lip gloss up her nose to try to stop the pain. And she just started bawling and decided she couldn't deal with it anymore. That mental image just cracks me up - people must've thought she was insane.

The two coldest moments of my life both occurred while waiting for transit. Once in Toronto, under-dressed for a windy, -10 degree night, I was so cold I think I may have had serious hypothermia if the streetcar hadn't finally come. But I was under-dressed, and I remember thinking how unusual it was.

The other, worse, was a -25 degree night in Edmonton, on a desolate downtown street, waiting for a bus to take me home. I was dressed as if for an Arctic excursion, but I still tried to break into the revolving door of a nearby office building just to get out of the wind. This was a particularly unpleasant experience due to how long I was exposed, but the temperature was only a little worse than normal.

Ultimately, the long winters and extreme cold on the prairies are worse IMO, and that's not even counting the dry air: cracked skin, itchy eyes, dry and stinging nasal cavities, etc.

Coastal/Central winters can be the definition of "miserable", but I've actually felt, on the prairies, as if the climate is actively hostile to human life.

[Prometheus]

Personally, I don't think it gets any better than this. But, hey, call me crazy: https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.2876198,-...g9hj64KoWCp7csdRh70QQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[LeftCoaster]

^That's just your BC bubble talking. If you were from the prairies you would know that's actually quite ugly.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Personally, I don't think it gets any better than this. But, hey, call me crazy: https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.2876198,-...g9hj64KoWCp7csdRh70QQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That's a nice view. The only problems I can see are that it's 19 degrees in June and the people in the water are wearing shirts, the beach itself is kind of grim, and that when you turn around in Google Streetview the highrises and the urban fabric are bland and depressing.

Not that Hamilton's tropical or anything, but I can remember, in high school, one bleak winter's day getting off the bus and having to traverse almost 1 km worth of suburban real estate on the mountain through the oppressively windy cold because it's not all that common. Spoken as a Canadian, of course, not a Brazilian or anyone fancy like that. On the other hand, the 1 km walk along Portage Ave in Winnipeg from near the Burger King to the U. of Winnipeg was pretty brutal, and I would need to stop in at one or two shops along the way to let my skin thaw.

Edit: Holy —, The Sound Exchange is still there at Portage and Young! I actually financed my living expenses for the last few months of my university education back in 1991 by selling off my vinyl records (weep) five or ten at a time. And I was lucky I didn't wait any longer, as later on I was told that within the next year these shops started paying peanuts for used records due to the CD onslaught. It was just as well, though, as I had nowhere to store them and was moving away from the city and the country.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

That's a nice view. The only problems I can see are that it's 19 degrees in June and the people in the water are wearing shirts, the beach itself is kind of grim, and that when you turn around in Google Streetview the highrises and the urban fabric are bland and depressing.

.

Good eye there! No visible girls in bikinis on the beach so it can't be that warm.

It is a nice place. I've been there a few times.

But heaven on earth, if such a place truly exists, isn't found within the borders of Canada. No matter what some of us might think.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But heaven on earth, if such a place truly exists, isn't found within the borders of Canada.

Doesn't exist anywhere else, either. I think there are loads of places where people feel content enough that the relentless drudgery of life doesn't weigh them down, never mind not getting shot at in a civil war or the like, but the idea of bliss due to geographical location only lasts a few days or hours during a vacation. Everywhere can be intolerable.

It's also personal temperament, of course. I really liked Zipolite, but the constant refrain of "Ja, zis place iss kewl, mahn," from filthy naked German hippies got old after a few days, and I had to escape back to the urban confines of the centre of Oaxaca just to get my bearings. I never would have been a hippy, even though I love Jimi Hendrix.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Doesn't exist anywhere else, either. I think there are loads of places where people feel content enough that the relentless drudgery of life doesn't weigh them down, never mind not getting shot at in a civil war or the like, but the idea of bliss due to geographical location only lasts a few days or hours during a vacation. Everywhere can be intolerable.

It's also personal temperament, of course. I really liked Zipolite, but the constant refrain of "Ja, zis place iss kewl, mahn," from filthy naked German hippies got old after a few days, and I had to escape back to the urban confines of the centre of Oaxaca just to get my bearings. I never would have been a hippy, even though I love Jimi Hendrix.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Coastal/Central winters can be the definition of "miserable", but I've actually felt, on the prairies, as if the climate is actively hostile to human life.

I felt this when I went to Alberta (near-ish Edmonton) for a week around New Year's 2013-2014. Simply going outside for 15 minutes made my skin crack, eyes burn, and I felt like my lungs were freezing from the inside. My boyfriend at the time made me take a walk for almost half an hour... I honestly felt like I was going to die. (He got quite a mouthful from me later!)

I've never felt cold like that. A stubborn harsh dry cold like that was horrible.

I suppose if you grow up with it you're used to it, but for someone like me who spent his whole life in Southern Ontario it was beyond harsh.

[isaidso]

Halifax, Ottawa, and Calgary. Haven't been to the west coast, but Victoria would likely join that list.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by rousseau

That's a nice view. The only problems I can see are that it's 19 degrees in June and the people in the water are wearing shirts, the beach itself is kind of grim, and that when you turn around in Google Streetview the highrises and the urban fabric are bland and depressing IMO.

Not that Hamilton's tropical or anything, but I can remember, in high school, one bleak winter's day getting off the bus and having to traverse almost 1 km worth of suburban real estate on the mountain through the oppressively windy cold because it's not all that common. Spoken as a Canadian, of course, not a Brazilian or anyone fancy like that. On the other hand, the 1 km walk along Portage Ave in Winnipeg from near the Burger King to the U. of Winnipeg was pretty brutal, and I would need to stop in at one or two shops along the way to let my skin thaw.

Edit: Holy —, The Sound Exchange is still there at Portage and Young! I actually financed my living expenses for the last few months of my university education back in 1991 by selling off my vinyl records (weep) five or ten at a time. And I was lucky I didn't wait any longer, as later on I was told that within the next year these shops started paying peanuts for used records due to the CD onslaught. It was just as well, though, as I had nowhere to store them and was moving away from the city and the country.

It seems that Bcasey25raptor isn't the only member who forgets to add this important annotation.

19 degrees near a beach in June isn't odd in many temperate places. Even in San Diego and many other Californian locations beach temperatures hover around the high teens to low 20s.

During sunny days in Vancouver during the late spring / summer it is often several degrees warmer away from the ocean beachfront.

In fact, even in Ontario many late spring / early summer forecasts state "high 25, except 18 near Lake...." and I am willing to bet on those days, especially if they have have full blue sunny skies, the beaches are very busy

Also love calling the West End bland and depressing. It is probably one of the most livable urban communities in Canada.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

In fact, even in Ontario many late spring / early summer forecasts state "high 25, except 18 near Lake...." and I am willing to bet on those days, especially if they have have full blue sunny skies, the beaches are very busy

Also love calling the West End bland and depressing. It is probably one of the most livable urban communities in Canada.

The difference is that we also have July, August and September.

I'm sure it's livable like lots of places, and I'm sure it's awesome for people who love the natural amenities that Vancouver's surroundings is known for (hiking, mountain biking, etc.) But it still looks and feels bland and depressing. It's not attractive visually at all, at least from the perspective of someone who likes cities.

I've been there (once). I also know how to use Google Street View. We're not talking about intangible things that you can't actually look at. Though yeah, realistically, for most people urban good looks isn't really a factor when thinking about "best quality of life." I recall once asking a kid from here who got into professional mountain biking in BC how he liked Vancouver, and he said it was "awesome." When I asked him how he liked the city itself, he shrugged and said "who gives a —? The mountains are awesome."

I'm aware that quibbling over the lack of certain urban amenities can make you look like a sourpuss. Which is my online persona, most of the time. Thankfully I'm self-aware enough to never have had an SSP-like conversation in real life!

[rousseau]

To answer the question in the OP:

1. Toronto: It feels massive and inexhaustible. It never fails to surprise you, which is a hallmark of great cities. Transit and/or biking will get you everywhere worth going. It's never quite quaint enough, it doesn't have any impressive Victorian mightiness due its smaller size 150 years ago, it often looks ramshackle, and people can be too reserved in the stereotypical Canadian manner, but if you want a Canadian metropolis, this is it. If you don't, or if you don't think Toronto does the country justice as its metropolis, well, sorry, that's all we got.

2. Montreal: All the stereotypes. Joie de vivre, je ne sais quoi, à la recherche du temps perdu...I lost a lot of time trying to figure out that last one. Time that I'll never get back. I love Montreal, and am totally sympathetic to the ingrained animus toward or utter disregard of Toronto that some anglophones and francophones have. It's easy to forget anything west of Montreal matters, and it's easy to orient yourself in the direction of New York, Europe and Latin America for inspiration and vacations. Search kool maudit's posts with "Montreal" as the search term for some good insight into why Montreal is so special and compelling.

Though I do wish they'd clean the ice off the sidewalks in the winter.

3. Guelph: Laid back, kinda funky, great stone architecture, a university, and not too far from Toronto.

4. Kitchener-Waterloo: Nothing to look at. It's mostly either dreary or downright ugly, but there's an unmistakable energy and vibe in the air from all the IT stuff. And it's not too far from Toronto either.

5. Victoria: I could list a dozen reasons why I don't like the place, but I recognize that that has more to do with my own personal biases than anything approaching a realistic assessment. I did enjoy my one visit there to see friends. It's probably sizeable enough for lots of people, and it really doesn't get as cold as the rest of the country in the winter, which might trump the lack of heat in the summer (not for me, but maybe for lots of people). I'm quite certain that it would have to rank fairly high on anyone's list of the most appealing larger cities in Canada.