YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Man, you have way too much time!

I noticed Qantas flying a 747 also to SCL (Santiago). I wonder if the plane type is fitting for that market either? It is their only South American connection, so perhaps it serves a purpose, although LAN (also part of One World) does fly (I believe) a 787 to Sydney. Not sure if all those routes are daily.

Those are some long routes over ocean.

You know it... Avgeek City here on a lazy Sunday morning it was... Multi tasking

LAN is daily but via AKL
Qantas is 4-5 weekly nonstop.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

You know it... Avgeek City here on a lazy Sunday morning it was... Multi tasking

LAN is daily but via AKL
Qantas is 4-5 weekly nonstop.

Hope Lan flies to YVR one day, even if it's just one route to Lima.

[Johnny Aussie]

Saw this on Twitter last night... thanks to airlineroute.net.

The CEO of ANA also hinted this during an interview in relation to the R2D2 Star Wars plane.

NH will replace the 787-8 with the 787-9 on the daily YVR-HND flight next summer.

This move also introduces premium economy on this route.

There will be slightly fewer seats per flight, but more premium seating based on the 787-8 configuration they are using now.

[Johnny Aussie]

http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12...nded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/

Current agreement: 3,000 seats each way per week for each country.
Phase I expansion: an additional 3,000 seats each way each (with immediate effect)
Phase II expansion: another 3,000 seats each way each (effective December 2016).

This is a huge expansion from 3,000 seats per week to 9,000 pw for both countries.

And this capacity is still just for SYD, MEL, BNE and PER. The capacity restriction has been lifted from all other Australian points of entry.

With the AC 777-200LR being fitted out to 300 seats and the new YVR-BNE thrice weekly service being on the 787-8 this maxes out the capacity with the current cap at 3,000 seats for Canada. So now with the capacity doubling immediately, perhaps we will see YVR-BNE increased or maybe even see a launch of YVR-MEL. Under the current cap neither of these options would have been possible.

Also wait and see what the Aussie side does. Although I'm pretty sure they would still be waiting for their new 787-9s to come online.

In any event this is pretty exciting for both my homes.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12...nded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/

Current agreement: 3,000 seats each way per week for each country.
Phase I expansion: an additional 3,000 seats each way each (with immediate effect)
Phase II expansion: another 3,000 seats each way each (effective December 2016).

This is a huge expansion from 3,000 seats per week to 9,000 pw for both countries.

And this capacity is still just for SYD, MEL, BNE and PER. The capacity restriction has been lifted from all other Australian points of entry.

With the AC 777-200LR being fitted out to 300 seats and the new YVR-BNE thrice weekly service being on the 787-8 this maxes out the capacity with the current cap at 3,000 seats for Canada. So now with the capacity doubling immediately, perhaps we will see YVR-BNE increased or maybe even see a launch of YVR-MEL. Under the current cap neither of these options would have been possible.

Also wait and see what the Aussie side does. Although I'm pretty sure they would still be waiting for their new 787-9s to come online.

In any event this is pretty exciting for both my homes.

Nice.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12...nded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/

Current agreement: 3,000 seats each way per week for each country.
Phase I expansion: an additional 3,000 seats each way each (with immediate effect)
Phase II expansion: another 3,000 seats each way each (effective December 2016).

This is a huge expansion from 3,000 seats per week to 9,000 pw for both countries.

And this capacity is still just for SYD, MEL, BNE and PER. The capacity restriction has been lifted from all other Australian points of entry. .........
...............
Also wait and see what the Aussie side does. Although I'm pretty sure they would still be waiting for their new 787-9s to come online.

In any event this is pretty exciting for both my homes.

I'm thrilled to bits.

[Henbo]

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/can...port-agreement-with-china-562627591.html

The expanded agreement increases the number of cities Canadian and Chinese airlines can serve from 12 to 18 in the other partner’s territory.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Henbo

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/can...port-agreement-with-china-562627591.html

The expanded agreement increases the number of cities Canadian and Chinese airlines can serve from 12 to 18 in the other partner’s territory.

Chinese carriers now serve 3 (will become 4) Canadian cities; Air Canada now serves 2 cities in China.

Any idea what will the 13th-18th cities for each country be?
Maybe one day we will see direct flight between Beijing and Nanaimo or Abbotsford

[Cage]

Originally Posted by nname

Chinese carriers now serve 3 (will become 4) Canadian cities; Air Canada now serves 2 cities in China.

Any idea what will the 13th-18th cities for each country be?
Maybe one day we will see direct flight between Beijing and Nanaimo or Abbotsford

Think of the new cities in terms of code share flights rather than new direct service between cities.



The Canada-China bilateral expansion will allow for greater connections in PEK, YVR, and YYZ through the new AC-CA partnership. YCD-YVR-PEK is now a possibility if YCD becomes one of the 13-18 cities designated.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12...nded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/

Current agreement: 3,000 seats each way per week for each country.
Phase I expansion: an additional 3,000 seats each way each (with immediate effect)
Phase II expansion: another 3,000 seats each way each (effective December 2016).

This is a huge expansion from 3,000 seats per week to 9,000 pw for both countries.

And this capacity is still just for SYD, MEL, BNE and PER. The capacity restriction has been lifted from all other Australian points of entry.

With the AC 777-200LR being fitted out to 300 seats and the new YVR-BNE thrice weekly service being on the 787-8 this maxes out the capacity with the current cap at 3,000 seats for Canada. So now with the capacity doubling immediately, perhaps we will see YVR-BNE increased or maybe even see a launch of YVR-MEL. Under the current cap neither of these options would have been possible.

Also wait and see what the Aussie side does. Although I'm pretty sure they would still be waiting for their new 787-9s to come online.

In any event this is pretty exciting for both my homes.

This is great. I wonder if any of this capacity would go to YYZ or if this is just a big boon to YVR. YYZ can reach BNE, but at 15,000 KM it would be one of the longer flights out there and near the edge of the 77Ls operating range.

Here's a possible configuration of the seats if flights all go through YVR.

AC YVR-SYD - 787-900 - 7 Per week - 2,100
AC YVR-BNE - 787-800 - 7 Per week - 1,757
AC YVR-MEL - 787-800 - 7 Per week - 1,757

QF YVR-SYD - 787-900 - 7 Per week - 2,100
QF YVR-BNE - 787-800 - 5 Per week - 1,250

Total of 8,950 seats per week. No clue how the market would be able to support this many seats, but it's an idea of what kind of capacity this could mean. I assumed QF would have the same seats/plane as AC currently uses, since there is no info on how they will fit out their dreamliners when they arrive.

[LeftCoaster]

Nevermind, just re-read your post, that's a total of 9,000 seats per week EACH!

That's 18,000 seats per week total. Wow.

I'm not even going to bother looking at possible ways to fill that. If both AC and QF ran daily flights from all 4 airports using a 787-900 (2 flights per day to YVR from SYD, MEL, BNE and PER) that wouldn't even fill the capacity.

Might as well just remove the capacity restrictions altogether. Makes me thing YYZ might be in play after all, which isn't great news for YVR.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12...nded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/

Current agreement: 3,000 seats each way per week for each country.
Phase I expansion: an additional 3,000 seats each way each (with immediate effect)
Phase II expansion: another 3,000 seats each way each (effective December 2016).

This is a huge expansion from 3,000 seats per week to 9,000 pw for both countries.

And this capacity is still just for SYD, MEL, BNE and PER. The capacity restriction has been lifted from all other Australian points of entry.

With the AC 777-200LR being fitted out to 300 seats and the new YVR-BNE thrice weekly service being on the 787-8 this maxes out the capacity with the current cap at 3,000 seats for Canada. So now with the capacity doubling immediately, perhaps we will see YVR-BNE increased or maybe even see a launch of YVR-MEL. Under the current cap neither of these options would have been possible.

Also wait and see what the Aussie side does. Although I'm pretty sure they would still be waiting for their new 787-9s to come online.

In any event this is pretty exciting for both my homes.

This is excellent news! Thank you for sharing. I'm very excited to see improved connectivity between the two countries, particularly with the Canadian dollar making travel to the USD and Euro zones increasingly cost prohibitive.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Nevermind, just re-read your post, that's a total of 9,000 seats per week EACH!

That's 18,000 seats per week total. Wow.

I'm not even going to bother looking at possible ways to fill that. If both AC and QF ran daily flights from all 4 airports using a 787-900 (2 flights per day to YVR from SYD, MEL, BNE and PER) that wouldn't even fill the capacity.

Might as well just remove the capacity restrictions altogether. Makes me thing YYZ might be in play after all, which isn't great news for YVR.

Do the the 789s have the range to do YYZ - Australia?

[Gordon]

Sydney & Melbourne are too far for any Non Stop flights between 9663 NM & 10,097 NM

[MalcolmTucker]

777 has the legs..
This mapper:
(shading is ETOPS 180)
Source: Great circle mapper
Distance Time

SYD 8397 nm 17:08
MEL 8774 nm 17:54
BNE 8101 nm 16:32
PER 9788 nm 19:59

[LeftCoaster]

Anyone know what the 77L's range actually is? Wikipedia says 15,800KM but Air Canada's page says 17,446KM. That's not a small discrepancy.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Do the the 789s have the range to do YYZ - Australia?

No, it would have to be the 77L. 789 tops out at about 14,000KM.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Anyone know what the 77L's range actually is? Wikipedia says 15,800KM but Air Canada's page says 17,446KM. That's not a small discrepancy.

Haha. I also went looking for the range of the 77L and 773ER and such following MalcolmTucker's post. The discrepancy is not terribly surprising considering the different airlines' in-flight product for seat weight and configuration, IFE, etc., plus whether there are any physical alterations to the aircraft, such as a "hot & high" up-rated engine thrust package or increased MTOW ancillary fuel tanks. I would also expect that an airline views the precise legs of their fleet to be quasi-proprietary information.

[casper]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Haha. I also went looking for the range of the 77L and 773ER and such following MalcolmTucker's post. The discrepancy is not terribly surprising considering the different airlines' in-flight product for seat weight and configuration, IFE, etc., plus whether there are any physical alterations to the aircraft, such as a "hot & high" up-rated engine thrust package or increased MTOW ancillary fuel tanks. I would also expect that an airline views the precise legs of their fleet to be quasi-proprietary information.

Several Years ago AC wanted to do YYZ-LAX-SYD. The story around town was that the Australians would not permit the LAX stop-over.

At the time the only stop overs permitted were in San Francisco or Hawaii. That was then, today there are lots of competition between California and Australia. I don't think there is a market to protect there anymore.

Years ago, AC use to run a 767 to Australia with a stop in Hawaii. WestJet could try the same move today.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

777 has the legs..
This mapper:
(shading is ETOPS 180)
Source: Great circle mapper
Distance Time

SYD 8397 nm 17:08
MEL 8774 nm 17:54
BNE 8101 nm 16:32
PER 9788 nm 19:59

If AC invested in a fleet of 77Ls for YYZ-AUS/+4, how much would that diminish YVR numbers pax/flights, or is this not a potential threat to YVR? Right now YVR is Canada's only gateway to all of the Pacific. This would change all that, would it not, even if the YYZ routes are all 77L metal. If YVR traffic goes down, by how much, if anyone can inform me.
The Wikipedia and Air Canada 77L range stats would play enormously here, would they not? Thank you.

[Cage]

YYZ-Australia is not commercially viable as a nonstop service. There are too many one stop options to make it work from an economic perspective. Keep in mind the cost of transporting fuel on ULH runs make them less competitive than doing to Longhaul runs.

Any Canada-Australia service will have a western North America departure port.

Under the Yyz-LAX-SYD option, UA would have withdrawn their service and code share joint venture with AC. at the time UA was flying 744s on the run that cannot compete cost and profit wise with the 77W. I also believe the lax stop used the USA traffic rights and this was a method to get around existing bilateral. Now UA has their own 77W on order for delivery in 2016.