The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[MalcolmTucker]

With many if not most trips travelling through a capacity constrained bit downtown, if makes little economic sense to put in zone fairs besides for 'trips that do not go downtown and do not deny a seat that could carry someone that will be going downtown'.

[Acajack]

Yeah, one of the problems in Ottawa is that in its determination to serve the suburbs it runs a lot of near-empty local buses in low-density areas every single day. Even if the frequencies are only once an hour it's still a huge resource drain as there are so many routes serving so many subdivisions.

Simply offering "minimum" service there still affects its capacity to increase its routes in the central city, which are often more infrequent than one might expect for an inner urban area, and also frequently very overcrowded.

[Acajack]

On the other hand, Ottawa's express routes from the suburbs into town are extremely well-used. But it's almost like two different systems. Many express riders have never ridden a local route in their neighbourhood in their entire lives.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I'm sure engineers could create viable protections; however, the fact that almost the entire tunnel lies below the river level seems to make more of it vulnerable to flooding. There would likely have to be at least one ventilation shaft somewhere in the vicinity of the river as well, and there are several stations in the flood zone. None of that is hugely problematic in my view, but I don't see how it is *less* vulnerable than the other options.



I don't really know Calgary all that well. Would it be possible to simply make the part of the line that runs at grade transit-exclusive with no level crossings? It doesn't seem like that part of 2nd St is a major arterial and none of the cross-streets seem particularly important, but I may be mistaken. If that's not feasible, why couldn't they simply move the portal further north closer to the river?

Avoiding deep tunnelling is likely significantly cheaper due to cheaper underground station construction and it makes transit quite a bit more accessible as well.

Yeah, but if Vancouver can have a subway under False Creek, I am sure Calgary can build a subway under the Bow River. The only real challenge is the immense height of the Bluffs which require a 17 storey (50 meters) deep station. I would rather that station just be removed and we get the right system built with no above ground stations in the core.

It would be possible to make the above ground section in Eau Claire transit exclusive, except that they would most certainly have a pedestrian crossing on the tracks at any grade-level station if put there. They may not allow cars over the tracks, but there would definitely be a pedestrian crossing on the tracks, which is what needs to not happen. Hence my enamorment with the 100% subway through the core option.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The really cool thing about upcoming transit expansion is that London will be the smallest city in NA to have a subway station.......................that's right Canada will have it's own London Underground.

I had no idea London will have an underground station! Very cool

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

\The funny thing about it all is that Ottawa has three clearly delimited satellite cities, which make it clear where potential zone boundaries could be.

I believe you meant to say 'which make it clear where potential zone boundaries should be.'

And Im 100% with you. No reason for the 95 to travel from Trim to Barhaven Centre for a regular fare. Im sure after two round trips the bus has to refuel.

[franktko]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

We are so, so far behind.

We're only just now putting a bus out to the suburbs for the first time. A ground-breaking pilot project! Public transit to a suburb within our uninterrupted urban area. What will we think of next.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/paradise-metrobus-dan-bobbett-1.3369263

All jokes aside its a good thing. But holy fuck so, so late.

I guess St. John's has the luxury of efficient car commuting... right?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yep, Ottawa's main single fare zone extends all the way out to the suburban fringes like Stittsville, Barrhaven, Orleans, Kanata, etc. As long as you're in that zone a regular (non-express) ride from one end of the zone to the other costs the exact same fare as a ride that's a few blocks across downtown.

The furthest point is in southwest Stittsville which is about 40 km from Parliament Hill. From there you can ride to downtown, and all the way to the eastern fringes of Orleans (another 30 km or more) on a single basic fare.

Ottawa/OC Transpo have pretty much always automatically extended its urban transit area (covered by the basic fare, with all-day local routes in all neighbourhoods that feed into major cross-Ottawa routes going downtown) as the suburban footprint has expanded.

So basically as soon as a new subdivision is built (generally townhomes or singles on 35 to 50 foot lots), transit service on the city-wide system goes in.

It consists of that basic all-day basic fare system I described above, plus AM-to-downtown and PM-to-the-burbs transfer-free express services. For these guys you do have to pay a premium though.

You have to get pretty far out and into low-density (think one-acre lots) and rural areas for the rural service fares to kick in.

Rural service fares are the same as the express fares: $5.

$5 on OC Transpo can get you from rural Vars to suburban Stittsville (route #232 -> Route #96), a distance of about 65 kilometres. I believe that's the farthest possible trip you can take on OC Transpo.

OC Transpo really should implement fare by zone.

Trips within a beyond-Greenbelt suburb, and trips within the city core, could be charged the current rate, and any trip crossing the Greenbelt could be charged the existing express rate.

The extra revenue could be used to improve the sorry state of suburban bus services. Many of the newer suburban areas in Ottawa have very minimal bus service. One subdivision built almost four years ago now has over a thousand people and no bus service, not even a single peak period trip. Many others have peak period service only, or no evening service. For example, the entire southernmost part of Orleans, with nearly 15,000 people, has not a single bus trip available after 7pm.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by franktko

I guess St. John's has the luxury of efficient car commuting... right?

You mean like... car pooling?

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Trips within a beyond-Greenbelt suburb, and trips within the city core, could be charged the current rate, and any trip crossing the Greenbelt could be charged the existing express rate.

What do Bells Corners and Blackburn Hamlet? Also I can only imagine the stink you'd get from western Orleans about the fact that they're about the same distance from downtown as the Bayshore area.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Beedok

What do Bells Corners and Blackburn Hamlet? Also I can only imagine the stink you'd get from western Orleans about the fact that they're about the same distance from downtown as the Bayshore area.

I'd vote for classifying Bells Corners and Blackburn Hamlet as "intermediate zones" where you could choose to go either direction at the Zone 1 fare. York Region Transit in Toronto does the same sort of thing I believe, near the zone boundaries there's an "overlap zone" where one can travel to either zone without paying a topup.

As for Orleans being closer to downtown than Kanata... it's not a very well known thing.

This whole thing would be politically palatable only if meaningful improvements to suburban transit were introduced anyway.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Yeah, but if Vancouver can have a subway under False Creek, I am sure Calgary can build a subway under the Bow River.

Montreal has metro lines under both the St. Lawrence river and the Rivière des Prairies (the river on the northwestern side of Montreal's island) so for sure the Bow River isn't an insurmountable obstacle.

[lrt's friend]

Yes, part of the cost issue is the mostly empty buses in the suburbs, but it also costs more to move people downtown from these locations, when compared with those living inside the Greenbelt. People travelling longer distances should expect to pay more. It should not be the people travelling 1 km in centre town subsidizing those travelling 40km from Stittsville.

Of course, any implementation of zone fares would have to come with the carrot of better service.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

OC Transpo really should implement fare by zone.

Trips within a beyond-Greenbelt suburb, and trips within the city core, could be charged the current rate, and any trip crossing the Greenbelt could be charged the existing express rate.

Absolutely this.

[Ontario1]

Charles Street at Benton Street in Kitchener - by me.

[Ontario1]

At the Queen Street Station on Charles Street today. - By me.

[ssiguy]

Ya, London will have an "Underground".

The northern leg of the LRT will go right down Richmond into the core. In order to avoid the hellish traffic at Richmond & Oxford and the railway that crosses Richmond just south of Oxford, they are going to tunnel.

The tunnel will start about a block north of Oxford with an underground station at Ox/Rich and will continue underground all the way to Central. The line will then split with the southbound trains remerge on Richmond towards Dundas. The northbound trains don't go to Rich/Dundas but rather come from Clarence/Dundas and there will merge into the tunnel at roughly Victoria Park. The north/southbound trains meet at the CitiPlaza {under the overhead of the Galleria} where they will also meet the Wellington/Oxford West BRT line.

It also fits in well with the city's plan to get rid of all buses on Dundas as they want to make it a pedestrian only zone between at least Richmond and Wellington. The northbound Clarence line and South/Eastbound Richmond line will result in a huge amount of pedestrian traffic between Dundas and Richmond which is what the city wants.

[Beedok]

Wish some of Hamilton's streetcar plan would be under ground (or grade separated in some way).

[franktko]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

You mean like... car pooling?

No I meant like, if you can drive all the time efficently, without major traffic, etc... this would have the effect of not having an extensive public transport. But I don't know the driving situation over there.

[caltrane74]

Those streets in Kitchener are sure to be redeveloped with the LRT rolling down.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by drum118

Depending on a few things, we could see 4414 & 4415 on the road by year end. 4415 is on its way down now and 4414 could hit the streets by Dec 24.

We most likely will see 4416 next month with 4417 in Feb. 4402 should show up in this time frame as well.

Depending on delivery and weather, 510 could become 100% new cars only with the next board change, but I prefer to wait tell the next one to have 3-4 cars for 509. We still need spares as well training cars.

By June, 511 should finally start to see the new cars.

Until the problem is dealt with the Mexico Plant, TB is not going to have enough sections to work on to produce a car every 5 days as promises.

Most of Spadina with new streetcars soon... even with the long delay, things are beginning to look up.