Rural Commuter Rail

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I think it was determined a while back that the CN line has poor TOD potential as it does not run parallel to any main streets, and much of its route is through established (and low density) neighbourhoods that are more resistant to redevelopment. Baseline won out as a transit corridor for its more obvious potential, as BRT in the mid term but may eventually evolve to rail in the far future. You can't really plan effectively beyond a 25 to 30 year span, as demographics, technology and other factors will change, and there's already enough in the TMP's "ultimate network" for Ottawa to commit its efforts and money toward for at least a few decades.

While the CN corridor might not run parallel to any major streets it does cross many major streets.This claim about TOD development as a necessity for transit seems to be conveniently ignored when the city wishes. There is no TOD anywhere between Dominion and Cleary and there never will be since the LRT is under the parkway and by the river. We missed our opportunity to routing it along Richmond or Carling. The sectiion from Lincoln Fields to Bayshore is beside the Queensway so there is very little opportunity for TOD. In the east end, the LRT is in the median of Hwy 174 so it will be very inconvenient for people to access TOD.
There are several spots along the CN right of way that could have TOD development such as Kanata Station Rd, Woodroffe, Merivale, Confederation and Via Station / Trainyards.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

I guess that means it would also pay for an extra rail - road project a year too.
Never hurts to imagine the possibilities.

Anything is possible, but I doubt it. Rail projects are an order of magnitude bigger in terms of expense and both the federal government and municipalities would be looking at short term announceables.

As an example, a 10km extension of GO service in Hamilton on an existing line is estimated at $150 million. http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5330290-go-train-extension-to-stoney-creek-will-cost-150-million/

And that's just a small extension of an existing service; the rail projects we're talking about on this thread are both much longer in terms of distance and greenfield, so there needs to be new rolling stock, a new terminal station, new maintenance facilities, etc.

[Richard Eade]

$150M for 10 kilometres sounds like a lot, but that is ¼ of the cost of building a light rail line. (From the referenced 'TheSpec' article, the 14 km LRT line is about $60M per kilometre.)

Even existing rail lines need a lot of work to create usable transit lines. There is the obvious cost of adding station platforms, but there is also the cost of connecting those platforms to useful locations in an accessible way. Remember, most old freight lines were not integrated into communities, and, indeed, were usually isolated from them.

Then there are the tracks and rail bed; often these need to be reconditioned and upgraded. In the case of Ottawa, the O-Train first tried to run on the old, jointed, tracks, but it was not long before the tracks were continuously welded. It turned out that the joints were too hard on the wheels of the Talents.

Ottawa also has a fetish about grade separating any transit-related rail lines (although VIA crossings at grade seem to be tolerated). For the CNR line, that would mean elevating Corkstown (or breaking it) and the TransCanada Trail just to get to Kanata. Once there, I would suggest that the train should go to at least March, where passengers could transfer onto buses. In order to get that far, there are more road-crossings to deal with. These include other trails (which could be rerouted to Carling), Bayfield (which could be broken), Hertzberg, Teron, and a laneway( which could be removed). One way to handling the roads (Hertzberg and Teron) is to elevate the tracks on a structure or berm; but that is not inexpensive.

Even if Ottawa ran the cheapest possible ‘pilot’ project with the three Talents (assuming the City pays to repair the third train and has no ‘hot-spare’) at 15 minute frequency, on, say, a line from the proposed MSF at Woodroffe to March Road, it is likely that there would need to be two passing sidings added in that 13.5 kilometre route. This adds considerably to the cost of the control and signaling that needs to be added.

If we use the Hamilton example as a guide, a run from Woodroffe to March would be in the neighbourhood of $200M, if built fully, and, I’d guess, about ⅔ that cost as a cheaper ‘pilot’ project, deferring some costs to the future.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

While the CN corridor might not run parallel to any major streets it does cross many major streets.This claim about TOD development as a necessity for transit seems to be conveniently ignored when the city wishes. There is no TOD anywhere between Dominion and Cleary and there never will be since the LRT is under the parkway and by the river. We missed our opportunity to routing it along Richmond or Carling. The sectiion from Lincoln Fields to Bayshore is beside the Queensway so there is very little opportunity for TOD. In the east end, the LRT is in the median of Hwy 174 so it will be very inconvenient for people to access TOD.
There are several spots along the CN right of way that could have TOD development such as Kanata Station Rd, Woodroffe, Merivale, Confederation and Via Station / Trainyards.

TOD potential is determined at the station locations not the ROW. There certainly is TOD opportunities in the vicinity of Dominion and Cleary, as demonstrated by the UpperWest and Azure developments. There are plenty more large plots available that are already zoned appropriately nearby each of the proposed stations along the western extension.

You can't assume TOD on land that would need reassembly or drastic rezoning against the will of residents. Homeowners in Craig Henry or Leslie Park would not agree if large swaths of their neighbourhoods would be bulldozed for high density buildings.

TOD is not solely focused on transit, it also stresses walkable communities and ultimately has to be tied to a main street or area with pedestrian appeal. You'd be hard pressed to find that along the CN corridor.

I say reserve the corridor for the far future, put any money available in extending Confederation Line all the way to Kanata and Barrhaven which are not even in the 2031 plan.

[ACmodels]

Moose Consortium Project becomes official with agreement signing

Oct 07, 2015
OttawaCommunityNews.com
By Stacey Roy


On Oct. 2 eight stakeholder companies formally signed the Moose Consortium Project 125 agreement to launch a private sector commuter train project in the Ottawa region. From Left to Right Back Row: Joseph Potvin, The Opman Company; Dr. Bill Pomfret, Dr Bill Pomfret & Assoc.; Simon Lachance, Account Executive, Aon Risk Solutions (Construction Services Group); Wojciech Remisz, REMISZ Consulting Engineers; Peter Gabany, Limelight Advertising & Design. Front Row: Ian Garland, Wilson-Young and Associ

With a formal change of name and a signed agreement with the eight stakeholder companies involved, the Moose Consortium Project is moving forward towards its 2017 launch date.

The Moose Consortium Project 125 Agreement was signed on Friday, Oct. 2 and marks a historic business milestone in their ambitious plan to develop and operate a 400 km private-sector interprovincial passenger railway throughout the Greater National Capital Region in time for Canada’s Sesquicentennial in 2017.

“This might be the most significant and sustainable infrastructure project being attempted anywhere in the country for Canada’s 150th Anniversary,” said the Consortium’s Coordinator, Joseph Potvin of The Opman Company.

The Consortium is pursuing a 100 per cent commercially financed and operated passenger railway service on existing railways. Double-decker trains will traverse Ottawa and Gatineau, and will operate all the way out to six semi-rural towns of the Greater National Capital Region including Smiths Falls, Arnprior and Alexandria in Ontario, and in Québec, service will go to Montebello, later to La Pêche (Wakefield) once the Consortium completes track repairs, and to Bristol after rebuilding that line.
he eight companies forming the Moose Consortium include: REMISZ Consulting Engineers, Business Model Fulcrum, Dr. Bill Pomfret & Assoc., The Opman Company, Limelight Advertising & Design, Sandelmen Software Works, Wilson Young & Associates and MTBA Associates Inc. Architects.

Insurance confirmed

he inaugural meeting held in Gatineau Oct. 2 included discussions with two executives of Aon Reed Stenhouse, Canada's largest insurance brokerage and risk management firm, which is now the Moose Consortium's broker of record for all risk management needs.

The relationship with Aon is a major step towards completing the last of three requirements that the Canadian Transportation Agency has identified towards the Consortium's application for a certificate of fitness. The business group plans to submit a single application encompassing the full 400 km extent of this commercial interprovincial passenger rail service.

“As part of the Moose Consortium, this summer we completed initial plans and drawings detailing an estimated $41M rehabilitation of the interprovincial Prince of Wales Bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau,” said Wojciech Remisz, President of REMISZ Consulting Engineers. “In addition to train service, our design adds dedicated cycling and pedestrian trails on the west and east sides of the bridge," he said.

Infrastructure upgrades such as this will be commercially financed, without dependence on taxpayer funds. Both infrastructure and operations are premised upon a dependable and sustainable revenue base that doesn't require taxpayer subsidies.

This is the first proof-of-concept project of the “Property-Powered Rail (PPR) Open Market Development Model” developed by Potvin from The Opman Company of Chelsea in collaboration with several of the other firms, and peer-reviewed with international experts.

This past June, Potvin was invited by the US-based SMART Institute (Sustainable Mobility & Accessibility Research & Transformation) to bring the PPR into discussions at a strategy workshop in Philadelphia where officials from Amtrak and other companies were considering how to develop new mass transit systems throughout the US.

And in July, Michael Lachapelle of Business Model Fulcrum, another Moose Consortium member firm, presented the PPR model in London England at the first International Conference on Transportation and Public Health. Following his session, Dr. Luise Noring, Program Director of the Copenhagen School of Business began developing plans for a multi-institute research study to compare the Moose Consortium's commercial metropolitan railway concept for the Ottawa-Outaouais region, with the publicly funded metropolitan railway being planned for the cross-border region around Copenhagen, Denmark and Malmö, Sweden.

Noring said she saw the global relevance of the approach taken by the Moose Consortium, suggesting "it will be possible to transfer experience of the Ottawa-Outaouais infrastructure investment to North America and the world."

The eight participating firms are wrapping up their quarter-million dollar Phase 1(a) of a five-phase planning and development project. “We've assembled our 'Class D' financial estimates of aggregate revenues and costs relating to the infrastructure and operations," said Potvin.

By incrementally upgrading existing infrastructure, the Consortium expects to create permanent full-time jobs, and a wide range of business linkage opportunities, with no boom/bust cycle typical of mega-projects.

“The prospect of impacting and growing the Greater Capital Region in such a sustainable way is thrilling," commented Ian Garland, President of Wilson Young & Associates. “Doing so without picking the taxpayers' pocket by using good ol’ entrepreneurship is very exciting.”

Passenger rail services of the Moose Consortium offer a practical way to integrate all public and private transportation services across jurisdictions throughout the Greater National Capital Region (NCR).

“What better way to celebrate Canada's 150th Anniversary than by having a group of entrepreneurs take the initiative to re-create an interprovincial railway throughout our Greater National Capital Region," added Peter Gabany of Limelight. “We're not saying it's easy, but in a certain way we're just re-living some of the same types of challenges as had to be overcome during the time of Canada's Confederation.”

The formal agreement signed on Friday included a corporate restructuring. The original company created in 2011, “Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises Inc.” is being purchased by newly founded “Moose Consortium Inc.”.

http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/news-...becomes-official-with-agreement-signing/

[FFX-ME]

It's crazy how the development of a massive 400km, privately funded, metropolitan transit system isn't being covered by the main news outlets in Ottawa.

[lrt's friend]

It will be amazing if they can pull this off for 2017.

How is this possible when it isn't possible for a mainline rail transit system used by 100,000s of people per day such as the Confederation Line?

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It will be amazing if they can pull this off for 2017.

How is this possible when it isn't possible for a mainline rail transit system used by 100,000s of people per day such as the Confederation Line?

Maybe it'll be a stripped down launch, probably only to the south-west of the city. I mean, Ottawa is already planning to convert the PoW bridge into a pedestrian path so no chance of running trains there right now

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by silvergate

Maybe it'll be a stripped down launch, probably only to the south-west of the city. I mean, Ottawa is already planning to convert the PoW bridge into a pedestrian path so no chance of running trains there right now

Not to mention that the city is already having trouble maintaining an 8 minute frequency on the Trillium Line. I can't see adding a couple of heavy rail commuter lines on it unless it is double- or triple- tracked. Likewise with the bridge across the Gatineau River where Rapibus has to contend with a one-way bottleneck. It's Moose's Achilles Heel since that corridor is the keystone to their big plan, and it will be hard to get buy-in from both cities. Ultimately it will require a lot of public money to accommodate them.

[FFX-ME]

MOOSE, the privately-funded commuter rail project in Ottawa, has updated its website. They are still aiming for a 2017 start.

http://www.letsgomoose.ca/

[Nepean]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

MOOSE, the privately-funded commuter rail project in Ottawa, has updated its website. They are still aiming for a 2017 start.

http://www.letsgomoose.ca/

This looks great! If it works out, then Ottawa could have a functioning LRT, a commuter rail project, and the O-Train line by 2018. We could also have started Phase II of the LRT line. All steps in the right direction.

[zzptichka]

I'm surprised no one is talking about this project. Not a single mention in the media.
Does anyone know what's the condition of the tracks? Some of them haven't been used in a while.

[lrt's friend]

Is this really a serious proposal?

I just find there are so many potential issues.

The tracks up to Wakefield have been unusable for years.

From another thread, the tracks across the Prince of Wales Bridge have been disconnected from the Trillium Line

The Prince of Wales Bridge needs major rehabilitation

How does the Trillium Line handle commuter trains without further interrupting current service?

Will commuter trains be allowed to intermingle with DMUs on the Trillium Line?

Can the VIA rail lines handle additional trains without significant upgrades?

Isn't the rail bridge across the Gatineau River shared by Rapibus? How will this be addressed?

And all of these issues can be addressed by 2017 and who is paying?

[Kitchissippi]

I think the tracks up to Fitzroy were ripped up earlier this year, too.

The Moose model is based on having property owners pay a "train stopping fee" for a chunk of their revenue. Innovative concept, but I doubt they negotiate enough of those to make it feasible right away.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

I'm surprised no one is talking about this project. Not a single mention in the media.

What does this "project" consist of besides a website and a fantasy?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Is this really a serious proposal?

I just find there are so many potential issues.

The tracks up to Wakefield have been unusable for years.

From another thread, the tracks across the Prince of Wales Bridge have been disconnected from the Trillium Line

The Prince of Wales Bridge needs major rehabilitation

How does the Trillium Line handle commuter trains without further interrupting current service?

Will commuter trains be allowed to intermingle with DMUs on the Trillium Line?

Can the VIA rail lines handle additional trains without significant upgrades?

Isn't the rail bridge across the Gatineau River shared by Rapibus? How will this be addressed?

And all of these issues can be addressed by 2017 and who is paying?

No this is just fantasy, for all the reasons you just listed.

There's absolutely no way another train provider can be added to the VIA tracks between Smiths Falls and Ottawa, VIA takes up hundreds of train movements per week.

All the non-VIA tracks they want to use are either degraded badly to the point of being unusable or they don't exist anymore.

This project **could** be reality given 5 years and public funding... but not like this.

[ACmodels]

Waiting for Godot: How Long Will it Take to Create Moose rail®?
by Peter Gabany | May 2, 2016 | News | 0 comments

It might surprise you to know why it seemingly is taking such a long time to launch Moose rail®—a mass transit system serving Canada’s National Capital Region. The answer… no one has tried this for 125 years in Canada.

The good news it that Moose rail is NOT a SuperBuild project. So many believe that any hold up stems from raising multi-billions of dollars prior construction and implementation. Barring a laundry list of track upgrades—namely signalling at level crossings, Moose rail® is near operational. Not being a super build program in itself means that the jobs that are created placing the service into existence will remain for the long term. That is to say, incremental job postings will occur as the system is ramped up making for much needed jobs across the region (NCR). All job types will be required, from track maintenance, operations, and support services, to other roles. Yes that is an oversimplification, but there isn’t any track to lay, (other than track that should never have been removed and several sidings). We must have the repairs completed for the Prince of Wales bridge, the track upgrades must be taken care of for safety and efficiency (no more than three months work), equipment decided on (which trains and passenger cards will we operate), stations or as we like to call them “Linked Localities” designated and a robust scheduling system put to work.

Consortium members started the process of establishing an interprovincial passenger/commuter rail service across the National Capital Region in 2009 and in 2010 formalized an agreement amongst 5 original consortium member/partners to create a vision for this mass transit system utilizing pre-existing rail.

At that time the collective envisioned a passenger/commuter system that would serve the National Capital Region. The Consortium knew that it would need an innovative financial model as governments had little to no appetite for transit funding, building or subsidy but the infrastructure lay in waiting for someone to use it.

We knew that an unprecedented collaborative effort would be required to knit two Provinces, approximately 24 municipal jurisdictions and the Federal government to make this happen. We also knew that this effort had to remain in private sector hands so that all that was accomplished was not overwritten with the change in government. All but a couple of Municipalities have jumped aboard. Some people have said, “impossible”, and frankly, at times it has seemed so. However, one shining light keeps our consortium focused.

Moose rail® would be no where if not for the forward vision of Canada’s founding fathers and the articles of Confederation. Apropos when you consider a country whose Confederation was made possible with the completion of the Transcontinental Railway. As we know, Canada will celebrate its Sesquicentennial next year.

Today, with a robust and innovative financial model in hand, Moose rail® is preparing its application to the Canadian Transportation Agency for a Certificate of Fitness. Sounds simple enough… right? Interestingly, as best as we can determine, no company NOT currently running a railway in Canada has applied for a certificate of fitness in 125 years. Until recently there hasn’t been a precedent for an application.

Moose rail® has experienced positive and engaging cooperation with the staff of the CTA as this process seems to have animated all who champion the growth and repurposing of existing rail. People living in and around the region have voiced their excitement for a system that would allow for an alternative for their daily commute.

This week Moose rail® is preparing an application to the (CTA) Canadian Transportation Agency to operate a Railway, marking one of the most important steps in meeting the overall timeline and launch of Moose rail®. Look for formal announcements of Moose’s formal application for a Certificate of Fitness in the first week of May 2016.

https://www.letsgomoose.ca/waiting-for-godot-how-long-will-it-take-to-create-moose-rail/

[Horus]

... but there isn’t any track to lay, (other than track that should never have been removed and several sidings). We must have the repairs completed for the Prince of Wales bridge, the track upgrades must be taken care of for safety and efficiency (no more than three months work),

https://www.letsgomoose.ca/waiting-for-godot-how-long-will-it-take-to-create-moose-rail/

Are they saying that it would be three months' work to repair the POW bridge and all of the track? Wow. Just, wow.

I'd be much more optimistic about this project if any information was coming from sources other than their own website. This puff piece is really not instilling any confidence that this is anywhere close to happening

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by Horus

Are they saying that it would be three months' work to repair the POW bridge and all of the track? Wow. Just, wow.

I'd be much more optimistic about this project if any information was coming from sources other than their own website. This puff piece is really not instilling any confidence that this is anywhere close to happening

I want this dream to come true!

[FFX-ME]

I also really want this to happen, but from my understanding they want to run the trains on the trillium line...