ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Urbannizer]

Hanover Buckhead Village

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

It's not much of a chicken and egg situation, honestly. People come first every time. No one is going to open a business in an area without enough potential customers and then operate at a loss for years while it becomes more popular, even if the lease was a good deal. You have to either open a big destination like Atlantic Station or wait until the population density is high enough.

There are caps on increases, so landlords can't raise rents much during a lease. Once they sign a low-paying tenant they're stuck with them for awhile, and could lose the chance to attract a higher-value tenant if a wave of them come in when the market picks up. It's a different situation than apartments where turnovers can be annual.

Midtown seems to be hitting critical mass, so give it a couple years. Over the last year many new businesses have opened that couldn't have survived until now. Residents are already well-served and that will only get better. I don't think it will ever be a destination with Atlantic Station around, though.

But on that same note, who wants to rent an apartment in an area devoid of retail? One party has to have faith that the other will eventually come, but it's sometimes difficult to get retailers into an area without a critical mass of residents AND it's sometimes difficult to get people living in an area without a critical mass of supporting retail. Sounds to me like a "chicken or egg" situation.

[clexmond]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Bike lanes are a bad idea on Peachtree in Midtown honestly. The street is too small especially considering it's supposed to be the most important street in Atlanta. I think Juniper is more suited for bike lanes. It should probably turned into a two lane street as well.

I think they're a great idea in combination with converting Peachtree to include a center turn lane. The majority of traffic is caused by issues with left turns, and there is a lot of data to support this configuration actually supporting higher traffic flow (and fewer accidents): http://streetmix.net/-/306110

[sakau2007]

Some of you guys are talking like Midtown Atlanta is devoid of places to eat or something. Okay so every place on ground level is not leased yet. Okay. It's coming. And it's just a couple of miles north to Buckhead and south to downtown with tons more choices.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

But on that same note, who wants to rent an apartment in an area devoid of retail?

Not everyone, but enough people to get things going... you could also say, who wants to live in a rundown, high-crime area? But people do, and that's how they get better. Midtown already had a large population when the first grocery store opened, and a lot more highrises went up before the first organic market opened a couple months ago. It's easy for an individual to drive a couple miles to buy something, but a retailer can't drive a couple miles to pick up customers, and (unlike a person buying real estate) they usually don't have the luxury of waiting around for an area to grow.

Keep an eye out over the next couple years and you should see the feedback loop in action... with the most recent wave of retailers (Savi, Ace, Sweet Hut, etc.) there really isn't much that isn't within walking distance, which will attract the residents who weren't willing to concede that, which brings even more retail--particularly the higher-end stores many on here are wanting. There are bound to be some casualties (store closures) along the way, but the overall trend should continue upward for a long time.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Not everyone, but enough people to get things going... you could also say, who wants to live in a rundown, high-crime area? But people do, and that's how they get better. Midtown already had a large population when the first grocery store opened, and a lot more highrises went up before the first organic market opened a couple months ago. It's easy for an individual to drive a couple miles to buy something, but a retailer can't drive a couple miles to pick up customers, and (unlike a person buying real estate) they usually don't have the luxury of waiting around for an area to grow.

Keep an eye out over the next couple years and you should see the feedback loop in action... with the most recent wave of retailers (Savi, Ace, Sweet Hut, etc.) there really isn't much that isn't within walking distance, which will attract the residents who weren't willing to concede that, which brings even more retail--particularly the higher-end stores many on here are wanting. There are bound to be some casualties (store closures) along the way, but the overall trend should continue upward for a long time.

Yes people can drive to other retailers, and that also works in favor of the retailers in areas without critical mass of residents. I'm saying that both situations can attract the other, but you do have to have some people on both sides of the coin to take a slight risk in choosing a location. It's a risk to move into an area for both retailers and residents. It may be more of a risk for retailers, but "the chicken or the egg" scenario still applies here.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

Spring Street is getting a Supercuts and Taco Bell (sans Drive thru):

In the University House development:

[mikeatl77]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

Spring Street is getting a Supercuts and Taco Bell (sans Drive thru):

In the University House development:

Disappointed with the TacoBell, was hoping for a decent local place. Of course, a midnight visit after drinking will change that attitude quickly.

Heard a rumor that Chick-fil-a was interested in putting a location at 33 Peachtree Place nearby.

[testarossa50]

That intersection desperately needs a light. There's currently a completely faded crosswalk that's absurdly dangerous and heavily traveled; and that's before the retail comes on line.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

Originally Posted by mikeatl77

Disappointed with the TacoBell, was hoping for a decent local place. Of course, a midnight visit after drinking will change that attitude quickly.

Heard a rumor that Chick-fil-a was interested in putting a location at 33 Peachtree Place nearby.

There is a permit on Accela for a Which Wich in Suite 5 of 33 Peachtree Place

[GTdan]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

That intersection desperately needs a light. There's currently a completely faded crosswalk that's absurdly dangerous and heavily traveled; and that's before the retail comes on line.

I have been thinking the same thing for a while. Hopefully one will be added soon.

[Martinman]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

Spring Street is getting a Supercuts and Taco Bell (sans Drive thru):

In the University House development:

It's not "sexy" but I think mundane, run-of-the-mill businesses like Taco Bell, Supercuts and Quik Trip are all a part of the equation for creating a neighborhood where people can find most day to day needs within the district.

[Pemgin]

Originally Posted by Martinman

It's not "sexy" but I think mundane, run-of-the-mill businesses like Taco Bell, Supercuts and Quik Trip are all a part of the equation for creating a neighborhood where people can find most day to day needs within the district.

Taco Bell and Supercuts, yes. But Midtown doesn't need a Quik Trip.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

Taco Bell and Supercuts, yes. But Midtown doesn't need a Quik Trip.

Does Quik Trip have an urban format? I doubt it, but I have seen some urban gas stations around and this would be a perfect area for one.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

Taco Bell and Supercuts, yes. But Midtown doesn't need a Quik Trip.

According to ViewPoint's retail map a QuikTrip (sans fuel pumps) is coming to the corner of Peachtree and 6th. I thought that was a bit odd with CVS across the street but I saw some people working in that space the other day so I think it's true.

Somewhat related: I don't have a photo, but they just painted the courtyard on 6th (between Skyhouse and what is apparently a future QuikTrip) so it's not just white anymore.

[Martinman]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

Taco Bell and Supercuts, yes. But Midtown doesn't need a Quik Trip.

Someone posted that a Quik Trip convenience store was coming to the corner space in Viewpoint which would be similar to the 7 Elevens you see everywhere in other cities.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

According to ViewPoint's retail map a QuikTrip (sans fuel pumps) is coming to the corner of Peachtree and 6th. I thought that was a bit odd with CVS across the street but I saw some people working in that space the other day so I think it's true.

Somewhat related: I don't have a photo, but they just painted the courtyard on 6th (between Skyhouse and what is apparently a future QuikTrip) so it's not just white anymore.

QT tried to put in a gas station at Ponce near Argonne. I assume a convenience store in Midtown is what the community is something they know the community would be more supportive of instead. The thing that will set QT apart from CVS is the convenience store will be selling made to order food as well. While it's not a high-end retailer or just another cellular phone store it's bringing amenities that the neighborhood actually needs - convenience.

Wouldn't be surprised if they're open 24 hours as well.

http://www.quiktrip.com/Food/Made-Fresh-To-Order

[Pemgin]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

According to ViewPoint's retail map a QuikTrip (sans fuel pumps) is coming to the corner of Peachtree and 6th. I thought that was a bit odd with CVS across the street but I saw some people working in that space the other day so I think it's true.

Somewhat related: I don't have a photo, but they just painted the courtyard on 6th (between Skyhouse and what is apparently a future QuikTrip) so it's not just white anymore.

Originally Posted by Martinman

Someone posted that a Quik Trip convenience store was coming to the corner space in Viewpoint which would be similar to the 7 Elevens you see everywhere in other cities.

Oh okay. When I hear Quik Trip I automatically assume gas station.

[Martinman]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

QT tried to put in a gas station at Ponce near Argonne. I assume a convenience store in Midtown is what the community is something they know the community would be more supportive of instead. The thing that will set QT apart from CVS is the convenience store will be selling made to order food as well. While it's not a high-end retailer or just another cellular phone store it's bringing amenities that the neighborhood actually needs - convenience.

Wouldn't be surprised if they're open 24 hours as well.

http://www.quiktrip.com/Food/Made-Fresh-To-Order

Not only that but self-serve coffee, donuts, snacks and mass quantities of carbonated beverages. I think they will make a killing.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

Gas stations actually make very thin margins on gas. Most of their profits come from sales inside. Fountain machine/coffee is especially lucrative.

It looks like Alta @ the Park may be moving forward soon. Wood Partners have begun to file for various construction permits relating to foundation.

Also Midtown Alliance have released the final design for the Spring Street streetscape improvements from 17th to Peachtree St.
http://www.midtownatl.com/_files/docs/project_description_spring_street.pdf