Phoenix Development News (3)

[biggus diggus]

What area restaurants and bars?

[PHXFlyer11]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/...bs-are-heading-downtown-to-phoenixs.html

I hope that this continues. It would be really good to see the Ballpark Apartments finally happen with the jobs down there. Also, the Luhrs hotel, Barrister apartments (or were they condos?) will help. I hope to see another bar pop up in the area and maybe a 6-8 story office building and 6-8 story apartments.

Does anyone know if the Luhrs hotel will have a restaurant/bar? Or is it just the typical Courtyard little dining counter?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/...bs-are-heading-downtown-to-phoenixs.html

I hope that this continues. It would be really good to see the Ballpark Apartments finally happen with the jobs down there. Also, the Luhrs hotel, Barrister apartments (or were they condos?) will help. I hope to see another bar pop up in the area and maybe a 6-8 story office building and 6-8 story apartments.

Does anyone know if the Luhrs hotel will have a restaurant/bar? Or is it just the typical Courtyard little dining counter?

Id guess the Marriot has your standard hotel bar but nothing fancy...who knows though the plans have been very closed up we dont even have a complete rendering.

Barrister is building 88 condo/lofts and ground floor retail so that could have bars/restaurants

Ballpark is making me nervous, that an central station.

[biggus diggus]

Due to the impending complete over-saturation you guys shouldn't expect too many new buildings breaking ground. Financing is starting to tighten up for that reason and interest rates are about to rise.

[ASU Diablo]

Interesting, more chatter around Block 23 and potential for urban grocery store

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/...arcel-develop-into-the-long-desired.html

We’ve dutifully reported on both a much-coveted downtown Phoenix grocery store and possible developments of parcel called Block 23 in between Collier Center and CityScape.

Grocery stores have been sought and floated for a number of downtown developments over the years while a two-story Target store, hotels and office buildings have been proposed for Block 23. That has long been a parking lot and underground parking south of Talking Stick Resort Arena on the parcel bounded by First and Second and Washington and Jefferson streets.

Block 23 was home to concerts and other Super Bowl XLIX events earlier this year and will likely be used for downtown events for January’s College Football Playoff Championship Game. Now, Block 23 and the coveted downtown supermarket are being talked about in the same breath.


The chatter is that RED Development, which built the CityScape and attracted chains such as Urban Outfitters, Chipotle Mexican Grill, Tilted Kilt and Starbucks, is looking at developing Block 23.

A new Block 23 development would be under the CityScape banner. It would likely be a deal where the city of Phoenix owns the land but allocates development rights and consequently lower property taxes to RED. That is a common practice in downtown Phoenix.

RED also handles property management at Collier Center.

There is also chatter that part of the Block 23 development could be the mythical downtown grocery store, in particular a Fry’s Food store.

“With the recent growth and density of this area plus the expansion of the ASU downtown campus, there’s no doubt that a grocery store would be an excellent addition to the downtown Phoenix landscape,” said RED Development Marketing and Communications Director Stephanie Whitlow. “Currently, the city owns Block 23 and RED does not have any news to share regarding any sort of development of that parcel of land.”

Fry’s is owned by Cincinnati-based Kroger Co. which has looked developing more stores in urban settings.

“Fry’s is always looking at opportunities for store projects throughout Arizona,” said spokeswoman Jo Ellen Lynn when asked about a potential downtown location.

Diego Romero, a spokesman for Phoenix-based Sprouts Farmers Markets said his company also does not have any current plans for a downtown store.

A source familiar with the situation said developers and a potential tenant have been talking to Arizona Public Service Co. about a possible project and how to fit that in with the existing downtown electricity grid.

APS spokeswoman Jenna Shaver said the utility doesn’t comment on potential developments.

There was previously talk of a Fry’s or another grocer locating at the Central Station development planned for Van Buren and Central Avenues.

There’s also redevelopment expectations at the Arizona Center.

Those two projects are closer to Arizona State University’s 11,200-student downtown campus and Roosevelt Row where there trendy businesses and more housing.

Attracting a grocery store is a symbol to downtown advocates that the Phoenix’s central business district has arrived as a live-work area.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by airomero83

Interesting, more chatter around Block 23 and potential for urban grocery store

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/...arcel-develop-into-the-long-desired.html

I really fear that this project is going to be shitty as hell and get pushed through because it has the grocery store so many want. My guess, grocery store and restaurants on ground floor with 6 stories of apartments above. Really hope not, but....

Anyone know how the cityscape apartments are doing? If they are doing well maybe we could see an apartment tower. Lots going up in Roosevelt, but id argue that is a different audience. Is there demand for more high-rise living downtown right now? I hate phased, but would hope they did an apartment tower with ground floor grocery on 1/2 of that block, then saved the other half for future demand.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I really fear that this project is going to be shitty as hell and get pushed through because it has the grocery store so many want. My guess, grocery store and restaurants on ground floor with 6 stories of apartments above. Really hope not, but....

Anyone know how the cityscape apartments are doing? If they are doing well maybe we could see an apartment tower. Lots going up in Roosevelt, but id argue that is a different audience. Is there demand for more high-rise living downtown right now? I hate phased, but would hope they did an apartment tower with ground floor grocery on 1/2 of that block, then saved the other half for future demand.

Id say that the demand for high-rise living is just novelty as it is still pretty rare in Arizona to have high rises. I bet they would sell considering every other high-rise seems to manage so far.

Phoenix has been doing better I don't think they'll let 7 stories fly when there are high rises on all three other sides and the stadium on another.

on a side note I really enjoyed the Super bowl block party, anyone consider turning block 23 into a public square?

anybody?.....anybody?....

[biggus diggus]

The rumors carry some validity, the boys over at RED have been pretty gung-ho about this for about 18 months and are doing everything they can to push it through. No tenants are signed up as of now but there are a few they have had preliminary discussions with.

[Freeway]

I don't see an issue with a 7-story building on the Block 23 site. It's much better than the vacant lot that is there now. Phoenix should focus on creating an active downtown and not just throwing up 20+ story buildings just for show. If there is demand for 20+ story apartments, fine. However, with all that is being built now and Central Station starting construction next year, I highly doubt there will be more demand for more high rise residential downtown.

Originally Posted by Obadno

Id say that the demand for high-rise living is just novelty as it is still pretty rare in Arizona to have high rises. I bet they would sell considering every other high-rise seems to manage so far.

Phoenix has been doing better I don't think they'll let 7 stories fly when there are high rises on all three other sides and the stadium on another.

on a side note I really enjoyed the Super bowl block party, anyone consider turning block 23 into a public square?

anybody?.....anybody?....

High rise living has existed in Phoenix for almost 60 years now. I don't think it's a novelty to anyone here. The Executive Tower on Clarendon between 2nd and 3rd Ave, the Regency House on Central and Hoover, and the Phoenix Towers on Central and Monte Vista are all prime examples. Interestingly, all three buildings are taller than anything being built in the city now.

[biggus diggus]

Longevity doesn't make it common.

[combusean]

A source familiar with the situation said developers and a potential tenant have been talking to Arizona Public Service Co. about a possible project and how to fit that in with the existing downtown electricity grid.

This is not going to be a seven story building. This actually could be a very, very large one if electrical upgrades to infrastructure have to be made beforehand.

[gymratmanaz]

Combusean, I was thinking the same thing. Upgrades and/or clarifying with APS would call for something out of the ordinary. I don't think that would be said for something fairly basic. Were they talked to for anything on the Mid-Level forum page?

[dtnphx]

I'm excited to hear about the possible development of that parcel since it was originally part of the Cityscape proposal way back when. It called for 4 giant (if I recall 30 or 40-story condo towers-what were they smokin'?). I don't believe that is a great spot for a grocery store, IMO. It should be nearer to ASU and all of the other housing going up closer to Roosevelt. Who is gonna walk to a grocery store in the middle of a block in such a dense area and then carry groceries back. There's not that many people living down there now, even if they put apartments on that site. I also think constant truck deliveries to the site would be disruptive traffic-wise and a bitch with all the streets (for the most part being one-way). Hopefully the project will not have one of those elevated plazas like Cityscape and Colliers Center both have.

[Tylerrrr]

drove by Portland on the Park this morning and saw a few semi's carrying what looked to be metal and glass parked around the complex.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

I'm excited to hear about the possible development of that parcel since it was originally part of the Cityscape proposal way back when. It called for 4 giant (if I recall 30 or 40-story condo towers-what were they smokin'?). I don't believe that is a great spot for a grocery store, IMO. It should be nearer to ASU and all of the other housing going up closer to Roosevelt. Who is gonna walk to a grocery store in the middle of a block in such a dense area and then carry groceries back. There's not that many people living down there now, even if they put apartments on that site. I also think constant truck deliveries to the site would be disruptive traffic-wise and a bitch with all the streets (for the most part being one-way). Hopefully the project will not have one of those elevated plazas like Cityscape and Colliers Center both have.

Exactly, re: the location. When 4 condo towers were planned, maybe an AJ's made sense. But, beyond this lot and the whopping 88 units at Barrister, there aren't many multifamily spots left in comfortable walking distance. And, like I mentioned when this was first reported, a grocery store at the center of 4 entertainment developments (clubs along Washington, CityScape along 1st St, Colliers along 2nd St, USAC along Jefferson) is a terrible fit. I feel like this crusade for a grocery store is going to leave downtown with a poorly designed box in an odd location. Every other indicator says downtown is doing well; let the apartments fill and then let a grocer open when and where it makes sense (i.e., somewhere close to McKinley/1st Ave or even in AZ Center as alluded to in the article).

Even worse is your second comment re: the design. I don't RED near this block. The plans called for the same interior canyon space of CityScape and Colliers, with backs turned to Washington and Jefferson. Not only does it kill the energy of both streets, but it doesn't even synergize with the middle portions of the other projects; CityScape's center is a large set of stairs, and Colliers' is a cramped, small plaza of patios. If this were going to create one continuous active open space at the same level, I'd at least get the vision. Otherwise, it's simply poor design.

Hopefully, RED never touches it. I'd personally like a W Hotel + Residences on one half and super-tall office on the other, but I'd settle for just a well-designed block that faces all 4 streets appropriately.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/...bs-are-heading-downtown-to-phoenixs.html

I hope that this continues. It would be really good to see the Ballpark Apartments finally happen with the jobs down there. Also, the Luhrs hotel, Barrister apartments (or were they condos?) will help. I hope to see another bar pop up in the area and maybe a 6-8 story office building and 6-8 story apartments.

Does anyone know if the Luhrs hotel will have a restaurant/bar? Or is it just the typical Courtyard little dining counter?

While I'd like to see residential there to add to the 24/7 etc., I really REALLY hope Ballpark fails. That's pretty much the worst project that could be proposed for the location, and was only relatively acceptable when it was announced in early days of recovery. But, now, I really don't want 4-story apartments that demo 4 warehouses and turn 2 great-looking historic buildings into a gym + leasing center.

I'd love to see an org like Artspace get ahold of that land. With the building stock available, connection to Hispanic culture of south Phoenix, and proximity to ASU's growing art program, Phoenix would get something deservedly more inspired.

I am sure the Luhrs Marriotts will have internal bar/restaurant service, but I am 99% sure that the only entrances to that project will be the lobby doors on the corner of Madison and Central. When I asked for a full rendering, they couldn't oblige, but did say in regards to my question about street presence that "I think the goal is to encourage guests to use the retail along Jefferson." While I hope the new Luhrs' owners are more successful at leasing those spaces, would it really have hurt to have at least included street-facing bar/restaurant spaces? Shitty when you consider the dozen+ retail bays in the gorgeous building they knocked over that would have been great for creative businesses in transition to the Warehouse District.

Considering that demolition + the demolition of the Madison and St. James, it seems pretty likely that there won't be retail down Central as part of the Barrister project. When your only neighbor is a heinous county courts building, I can understand why a developer would be hesitant. So, I imagine retail in that project will be limited to the small ground level of the actual Barrister Building. It won't happen, but it would be cool if they had a few "Psycho" inspired places... "Norm's Cafe" (24 hour diner), "American Psycho" (rooftop cocktail lounge), etc.

[biggus diggus]

Here's a picture of those apartments they're building.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

Combusean, I was thinking the same thing. Upgrades and/or clarifying with APS would call for something out of the ordinary. I don't think that would be said for something fairly basic. Were they talked to for anything on the Mid-Level forum page?

I can't recall hearing about APS upgrades for any project. Usually APS does that sort of thing beforehand, like gobbling up the block on 6th St for a substation preceding the biomedical campus buildout.

(incidentally, APS owns a *lot* of land downtown. I wouldn't be surprised if they start building on top of those stations as time progresses...)

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by combusean

I can't recall hearing about APS upgrades for any project. Usually APS does that sort of thing beforehand, like gobbling up the block on 6th St for a substation preceding the biomedical campus buildout.

(incidentally, APS owns a *lot* of land downtown. I wouldn't be surprised if they start building on top of those stations as time progresses...)

You mean the things on Roosevelt/6th St, Garfield/2nd St, 3rd or 4th Ave, etc.? Do you think that really is a possibility? Those guys are real downers, especially the two in Roosevelt Row. The one on 6th St + adjacent gas station is a horrible gateway, and the one on Garfield contributes to the disconnect with the businesses south of Roosevelt.

Street Coffee just opened in one of the homes on the west side of 7th st near the PBC; sounds like a Japanese place is also coming soon. What do you guys think of the small clusters of older homes along 7th st? I love seeing the idea of spreading adaptive reuse east to connect Garfield/Eastlake. But, projects like the Cancer Center and Circle K make its auto-oriented future pretty clear.. moving homes is entirely unrealistic and rare, but I wish they could be moved to the city property on 2nd St north of Roosevelt. I also fear what fate the two HP homes across from Skyline will be subjected to when the PBC expands on the same "island." Moving a couple of other houses, and using each for health/wellness purposes (yoga studio, farm to table restaurant, a downtown Madison Club, nutrition shop...) with a community garden and outdoor recreation in between would be a really great way of connecting the PBC to the community.

[biggus diggus]

She's not going to make it as a coffee shop at that location, after talking to her for a half hour about development and her renovation of the building is clear she's a smart woman but has no clue what she's doing with a coffee shop.

Plus it's on the wrong side of the street, don't pretend that's not incredibly important.