Sacramento Proposal/Approval/Construction Thread - III

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by Pistola916

Originally Posted by enigma99a:
Be glad they didn't or there might be height restrictions over downtown

Meh, this town can't build anything over 450 feet even without height restrictions.

Be that as it may, if the airport was too close in, taller buildings would essentially be outlawed. See SAN Airport (Lindbergh Field) as an example, where taller buildings downtown or closer to shore are automatically ruled out.

[enigma99a]

Originally Posted by NickB1967

Be that as it may, if the airport was too close in, taller buildings would essentially be outlawed. See SAN Airport (Lindbergh Field) as an example, where taller buildings downtown or closer to shore are automatically ruled out.

Also see San Jose. From wikipedia: The United States city of San Jose, California, known for its height-limited downtown skyline due to its proximity to San Jose International Airport, has over 46 high-rises, mostly in downtown. Over 16 buildings stand taller than 200 feet (61 m), but no buildings reach 290 feet (88 m).

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by enigma99a

Also see San Jose. From wikipedia: The United States city of San Jose, California, known for its height-limited downtown skyline due to its proximity to San Jose International Airport, has over 46 high-rises, mostly in downtown. Over 16 buildings stand taller than 200 feet (61 m), but no buildings reach 290 feet (88 m).

Yes indeed! In fact, for noise abatement, San Jose had to remove several hundred odd homes in a wedge shaped space under the SJC Airport approach zone; the area now contains U-Store-It warehouses and "The Guadalupe River Park and Gardens". These were little cottage homes not unlike those in the midtown Sacramento area. And this in an area with some of the most expensive homes in the country already:

http://www.grpg.org/river-park-gardens/

Meanwhile, proposals to build an airport on the edge of the bay by Alviso were nixed by the "every swamp is sacred" eco-fiends.

But somehow, putting people into commutes from as far away as Stockton and Modesto, burning who knows how much extra fuel and displacing who knows how many San Joaquin valley critters, is *just fine*.

[Pistola916]

Originally Posted by NickB1967

Be that as it may, if the airport was too close in, taller buildings would essentially be outlawed. See SAN Airport (Lindbergh Field) as an example, where taller buildings downtown or closer to shore are automatically ruled out.

Maybe.

San Jose and San Diego International are less than 3 miles from the city center. Both are literally adjacent to downtown. So I understand why the FAA would place height restrictions there.

If Sac Intl was instead placed where Arco stands now, the distance from downtown would be 6 miles, and with the American River and the American River Pkwy, that's a pretty big buffer zone.

[Mr. Ozo]

Cafe Bernardo and Monkey Bar are generally full (esp. Bernardo) No reason to believe they aren't successful. As pointed out, Monkey Bar is the only bar in this mini section of Midtown.

Anyways the business's would be put in the new structure or would likely stay in place if it wasn't built, so that really should have no merit on the pro's or con's of the new proposed project. Although doubtfull a new Monkey Bar in new construction would have the same neighborhood, semi-cheap prices it currently has.

The way I'm reading the proposal, there will be additional retail and a cocktail lounge on the 6th floor.

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by Pistola916

Maybe.

San Jose and San Diego International are less than 3 miles from the city center. Both are literally adjacent to downtown. So I understand why the FAA would place height restrictions there.

If Sac Intl was instead placed where Arco stands now, the distance from downtown would be 6 miles, and with the American River and the American River Pkwy, that's a pretty big buffer zone.

Remember that back in 1967, when SMF opened, Supersonic passenger transport aircraft (SSTs) were still seen as economically feasible, and I suspect that is why SMF was put further out.

If only the Evil Empire had collapsed sooner, Sacramento could have inherited McLellan and/or Mather for a song. (Mather actually IS getting some use as a cargo airport).

[Mr. Ozo]

I like the Paragary Hotel proposal. But I don't like the idea of losing the building and the housing units. So I came up with the idea of the moving the building to the empty lot around the corner. It would definitely fit in the foot print. I believe the lot is owned by the church, perhaps they could partner with a developer.

[wburg]

The project footprint isn't just on the Monkey Bar/Bernardo building but also the one next to it, a 1980s office building, so the lot you reference wouldn't be big enough for the hotel project (it previously held two fourplexes used by the church's food bank, which burned a few years back and are now a community garden) without taking out the other buildings between the alley and O Street. Sounds like there isn't a chain hotel operator driving the specifications of the project (they're still looking for an operator) so a combo of new and old buildings, something like the Sheraton and Public Market building downtown, or even the Marshall Hotel proposal, with a new/modern and taller building next to the existing old building, might be a very cool combination.

[Mr. Ozo]

No, I'm talking about moving the existing 90-year old two-story building to the empty lot.

[ozone]

What they're talking about.
From the Sacramento Business Journal

Paragary announces new midtown hotel

Sacramento restaurateur and local foodie Godfather Randy Paragary announced this week that he plans to build a new boutique hotel in midtown. The $20 million building would be built on the site of the current Cafe Bernardo building at 28th and Capitol Avenue. This location would be the first hotel in midtown, and there would be plenty of demand from the 592-bed hospital to the north and the new B Street Theatre, which is supposed to be built directly west of the hotel site starting next year.

My opinion is that it will have little opposition (from the city) since it's surrounded by mid-rises and a hotel to serve the hospital makes sense. Plus it's Paragary. It will happen.

[wburg]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ozo

No, I'm talking about moving the existing 90-year old two-story building to the empty lot.

The building is wider than the street. Moving it probably wouldn't be possible even without that pretty much insurmountable obstacle.

The city won't oppose it, because the city generally doesn't oppose anything. Plus, it's Paragary.

[LandofFrost]

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/ne...es-curtis-pk-vill-adds-dollar-store.html


Turns out Petrovich was not bluffing... Curtis park is getting a discount grocery story and a dollar store .... hahahhahahah. The NIMBYs actually managed to make their neighborhood much much worse. Classic.

[enigma99a]

Originally Posted by LandofFrost

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/ne...es-curtis-pk-vill-adds-dollar-store.html


Turns out Petrovich was not bluffing... Curtis park is getting a discount grocery story and a dollar store .... hahahhahahah. The NIMBYs actually managed to make their neighborhood much much worse. Classic.

Never understood what was wrong with the gas station. I have one near me in Rocklin and it looks fine. Another example is Douglas & Sierra College and is in an upscale shopping center

[snfenoc]

I read somewhere (I think it was a Fox 40 report) that many in Curtis Park and the neighboring rich communities actually welcome the idea of discount grocer. Uhhhh huhhhh

It's hard to imagine why...not exactly their demographic.

I guess, compared to a truly awful gas station, a market that sells meats (which are 3 hours from going bad) is the lesser of two evils? Clearly, it's better for the environment when people have to drive farther to get their discount gas...somehow. Anything to oppose Mr. Petrovich, I guess.

To me, this represents a failure in basic human respect by both the developer and the community... Either both sides are so set in their ways that compromise is unfathomable, OR both sides hate each other so much that spite and opposition are the only desirable actions....Maybe it's a mix of both.

It just goes to show that Sacramento needs both new developers AND new citizens. They all suck. Time for new blood.

[Majin]

I'll just copy and paste my response from CD forum. In summary I still agree with the city councils decision:

I don't like NIMBYs, but sorry, the city made the right decision here and should not give into blackmail by an ******* developer. The Curtis Park NIMBY's reasons were probably not honest, but yes adding a huge gas station and large surface parking lot does not advance the city's agenda for dense transit oriented infill. Just building suburban car oriented development right next to a light rail station should not be what the city should be promoting.

It sucks that Petrovich is able to now bring in low end retail (at this point I would not be surprised if he announced the next tenant as a Motel 6) to an otherwise high end neighborhood just to spite but what can you do? Give into blackmail and let developers build mini-rosevilles inside historic century year old neighborhoods? I hope no garbage like this gets built in other upcoming neighborhoods like Oak Park or Broadway and the city learned their lesson on this project. They should not of even let any amendments to the project be approved after it's initial approval. Now the city and the Curtis Park neighborhood is about to be burned.

[snfenoc]

It's ridiculous to think a gas station completely destroys the idea of a TOD, which happens to be on the edge of the central city, anyway. It's merely an excuse to oppose. Much ado about nothing.

Having said that, Paul Petrovich is a petulant, obdurate ass. I am as pro property rights as you are going to get...on this forum, anyway. The council was wrong. But Mr. Petrovich's constant opposition to any differing ideas, his hate for true mixed-use development and his bitchy, woe is me, victim attitude are getting tiring. I am sure there are a number of options other than simply sticking it to one of Sacramento's most venerable neighborhoods. I was just in downtown Santa Ana - they have fairly large building that is home to multiple small food vendors, etc. It reminded me of the Grand Central Market in DTLA. Why not something like that? Add a smaller, Sprouts-like grocer to appeal to the progressive, organic nutbags, maybe a live music venue, and little more housing. Get creative in the face adversity from neighborhood association f****rs, don't turn into a jerk. Talk about cutting off you nose to spite your face...I'd like to see if he ever gets another project approved after all this. Again, time for new blood.

[wburg]

Considering that the neighborhood nearby just lost an inexpensive supermarket (Mercado Loco on Fruitridge and Sutterville) there is an apparent need for one in the area--not just Curtis Park but North City Farms, South Oak Park and Carleton Tract. And while Curtis Park has something of a tony reputation, many parts of the neighborhood aren't all that fancy, or at least not to the point where they'd never darken the door of a Grocery Outlet.

This really could turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Grocery Outlet and Dollar Tree have both opened central city locations in the past few years, in Midtown and Southside Park, and both get quite a bit of neighborhood business from an area considered very up-and-coming, with an economically diverse population ranging from SRO residents to dwellers of million-dollar historic homes and high-end condos. Most importantly, so far, no stabbings or shootings have occurred at either location. On the other hand, the Petrovich built Safeway at 19th and S has gained a reputation as the "Stabby Safeway", multiple assaults with knives and firearms have taken place there since its opening.

[snfenoc]

I hope you're right, and it becomes an asset. We shall see.

[Pistola916]

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/ne...midtown-tower-gets-positive-reviews.html

[innov8]

Originally Posted by Pistola916

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/ne...midtown-tower-gets-positive-reviews.html

Did you read the part where wburg took his best shot to shut it down?

"Our concern is that there wasn't any comparison of the scale of the project
when compared to the neighborhood," said William Burg of Preservation
Sacramento, an advocacy group for historic building preservation.

If he would look across the street he would see a nine story residential bldg.

Wburg's demonstrating how he truly is a hindrance to development.