Saskatoon Construction II

[Toontone]

Originally Posted by Stormer

Why would they think two pedestrian sidewalks are needed. Very odd.

Sharrows
A "shared lane bicycle pavement marking" used primarily used on roads with moderate to high cyclist volumes where bicycle lanes cannot be provided due to space constraints. Sharrows are intended to indicate the appropriate cyclist position within a shared lane, to alert drivers to the presence of cyclists and to encourage drivers to share the road with cyclists.

Bikes, mixed with cars, on bridges do not make any sense. What they could do is install cameras on the bridge and ticket every car that, "Illegally" crosses the solid yellow line when they pass a bike. Now there will be a revenue source!! On second thought.......nah cars would never consider passing a bike. Would they?
On a side note: Where will the 1000's of people shown in the sample picture of, "The Bridge Bazaar" park?

Keep it simple. Bikes on one side. People on the other. Cars down the middle.

[Arts]

Originally Posted by Echoes

^ I know it's just one traffic lane in each direction and that traffic will be fairly slow but, come on, why not put in a dedicated bike lane from the beginning instead of these useless sharrows?

Victoria Ave could become a fantastic corridor for cyclists into/out of downtown. It has less traffic than Broadway and is plenty wide to accommodate cycling infrastructure.

One of many, many missed opportunities with this bridge.

It's encouraging that the renderings suggest that the bridge will be "event-ready" so that it can be closed for special occasions. It would be great if it was closed every Saturday and Sunday all summer, or something.

They should wrap the whole upper half of the bridge structure in a lightweight transparent membrane, either flexible like fabric or rigid like Mosiac stadium, so that there is some shelter from the elements and street(bridge) vendors wouldn't have to pack their portable shelters onto it as in that render. Would shed rain and snow (less winter maintenance), possibly block wind (more conducive for pedestrians) and still allow light in so that it doesn't become a hangout for muggers and gang members.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Echoes

Happening now: City unveiling more details about Traffic Bridge at open house

SASKATOON STARPHOENIX
Published on: December 2, 2015 | Last Updated: December 2, 2015 6:26 PM CST



^ I know it's just one traffic lane in each direction and that traffic will be fairly slow but, come on, why not put in a dedicated bike lane from the beginning instead of these useless sharrows?

Victoria Ave could become a fantastic corridor for cyclists into/out of downtown. It has less traffic than Broadway and is plenty wide to accommodate cycling infrastructure.

One of many, many missed opportunities with this bridge.

It's encouraging that the renderings suggest that the bridge will be "event-ready" so that it can be closed for special occasions. It would be great if it was closed every Saturday and Sunday all summer, or something.

Well, there was an option to have a generic concrete bridge with wider vehicle lanes, separated bike lanes, and normal pedestrian lanes. It would've been cheaper than the steel truss bridge city council settled on.

I am very unimpressed with this bridge, but I probably should stop posting about it because there's nothing my bitching will do about it now.

[Arts]

Originally Posted by Cicero

...I am very unimpressed with this bridge, but I probably should stop posting about it because there's nothing my bitching will do about it now.

Everybody I know is bitching about it, it was a compromise meant to please everyone but that is going to end up satisfying nobody.

[dsmmace]

It's not too late to change the designations of each side, one for bikes, one for pedestrians.

I hear they will start installing the berm below this year in January to allow some of the demolition. It is really quite surprising to see the railway ties literally disintegrating under the asphalt.

Main site office will be on Central Ave for the North Commuter projects.

[Toontone]

Originally Posted by dsmmace

It's not too late to change the designations of each side, one for bikes, one for pedestrians.

I hear they will start installing the berm below this year in January to allow some of the demolition. It is really quite surprising to see the railway ties literally disintegrating under the asphalt.

Main site office will be on Central Ave for the North Commuter projects.

In regards to The North Commuter projects.....Do you know the location on Central where the office will be established? When it will be up and running?
Thanks.

[Brutopian]

32K could one day work in north sector

By reporter Phil Tank, Saskatoon StarPhoenix

November 25, 2015
​

Here’s what you need to know about the City of Saskatoon’s north sector plan to add nearly 20 square kilometres of industrial space north of the Marquis Industrial area.

Saskatoon city council unanimously endorsed the plan at Monday’s public hearings meeting.

A river runs through it

The city plans to add a major new employment area that is expected to accommodate 32,000 workers at full build out on the opposite side of the South Saskatchewan River from where major residential growth is slated.

Janice Braden, chair of the municipal planning commission, pointed this out at Monday’s meeting, citing it as the commission’s major concern with the plan.

The city expects much of the growth in Saskatoon over the next three years to take place in the northeast University Heights sector and the eastern Holmwood sector — both on the other side of the river.

[........]

Read more:
http://thestarphoenix.com/business/local-business/city-plans-for-north-industrial-expansion

[casper]

Originally Posted by Brutopian

32K could one day work in north sector

By reporter Phil Tank, Saskatoon StarPhoenix

November 25, 2015
​

Here’s what you need to know about the City of Saskatoon’s north sector plan to add nearly 20 square kilometres of industrial space north of the Marquis Industrial area.

Saskatoon city council unanimously endorsed the plan at Monday’s public hearings meeting.

A river runs through it

The city plans to add a major new employment area that is expected to accommodate 32,000 workers at full build out on the opposite side of the South Saskatchewan River from where major residential growth is slated.

Janice Braden, chair of the municipal planning commission, pointed this out at Monday’s meeting, citing it as the commission’s major concern with the plan.

The city expects much of the growth in Saskatoon over the next three years to take place in the northeast University Heights sector and the eastern Holmwood sector — both on the other side of the river.

[........]

Read more:
http://thestarphoenix.com/business/local-business/city-plans-for-north-industrial-expansion

It is amazing how well Saskatoon is absorbing all the warehouse and industrial space.

Taking more of a regional perspective on it. There is residential develop and growth to the North, East and West of this area. This helps fill in some of the gap between Saskatoon and Martinsville and Warman.

You just need both Martinsville and Warman to double in size (which is consistent with their recent history) and there will be good justification for amalgamation when they start to touch each other. You then need Saskatoon to annex the resulting municipality. There may be some urban sprawl criticism in some circles.

[jigglysquishy]

We 100% should criticize the sprawl. Martensville and Warman make off like bandits.

I also highly doubt Saskatoon and those communities combine. Saskatoon will likely never absorb another municipality.

[Arts]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

We 100% should criticize the sprawl. Martensville and Warman make off like bandits.

I also highly doubt Saskatoon and those communities combine. Saskatoon will likely never absorb another municipality.

How so do Martensville and Warman make off like bandits? I do foresee tons of growth in those communities, and expect them, plus Osler, to be one contiguous developed area within 50 years, but agree that there is a lot of ground between them and the current north boundary of Saskatoon city limits. May end up being separate cities like St.Albert is to Edmonton.

[dsmmace]

Originally Posted by casper

It is amazing how well Saskatoon is absorbing all the warehouse and industrial space.

Taking more of a regional perspective on it. There is residential develop and growth to the North, East and West of this area. This helps fill in some of the gap between Saskatoon and Martinsville and Warman.

You just need both Martinsville and Warman to double in size (which is consistent with their recent history) and there will be good justification for amalgamation when they start to touch each other. You then need Saskatoon to annex the resulting municipality. There may be some urban sprawl criticism in some circles.

Have there been new companies moving into the area or are we seeing old companies Design Build new offices/shops.

Any new businesses looking to move here from Alberta yet?! I haven't seen anything to indicate that trend.

[Arts]

Originally Posted by dsmmace

Have there been new companies moving into the area or are we seeing old companies Design Build new offices/shops.

Any new businesses looking to move here from Alberta yet?! I haven't seen anything to indicate that trend.

I'm sure there are a few new startups and a couple companies establishing a presence here for the first time, but I suspect most of the industrial/commercial growth is existing companies that are expanding, upgrading or just relocating. Some of the buildings they leave behind them are likely to be repurposed or demolished to eventually make way for residential infill...

[CCF]

Originally Posted by Arts

How so do Martensville and Warman make off like bandits? I do foresee tons of growth in those communities, and expect them, plus Osler, to be one contiguous developed area within 50 years, but agree that there is a lot of ground between them and the current north boundary of Saskatoon city limits. May end up being separate cities like St.Albert is to Edmonton.

The impact of residents from those communities using services and infrastructure paid by residents of Saskatoon while contributing little to no part of the cost.

[casper]

Originally Posted by dsmmace

Have there been new companies moving into the area or are we seeing old companies Design Build new offices/shops.

Any new businesses looking to move here from Alberta yet?! I haven't seen anything to indicate that trend.

I have the impression that a lot of new construction in the North Industrial area have been driven by existing companies out growing there current buildings and deciding to go into purpose built buildings.

I think most start-up and companies from other parts of Canada looking to have a branch office in Saskatoon are more likely to move into older industrial space basically starting small.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Arts

How so do Martensville and Warman make off like bandits? I do foresee tons of growth in those communities, and expect them, plus Osler, to be one contiguous developed area within 50 years, but agree that there is a lot of ground between them and the current north boundary of Saskatoon city limits. May end up being separate cities like St.Albert is to Edmonton.

Both Martensville and Warman sit between Highway 11 and 12. You just need them to double in size (staying between those two highways) and they basically bump into each other.

There is already a strip of industrial business running up Highway 12 between the city of Saskatoon boundaries and Martensville.

[Arts]

Originally Posted by CCF

The impact of residents from those communities using services and infrastructure paid by residents of Saskatoon while contributing little to no part of the cost.

Most services available to them are ones that have a user fee equal or greater than the marginal cost of providing those services, and the infrastructure in Saskatoon they use is actually for the benefit of the Saskatoon economy. Better yet, the urban sprawl/cost of maintaining the low density neighbourhoods they live in are paid by their own municipal taxes.

If there is any opportunity cost it is that the property tax income is going to a different municipality, but since low density areas are essentially subsidized by everyone else in Saskatoon, we (who pay taxes in Saskatoon) are farther ahead financially when those bedroom communities grow (so long as they remain their own municipality).

[jigglysquishy]

Originally Posted by Arts

Most services available to them are ones that have a user fee equal or greater than the marginal cost of providing those services, and the infrastructure in Saskatoon they use is actually for the benefit of the Saskatoon economy. Better yet, the urban sprawl/cost of maintaining the low density neighbourhoods they live in are paid by their own municipal taxes.

If there is any opportunity cost it is that the property tax income is going to a different municipality, but since low density areas are essentially subsidized by everyone else in Saskatoon, we (who pay taxes in Saskatoon) are farther ahead financially when those bedroom communities grow (so long as they remain their own municipality).

You are 100% incorrect.

Residents in Martensville/Warman commute into Saskatoon on the daily. Who pays for Saskatoon roads? Not Martensville/Warman taxpayers. How about the infrastructure improvements in the north industrial area to accommodate Martensville/Warman drivers? Paid for by Saskatoon taxpayers.

Go to the pool? Yes, there's a user fee, but the usage is subsidized by Saskatoon taxpayers.

They are contributing 20,000 cars onto Saskatoon roads a day and not paying for it. It is making traffic worse and polluting the city.

They're pulling business away from the City too. Since they aren't paying their true cost they can charge industry below-true cost levels since Saskatoon taxpayers subsidize it. This is a huge issue in Edmonton where the suburb communities have huge industrial bases, yet the costs are borne by the City of Edmonton.

Martensville and Warman are a drag on the region, are subsidized by Saskatoon, and are some of the worst urban sprawl offenders in the province.

[Arts]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

You are 100% incorrect.

Residents in Martensville/Warman commute into Saskatoon on the daily. Who pays for Saskatoon roads? Not Martensville/Warman taxpayers. How about the infrastructure improvements in the north industrial area to accommodate Martensville/Warman drivers? Paid for by Saskatoon taxpayers.

Go to the pool? Yes, there's a user fee, but the usage is subsidized by Saskatoon taxpayers.

They are contributing 20,000 cars onto Saskatoon roads a day and not paying for it. It is making traffic worse and polluting the city.

They're pulling business away from the City too. Since they aren't paying their true cost they can charge industry below-true cost levels since Saskatoon taxpayers subsidize it. This is a huge issue in Edmonton where the suburb communities have huge industrial bases, yet the costs are borne by the City of Edmonton.

Martensville and Warman are a drag on the region, are subsidized by Saskatoon, and are some of the worst urban sprawl offenders in the province.

People from bedroom communities don't just use our roads because they feel like driving around all day, they are using our roads to conduct commerce. The province bears most of the cost of the highways they travel on to get here (ie subsidized by everyone in the province). Why wouldn't we want travellers to come to our city? Your logic is like saying we don't want tourists because they use the amenities that the locals have to pay for. They may not pay for it directly, but the more they use them the more it is helping us to pay for it.

As for sprawl, my point is it's better that they are paying for their own local roads and sewers themselves instead of moving to areas like in the NW part of town where a commuter bridge is now is necessary for which all Saskatonians have to subsidize. At least the Warman and Martensville suburbs are actually in close proximity to where we are planning vast industrial growth within our own city boundary. And if you think they are getting the better end of the deal you are also free to take advantage of that by moving there.

As for businesses being pulled away, that would only negate your complaint about them using businesses here... I think you need to pick a side on that particular issue.

[jigglysquishy]

Originally Posted by Arts

People from bedroom communities don't just use our roads because they feel like driving around all day, they are using our roads to conduct commerce. The province bears most of the cost of the highways they travel on to get here (ie subsidized by everyone in the province). Why wouldn't we want travellers to come to our city? Your logic is like saying we don't want tourists because they use the amenities that the locals have to pay for. They may not pay for it directly, but the more they use them the more it is helping us to pay for it.

As for sprawl, my point is it's better that they are paying for their own local roads and sewers themselves instead of moving to areas like in the NW part of town where a commuter bridge is now is necessary for which all Saskatonians have to subsidize. At least the Warman and Martensville suburbs are actually in close proximity to where we are planning vast industrial growth within our own city boundary. And if you think they are getting the better end of the deal you are also free to take advantage of that by moving there.

As for businesses being pulled away, that would only negate your complaint about them using businesses here... I think you need to pick a side on that particular issue.

They shop here, but drag industrial (i.e. a majority of our commercial tax) away. Whatever business they do would be better if they lived within city limits. The infrastructure cost of building out to there is insane and Saskatoon picks up the tab.

They conduct commerce in the city, but so too do local residents. But local residents are taxed. So if you have two people spending the same amount of money in the city, but one lives in Warman than that person pays less into Saskatoon. Idylwyld is a mess, but not because of Saskatoon residents, but of the 20,000 commuters from north of city limits. The road cost outside the city is absorbed by the province, but inside the city they don't pay for it while Saskatoon residents do.

I would never move to Warman. I think its unethical to live in that community so to move there would be hypocritical.

If residents in Warman/Martensville were no longer subsidized their growth would plummet. A major reason for their growth is that they get subsidized more than any other community in the province.

[Arts]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

They shop here, but drag industrial (i.e. a majority of our commercial tax) away. Whatever business they do would be better if they lived within city limits. The infrastructure cost of building out to there is insane and Saskatoon picks up the tab.

Does Saskatoon pick up the tab? I don't think city council would approve administration to plan or build infrastructure projects outside of the city limits unless there were clear contracts and a demonstrable benefit to Saskatoon...

They conduct commerce in the city, but so too do local residents. But local residents are taxed. So if you have two people spending the same amount of money in the city, but one lives in Warman than that person pays less into Saskatoon. Idylwyld is a mess, but not because of Saskatoon residents, but of the 20,000 commuters from north of city limits. The road cost outside the city is absorbed by the province, but inside the city they don't pay for it while Saskatoon residents do.

I would never move to Warman. I think its unethical to live in that community so to move there would be hypocritical.

The way I interpret your concerns isn't really about boundaries or jurisdictions, it's that car culture outside of the city has made walkability for those like you who want it less attainable. I get it, and I share a part of the frustration. But the automobile isn't going anywhere in the immediate future. Suburbs happen because so many people desire that kind of lifestyle, and so if those people who live in Warman were to live inside Saskatoon boundaries instead, they'd be wanting big houses on big lots here, and the problem would just be compounding faster for us.

The reason lots in Warman are cheaper than saskatoon isn't because they have gotten free use of Saskatoon utilities, it's because they have not been playing the land-development-pyramid-scheme nearly as long as Saskatoon has. Land is more here because the city needs the continued sale revenues to service it's existing massive infrastructure debt.

If residents in Warman/Martensville were no longer subsidized their growth would plummet. A major reason for their growth is that they get subsidized more than any other community in the province.

Whether they continue to grow or not, their infrastructure debt will catch up to them.