PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[thisisforreal]

I gotta say, Nippert Stadium is special. Open to students 24-hours a day (mostly because it is situated in the middle of campus and to close it off would make lots of people late getting from class to class), you'll find people playing ultimate on a weekday afternoon, or doing some fraternity ritual at the 50-yard line at two in the morning (guilty), or practicing a tour de stade in the morning. It really is an awesome part of the campus.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

agree but I an see the city wanting to position that they dont have to foot any bill

That's kind of what I'm saying too: If Temple wants to build it, then they must foot the bill. And if they foot the bill, then nobody else -- not the City, not the state -- should be in a position to deny them it.

If Temple want to build it so be it; it probably wont have any huge impact one way or another on urbanity. It could be a plus for Temple and their football team.

Agreed. I think the urban issues of the stadium have been blown waaay out of proportion. It's more like residual distaste of how the Linc got funded and built than considering the project on its own merits.

North Broad needs other things more like jobs and businesses than anything else. It would be great if there was someway to foster/incubate money for startups on North Broad from SG to Temple or even med reaserch from Temple to Temple Med (UCity light) and could be centered on TOD at North Broad - if only there was a way to get employers or money there to do so...

North Broad has two major hospitals -- Temple/Shriners and Einstein -- along it. A medical-incubation space is an excellent idea for adaptive reuse. Botany 500 is massive -- it could be part of a redevelopment project of that structure (which, I would imagine, would have to include multiple uses to work).

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

That's kind of what I'm saying too: If Temple wants to build it, then they must foot the bill. And if they foot the bill, then nobody else -- not the City, not the state -- should be in a position to deny them it.

Agreed. I think the urban issues of the stadium have been blown waaay out of proportion. It's more like residual distaste of how the Linc got funded and built than considering the project on its own merits.

North Broad has two major hospitals -- Temple/Shriners and Einstein -- along it. A medical-incubation space is an excellent idea for adaptive reuse. Botany 500 is massive -- it could be part of a redevelopment project of that structure (which, I would imagine, would have to include multiple uses to work).

exactly the building that jumped at me as well. I actually remember going there with my father as a kid in the late 70's early 80's when was in buines I think is cloded now

That whole area would be a great focus area and has a ton of already built transit

and yes was mostly agreeing with your earlier point

if anything the New BBall court should be a bigger driver than it is, the football stadium(ia) may be a benefit for Temple but i for them to decide and fund if so IMHO

[DrachenFire]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

W/r/t the stadium:

While I agree about the effects of stadia on urban environments, I will also note that this would be a college stadium on a college campus -- the effect would be less like the Linc and more like these examples:

Exhibit A: Penn's very own Franklin Field. This stadium blends into a quiet corner of campus.

Exhibit B: Nippert Stadium, University of Cincinnati. Here we can see that Nippert is right smack dab in the middle of campus. Some of the school's most important centers, such as "UC Main Street" and the new student recreation center, abut it.

Exhibit C: Tulane's Yulman Stadium. Tulane University is almost the exact same size as Temple University, and Yulman Stadium directly abuts a residential neighborhood. It was also built just last year for $75 million.

Exhibit D: Gerald J. Ford Stadium, SMU. Another example of a college stadium on a tight urban campus, surrounded by a residential neighborhood.

You can, of course, keep going with this. But my point is: College stadia are not necessarily the same animal as pro stadia. College stadia have a ready-made hyper-local fanbase (i.e. the students) which ameliorates much of the need for parking, and can be made to work in significantly more urban situations than pro stadia. That does not, mean, of course, that they get a pass in terms of public money -- they should be built and maintained by the school, using the school's own money -- but colleges are significantly less mobile than professional organizations, usually have better things to do with campus grounds than devote acres of parking, and in general are much better able to absorb the negative externalities of stadia than a pro field plopped in the middle of a neighborhood, due to their dense transient population (i.e. the students)...

As long as Temple does not request public assistance it does not intend to pay back (that would be grants and other direct subsidies; requesting a loan is fine) and agrees to mitigate the stadium's negative externalities inasmuch as is possible, I do not see any strong reason to oppose them attempting to build a stadium. And it's not like we don't already have an example of a college football stadium done well in this town.

A quibble if I may, each of those stadia have been in those locations (or replaced earlier stadia in those locations) for close to 90 years. Those neighborhoods have grown around the stadia that are there, not had a new one plopped down into it (Tulane appears to have had a gap while they played at the Superdome).

I really don't care that Temple wants to build a stadium, I just don't want any tax dollars to pay for it, which apparently they will:

Athletic-department officials say they have three-quarters of the money already raised, including $20 million from the state.

http://footballstadiumdigest.com/2015/10/temple-pitches-new-on-campus-stadium/

If it's so important for students and alumni to experience an on campus football experience, they should pay for all of it themselves. Let the students vote on a fee increase.

I'm also skeptical on the cost. Wikipedia lists the Liacouras Center as costing $73 million ($108 million in 2015 dollars). I really don't believe you can build a 30-40,000 seat football stadium and all the extras Temple is touting to make it "multi-use" for "less" than a basketball arena. I'm also going to assume that Temple will be allowed to use some type of municipal bonds to realize better interest rates. If things don't go as cherry-y as TU officials insist they will, who will make up any shortfall?

Here would be my proposal: the football program is collateral. In exchange for getting lower rate muni bonds, if revenues don't pan out to pay them off, Temple shutters the football program and uses the saved money to pay off the debt. If this is such a (pardon the wrong sport pun) slam dunk, there should be no objections. I'm not going to hold my breath.

Edit: This is what should happen: http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/blogs/owlsinq&id=361295291 It works for Pitt and the Steelers and would give the Owls plenty of room to grow. Use the money currently pledged to a new stadium to continue making practice facility, coach pay, buy home games, etc. improvements.

[summersm343]

Here's an Updated Look at Subaru's $118M Campus in Camden

Subaru's move to Camden officially began today with the groundbreaking of its $118 million corporate headquarters. The new 250,000-square-foot facility will sit adjacent to the Campbell Soup Company's world headquarters and be the first in Knights Crossing, an urban town center developed by Brandywine Realty Trust. Subaru's future home will bring 600 employees from its four sites in Cherry Hill onto one campus.

Construction of the campus is scheduled to be completed in 2017.

http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2015/12/09/subaru-camden-campus-renderings-groundbreaking.php

More from the Philadelphia Business Journal

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...d-breaking-subaru-camden-new-jersey.html

And more from PhillyMag

http://www.phillymag.com/property/2015/12/09/subaru-camden-headquarters-rendering/

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by DrachenFire

A quibble if I may, each of those stadia have been in those locations (or replaced earlier stadia in those locations) for close to 90 years. Those neighborhoods have grown around the stadia that are there, not had a new one plopped down into it (Tulane appears to have had a gap while they played at the Superdome).

Eh I don't think that's all that important. Remember, for forty years (when they were a national power) SMU made the Cotton Bowl its home. That the current stadium happens to sit on the site of the previous stadium, like Yulman Field happens to sit close to the site of the old Tulane Stadium, is pure coincidence. It would be akin to Temple proposing a new stadium on the old Baker Bowl site ... only a few blocks up the street.

I really don't care that Temple wants to build a stadium, I just don't want any tax dollars to pay for it, which apparently they will:

http://footballstadiumdigest.com/2015/10/temple-pitches-new-on-campus-stadium/

If it's so important for students and alumni to experience an on campus football experience, they should pay for all of it themselves. Let the students vote on a fee increase.

I agree on that. But, as I said before, I don't have problems with public bonds and loans -- money that must be repaid to the issuing entity. Free public moneys, such as block grants, for this project would become a problem. Essentially, Temple has to use its own lines of credit and fundraising capabilities for this project, but should not ask for direct largesse.

I'm also skeptical on the cost. Wikipedia lists the Liacouras Center as costing $73 million ($108 million in 2015 dollars). I really don't believe you can build a 30-40,000 seat football stadium and all the extras Temple is touting to make it "multi-use" for "less" than a basketball arena. I'm also going to assume that Temple will be allowed to use some type of municipal bonds to realize better interest rates. If things don't go as cherry-y as TU officials insist they will, who will make up any shortfall?

Definitely an issue.

Here would be my proposal: the football program is collateral. In exchange for getting lower rate muni bonds, if revenues don't pan out to pay them off, Temple shutters the football program and uses the saved money to pay off the debt. If this is such a (pardon the wrong sport pun) slam dunk, there should be no objections. I'm not going to hold my breath.

On one hand, this is not a bad idea. Temple is clearly heavily investing in its football program, perhaps for the first time ever, and collateralizing it adds a major financial incentive to make it pay off.

On the other hand ... you have the complex politics of conference membership to worry about. Most FBS conference bylaws require that full members field football and basketball teams; if its football program were forced to shut down, Temple's AAC (or future conference) membership would be in jeopardy. To say this would a tremendous headache would be a bit of an understatement.

Edit: This is what should happen: http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/blogs/owlsinq&id=361295291 It works for Pitt and the Steelers and would give the Owls plenty of room to grow. Use the money currently pledged to a new stadium to continue making practice facility, coach pay, buy home games, etc. improvements.

I'm not too sure. There are grumblings among Pitt's student body they're dissatisfied with the current arrangement there. USF (currently share Raymond James with the Bucs) is rumored to be pursuing an on-campus stadium. Miami shares the Dolphins' stadium, but it doesn't seem to fit the program well at all. Georgia State shares the Falcons' stadium, and if anything, the fit's worse.

IMO the optimal solution is Cincinnati's: use their on-campus stadium for most home games, while renting the Linc for those one or two Really Big Games against Power 5 opponents. It might not be a coincidence that the Bearcats and Bengals have the best college-pro working relationship out there.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

That's kind of what I'm saying too: If Temple wants to build it, then they must foot the bill. And if they foot the bill, then nobody else -- not the City, not the state -- should be in a position to deny them it.

The one complicating factor here is that part of the reason Lincoln Financial Field received some of the funding it did was because it was expected that Temple would be playing there. So even if they don't take public money to build their new stadium, simply leaving Lincoln Financial Field would still be almost like they're throwing away tax dollars we previously gave them.

Overall I just don't understand the need. Lincoln Financial Field is a world class venue just a subway ride away.

There's only one way I'm on board for a Temple Stadium. If they hire Mappy as the planner and build his stadium/entertainment complex in Fishtown on the Delaware River connected to Temple's Campus by a new light rail line running down Cecil B. Moore/ Columbia. Now that's an idea!

[Philly-Drew]

Update on the Philadelphia land bank:
http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/news/politics&id=361342141

[McBane]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Here's an Updated Look at Subaru's $118M Campus in Camden

Ehh, isn't there a rule against posting this kind of suburban crap?

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by McBane

Ehh, isn't there a rule against posting this kind of suburban crap?

Since it's in Camden, I posted it anyways.

[summersm343]

MakeOffices, a Co-working firm grabs big lease at Seven Penn Center

A Washington, D.C., co-working company has secured a 56,776-square-foot lease at Seven Penn Center and, once open, will become the largest co-working space in Center City to date, according to multiple sources familiar with the deal.

MakeOffices, which changed its name from UberOffices last month to quell the confusion brought on by the car sharing service, signed a lease on four floors at 1635 Market St. and will move in sometime in the third quarter of 2016.

WeWork signed earlier this year to occupy 30,000 square feet at the Piazza in Northern Liberties and has grabbed another roughly 18,000 square feet in space above the Cheesecake Factory at 15th and Walnut streets.

MakeOffices has also reportedly signed a deal to lease about 24,000 square feet at Commerce Square that is set to open sometime early next year.

Its deal at Seven Penn is a big one for the office building. When Nightengale Properties of New York bought the 19-story, 286,574-square-foot property a year ago, it was 44 percent vacant. The firm paid just $39 million for the property, which was in need of a makeover inside and out.

The new owner's goal was to invest $5 million making a series of upgrades to the building’s façade, main lobby, elevators and other areas in attempt to make it more attractive to tenants and lease up the vacant space. So far, that strategy appears to be working.

In addition to MakeOffices, Primrose School, a day care center, leased 2,542 square feet of retail space that had been occupied by Bassett’s Original Turkey and another 13,269 square feet on the second floor. The center will have its own private entrance and separate elevator. Earlier in the year, Sellers Dorsey, a consulting firm, took 5,200 square feet.

The leasing activity has meant that the building is now 85 percent occupied.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...ter-makeoffices-coworking-lease-cre.html

[summersm343]

631 North Broad redevelopment - 7 floors





http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/west-poplar/renderings-for-north-broad-renovation

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Since it's in Camden, I posted it anyways.

Yeah, it's ostensibly "urban" just by virtue of location. Poor Admiral Wilson seems destined never to get anything worthy of his name on that eponymous drag strip. At least the neighbors are of a better sort nowadays.

[AbortedWalrus]

Originally Posted by summersm343

631 North Broad redevelopment - 7 floors

snip
http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/west-poplar/renderings-for-north-broad-renovation

It's ugly, but the density is fantastic.

[mmikeyphilly]

Below is the article about the project. ( I highlighted what made me chuckle. Really? With that huge Billboard, well...that should offer some great views!)

Here is the article:

The addition has many positive qualities, in our estimation. Most prominently, it has a warehouse look to it, emulating many other buildings nearby on North Broad Street. We also appreciate that it will be set back from the existing building, allowing the older facade room to breathe. And man, those windows look huge- the views are gonna be great. Finally, the new storefront windows will allow whatever retail tenant moves in to have a great street presence.

The project only has one refusal, and it's for parking. One would hope that the ZBA will look at the plan, which involves preserving an old building, and allow the developers to do what they're looking to do. We fear that if parking were shoehorned into this property it would mean the demolition of the old building and the construction of something much less architecturally satisfying. Let's just keep our fingers crossed that this thing happens as presented in the renderings above and the ever-present parking discussion doesn't derail what would be a positive addition to North Broad Street.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

It's ugly, but the density is fantastic.

I don't think it's ugly at all, at least with respect to the more detailed rendering (from the perspective of diagonally across the street). The one that shows the view from the north (and the huge billboard) lacks the detail of the other rendering.

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

It's ugly, but the density is fantastic.

Ugly? How is that. Looks awesome. Beautiful restoration plus loft-style design...

[UrbanRevival]

Re: 631 N. Broad--I definitely don't get any negativity about the design. The fact that this is a very thoughtful re-use of an existing historic structure and adds a new, hip loft aesthetic on a smaller scale project on a still pretty desolate stretch of Broad Street absolutely sets the bar pretty high for new development in that area. We should all hope this is a harbinger of things to come.

[hammersklavier]

W/r/t 631 N Broad (damn, I didn't get that scoop, but I've got something much better coming your way) there's hardly anyone living nearby, so it should have no problem getting the variance.

That said, this wouldn't be Philadelphia without somebody crawling out of the woodwork, filing a legal petition, and gumming up the development works...

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

W/r/t 631 N Broad (damn, I didn't get that scoop, but I've got something much better coming your way) there's hardly anyone living nearby, so it should have no problem getting the variance.

That said, this wouldn't be Philadelphia without somebody crawling out of the woodwork, filing a legal petition, and gumming up the development works...

Tantalizing!