Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[esquire]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Are they bringing these banners too?

I doubt the Argos will need them anymore, but maybe they can sell a few to TFC?



BTW how is the timing with this project going to work? Is the assumption that the stadium will be playable for the football preseason in June?

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Man, I can't wait till Argos season starts at BMO, we'll see if all this trash talking is backed up with real support or just bluster.

Don't worry ... we've had many years of practice at excuse-making. I'll be there, at least, which I hardly ever was at SkyDome or CNE Stadium even.

I'm not getting how a supposedly Torontonian team isn't blue. Where'd the red come from?

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

I doubt the Argos will need them anymore, but maybe they can sell a few to TFC?

Tee hee!

[HomerSPC]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I'm not getting how a supposedly Torontonian team isn't blue. Where'd the red come from?

"Canada's team".

TFC was first in MLS, and is also the home stadium for the Men's National Team.

[Oilkountry]

it's not mean, it's insecurity. Typical TFC/MLS fan behavior. The realization that BMO will be known as the Argos Stadium is slowly killing them. They can say what they want about the Argos attendance (TFC wasn't a big draw last season either) Fact is outside of BMO field on game days theirs not alot of TFC fans in Tornoto, MLS is a very weak product in Canada in comparison to the CFL. TV ratings will show that. The CFL typically has a lot of people in the stands but also a big TV market in comparison. Honestly we don't need to react to it. CFL fans have nothing to prove. MLS has it's bubble that's really about it. The CFL is a part of Canadian culture the MLS is a fad (one that seems to be losing it's popularity) I will make a real money bet with anyone right now that the Argos will sell out every game next season and TFC fans will be blaming it on the "new car smell" of BMO. If I lived in Ottawa and the REDBLACKS were re introduced to the league in the old frank claire stadium I wouldn't even see them play. TD place is a game changer I would be a STH. THF did the same for the Ticats and BMO will have the same affect for the Argos (eastern CFL trend?) The Noise that place is gonna produce will be addicting to Argos fans alot like IGF in a way that canopy will do a lot.

[SHOFEAR]

/\ Completely agree.

I

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

it's not mean, it's insecurity. Typical TFC/MLS fan behavior. The realization that BMO will be known as the Argos Stadium is slowly killing them. They can say what they want about the Argos attendance (TFC wasn't a big draw last season either) Fact is outside of BMO field on game days, MLS is a very weak product in Canada in comparison to the CFL. TV ratings will show that. The CFL typically has a lot of people in the stands but also a big TV market in comparison. Honestly we don't need to react to it. CFL fans have nothing to prove. MLS has it's bubble that's really about it. The CFL is a part of Canadian culture the MLS is a fad (one that seems to be losing it's popularity) I will make a real money bet with anyone right now that the Argos will sell out every game next season and TFC fans will be blaming it on the "new car smell" of BMO. If I lived in Ottawa and the REDBLACKS were re introduced tot he league in the old frank claire I wouldn't even see them play. TD place is a game changer So is THF and BMO will have the same affect for the Argos. The Noise that place is gonna produce will be addicting to Argos fans

*epic facepalm*

TFC valuation = $175mil and growing (after 8 years of history)
Argos valuation = "...please just take this financial black hole, noone wants 'em...we'll even throw in a Grey Cup!" (despite over a century of history)

TFC attendance grew each of the past 2 years, setting records for team attendance each year.

TFC makes significantly more money than even the highest revenue CFL team lol!

Rogers kicked the Argos out and the fans still gave massive support to the Blue Jays...noone cares about the Argos but the usual prairie crowd (Exhibit A + B above)...

The only way to go is up, you can't fight the future!

[25grapes]

@OilKountry - I agree, the Argos shouldn't have a problem filling the stadium. Before last year Argo's average attendance figures were 23,276 in 2013 and 23,690. The FC drew 23,451 on average this past year. But having a refurbished stadium that people want to go to will only help both teams out. Argo fans that normally wouldn't take in an FC game might because they know that the stadium is a fun place to be at no matter what is going on and vice versa. The crying that most FC fans have been doing should be short lived once they realize the positive impact having the Argo's at BMO will bring.

[25grapes]

TFC makes significantly more money than even the highest revenue CFL team lol!

Toronot FC 2014 Operating Income -7,000,000
Saskatchewan Roughriders 2014 Operating Income 2,200,000 (10.4 in 2013)
Winnipeg Blue Bomber 2014 Operating Income 3,900,000 (9.5 projected 2015)

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

it's not mean, it's insecurity. Typical TFC/MLS fan behavior. The realization that BMO will be known as the Argos Stadium is slowly killing them. They can say what they want about the Argos attendance (TFC wasn't a big draw last season either) Fact is outside of BMO field on game days theirs not alot of TFC fans in Tornoto, MLS is a very weak product in Canada in comparison to the CFL. TV ratings will show that. The CFL typically has a lot of people in the stands but also a big TV market in comparison. Honestly we don't need to react to it. CFL fans have nothing to prove. MLS has it's bubble that's really about it. The CFL is a part of Canadian culture the MLS is a fad (one that seems to be losing it's popularity) I will make a real money bet with anyone right now that the Argos will sell out every game next season and TFC fans will be blaming it on the "new car smell" of BMO. If I lived in Ottawa and the REDBLACKS were re introduced to the league in the old frank claire stadium I wouldn't even see them play. TD place is a game changer I would be a STH. THF did the same for the Ticats and BMO will have the same affect for the Argos (eastern CFL trend?) The Noise that place is gonna produce will be addicting to Argos fans alot like IGF in a way that canopy will do a lot.

This is a good overview of the situation. I guess for a while the MLS hype was pretty strong and maybe TFC fans had ambition of being up there with the Leafs in the Toronto sports hierarchy, when the reality is that they will now be, at best, sharing top billing with the Argos in their own venue. There is unquestionably some resentment there.

FWIW I'm sure that a city of Toronto's size will be able to support its existing teams. A CFL or an MLS team is not such a draw on the sports fan base and corporate community that a city like Toronto couldn't support both.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

TFC makes significantly more money than even the highest revenue CFL team lol!

Well we know you aren't talking about net income because TFC loses money on an annual basis.

So you must mean gross revenue, right?

Toronto FC actual 2014 gross revenue: US$32 million.

Saskatchewan Roughriders actual 2013-14 gross revenue: $68.8 million.

Even adjusting for exchange rates, you are, how do you say it in English, wrong.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

This is a good overview of the situation. I guess for a while the MLS hype was pretty strong and maybe TFC fans had ambition of being up there with the Leafs in the Toronto sports hierarchy, when the reality is that they will now be, at best, sharing top billing with the Argos in their own venue. There is unquestionably some resentment there.

FWIW I'm sure that a city of Toronto's size will be able to support its existing teams. A CFL or an MLS team is not such a draw on the sports fan base and corporate community that a city like Toronto couldn't support both.

This is probably the post I agree with the most.

I don't believe that MLS and TFC are a fad BTW. They'll be around for good and have tremendous potential for growth.

There is room for everyone in the GTA.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by esquire

Well we know you aren't talking about net income because TFC loses money on an annual basis.

So you must mean gross revenue, right?

Toronto FC actual 2014 gross revenue: US$32 million.

Saskatchewan Roughriders actual 2013-14 gross revenue: $68.8 million.

Even adjusting for exchange rates, you are, how do you say it in English, wrong.

Yet, TFC is worth $175 million dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45elllf/5-toronto-fc/

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

*epic facepalm*

TFC valuation = $175mil and growing (after 8 years of history)
Argos valuation = "...please just take this financial black hole, noone wants 'em...we'll even throw in a Grey Cup!" (despite over a century of history)

TFC attendance grew each of the past 2 years, setting records for team attendance each year.

TFC makes significantly more money than even the highest revenue CFL team lol!

Rogers kicked the Argos out and the fans still gave massive support to the Blue Jays...noone cares about the Argos but the usual prairie crowd (Exhibit A + B above)...

The only way to go is up, you can't fight the future!

Again I have nothing to prove to you. Most CFL teams average more fans than MLS teams

Most CFL teams are Non profit community owned and run operations the motivation to make money isn't there like it is with a team run by a marketing giant like MLSE. and to further that I'm okay with the low ticket prices of the CFL if you take pride in paying stupid high ticket prices to get Defoe and bradley to come play there for a few months. that's your choice. I'll enjoy my $40 entertainment with a few cold beers included

The NHL,MLB,NBA also make more money than the cfl...because they play more games than the CFL just like the MLS simple economics

You can't argue with TV rating's, The CFL is a domestic Football league TFC is a small part of an "international" league. Basically it's riding the coattails of an american made league. More fans are watching the CFL at home then they are MLS and aside from this season, attendance figures has been close and in the past CFL has blown them out of the water IN EVERY MARKET that has both leagues. I'm just curious how you're going to argue with the success of the Argos next season. So far the new ownership group is doing a phenomenal job with securing a grey cup right away to grow the brand of both the CFL and more importantly the Argos. basically the real question will be how will the Argos do with the same marketing attention and home TFC gets. I'll never understand the hostility between domestic teams in Toronto.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by esquire

Well we know you aren't talking about net income because TFC loses money on an annual basis.

So you must mean gross revenue, right?

Toronto FC actual 2014 gross revenue: US$32 million.

Saskatchewan Roughriders actual 2013-14 gross revenue: $68.8 million.

Even adjusting for exchange rates, you are, how do you say it in English, wrong.

The Roughriders are government supported, welfare cases don't count...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Yet, TFC is worth $175 million dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45elllf/5-toronto-fc/

TFC has over the course of its existence not really been a great attendance draw especially in relation to the hype machine behind it, it hasn't made much if any money and TV ratings are negligible. But if franchise valuation is the number that you want to hang your hat on, then be my guest

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by esquire

Well we know you aren't talking about net income because TFC loses money on an annual basis.

So you must mean gross revenue, right?

Toronto FC actual 2014 gross revenue: US$32 million.

Saskatchewan Roughriders actual 2013-14 gross revenue: $68.8 million.

Even adjusting for exchange rates, you are, how do you say it in English, wrong.

As has been proven countless times on here, TFC makes a shit ton of money, losses are only projected if we amortize the cost of the stadium expansions and new facilities construction in the short term. If we amortize it over the longterm or remove the stadium facility construction costs from the equation (you know the one that the Argos will be mooching off of), TFC is still handily profitable even with their ambitious investments on players and growth.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

The Roughriders are government supported, welfare cases don't count...

What government support did the Roughriders get exactly?

Believe me, I hate the Roughriders too, but unlike Toronto FC they are actually paying for the lion's share of their stadium. Unlike a certain welfare case soccer team in Toronto

[esquire]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

As has been proven countless times on here, TFC makes a shit ton of money, losses are only projected if we amortize the cost of the stadium expansions and new facilities construction in the short term. If we amortize it over the longterm or remove the stadium facility construction costs from the equation (you know the one that the Argos will be mooching off of), TFC is still handily profitable even with their ambitious investments on players and growth.

So their gross revenues that put them behind CFL teams are actually a result of amortizing stadium expansion and building facilities?

LOL

I admire your pluck mistercorporate

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

The Roughriders are government supported, welfare cases don't count...

HAHAHAHAHA They make money!! how is that welfare!! if anything they do nothing but contribute to the community!!

But I guess you're right in a way that they are and will be playing in a publicly funded stadium...oh wait..

If you think the Argos won't be in the black come next season you're on crack. Remember who owns them now yeah?