Salt Lake International Airport Development Thread

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by San Diego-Honolulu

Some good news for SLC. Air Canada will resume nonstop Salt Lake City to Toronto flights with daily service beginning May 27, 2016 using an E90 aircraft.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=950

It's good to see an international airline back in SLC. Other airports out west such as SJC, PDX, SEA, have seen a major rise in international carriers serving their airports while SLC has only seen international flights added by Delta. Hopefully this is the beginning of other international airlines looking to serve SLC such as WestJet, Volaris, Icelandair, Aeromexico, Condor, and Lufthansa.

I believe you men E190, not E90. There is no such thing. For those of you who don't know, it is the equivalent of a 737, except made by the Brazilians.

I fully agree to what you said. SLC needs international carriers. I think with the opening of the new airport we will see at least one European Carrier appear (British Airways, Condor, Lufthansa, maybe even KLM or Air France). The chance of Iceland Air isn't likely in my opinion, seeing that they already have pretty saturated service in the US. Also, I am betting on a Mexican Carrier reappearing, seeing that they have been here in the past, and SLC has multiple daily flights to mexico through Delta. I have no doubt about that. As far as Asian carriers go, I sincerely hope to land one, two, maybe even three. China is greatly expanding service to the US, and I think it is highly probable that we could land a flight to shanghai, beijing, shenzhen, or Hong Kong. China is one of the fastest growing markets in the world, and it is only a matter of time before it is standard for every major Us city to have a "Chinese Flight," just like how most cities have a "European Flight". Korean, Hainan, and All-Nippon would be nice, but I don't think those will happen any time soon. If Denver hasn't gotten it yet, SLC probably won't.

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by Wasatch Wasteland

I believe you men E190, not E90. There is no such thing. For those of you who don't know, it is the equivalent of a 737, except made by the Brazilians.

E90 is a common abbreviation for the E190. It competes with a 737, but they are still much smaller (100 passengers or so on the E90).

Good to see Air Canada back in the market.

I still think Condor would be a good bet for a foreign bird coming to SLC. They seem to love mid size markets.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by justiny

Salt Lake City International Airport has two runways both over 12,000 feet. Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (the busiest in the world) has only one runway over 10,000 feet in length.

I don't know why it's so shocking for some to realize that SLC is capable of landing an Airbus A380, as SLC is a joint military-civilian international airport that routinely rotates Lockheed C-5 Galaxy military cargo jets, which are amongst the largest aircraft in the world.

It is true that SLC is lacking some airport operations (more specifically, a jet bridge) that do not accommodate an A380 comfortably, however the length of the runways can accept and deploy any aircraft, regardless of size, so long as the environmental factors are favorable.

Elko Regional Airport in Nevada hosted Air Force One (a Boeing 747-200B series aircraft) in 2006. That runway is listed at only 7,200 feet in length.

Denver obviously has the same altitude issues as SLC and what I've always heard was it's the take off, not the landing, that requires the extra runway length, particularly during the summer and with a fully loaded jumbo aircraft. DIA has five 12,000-foot runways and one 16,000-foot runway. It's my understanding that the 16,000-foot runway is DIA's only runway that is capable of launching any aircraft of any size, fully loaded for a flight of any length, in any environmental condition.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Denver obviously has the same altitude issues as SLC and what I've always heard was it's the take off, not the landing, that requires the extra runway length, particularly during the summer and with a fully loaded jumbo aircraft. DIA has five 12,000-foot runways and one 16,000-foot runway. It's my understanding that the 16,000-foot runway is DIA's only runway that is capable of launching any aircraft of any size, fully loaded for a flight of any length, in any environmental condition.

That makes sense, as the air in Denver and SLC is thinner than other major airports and it would take longer for the aircraft to get the required lift from that air. Thanks for bringing that up.

[i-215]

If we expanded the west runway to be 16,000 feet would it attract more international flights? Looks like it is 12,000 feet now.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Delta announced daily service to toronto, starting the day before Air Canada begins theirs.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/11/29/dl-slcyyz-may16/

On a side note, the airport FINALLY updated their website. It looks great.

[seventwenty]

Originally Posted by i-215

If we expanded the west runway to be 16,000 feet would it attract more international flights? Looks like it is 12,000 feet now.

I don't see why you all need a 16,000' runway. You need a runway that long when you're air density is low, which occurs when you're higher up. You're around 4,227' feet above sea level, 1,200' below DEN. And you can get 767s and 330s to AMS, LHR and CDG. You used to have the NRT flight, too. Plus flights to HNL. Maybe you all could use a 14,000' runway, but I'm not an engineer. Also consider one thing: Just because you make a runway 16,000' long doesn't mean planes can use it all; if a plane's tires are going to burst from rolling resistance and the resulting heat (which is why a 17,000' runway would be useless at DEN), then who cares?

What limits you is population size. I did this a few months ago when we talked about DEN traffic, so I'll adapt that data for SLC.

A few years ago, Brookings researched the US airline gateways to the world, and it did so for the 200 largest US markets. It's the most recent data I have, and it's already 4 years old. Make of that what you will.

I used that data to make some tables for Denver, and now Salt Lake City, cutting the data off at any destination under 10,000 passengers a year.

Some differences in the DEN-SLC comparison. These differences aren't designed to make a DvS debate, but they highlight the realities of the airline industry. First, I made differences between our "Big 3" hub airlines: United and Delta, respectively. Second, while I used the smallest properly long haul jet that both United and Delta both use, coincidentally the 767-300 for both airlines, each airline configures their jets differently. The changes in calculation reflect that difference. Specifically, Delta has more seats on their 763s. I ignored using other jets, because the other data will be illuminating to the SLC market.

So TL;DR: I made some tables to show the international markets of DEN and SLC, but it's rudimentary.

EDIT: So in 2011, SLC-AMS was under 10,000 pax/yr. I added that one on, as it is a SkyTeam hub to hub. It also demonstrates how many people on that flight are connecting.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Thank you for that "Illuminating" post.

BTW air is still pretty thin at 4000 ft. vs 5000 ft.

[San Diego-Honolulu]

KLM will be starting twice weekly flights between Amsterdam and SLC. The flight will then go up to three weekly flights. This is on top of Delta's nonstop flight already between the two cities. Also next summer Delta will be flying nonstop to Paris-CDG and London-Heathrow. So up to four daily departures to Europe from SLC on peak days. Not bad SLC! It's good to see expanded international service out of SLC, especially with these recent announcements on international airlines Air Canada and KLM.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/12/15/kl-slc-may16/

Also worth noting, Delta announced nonstop service from SLC to Toronto just days after Air Canada did. Delta's flight will begin one day earlier as well.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Interesting... Four daily flights to Europe? That is a lot.

Another tid bit of info, KLM only served 7 US markets. BIG ones. SanFran, LA, Houston, Dallas, Chicago, Atlanta, and NYC. Why enter SLC? A small market with saturated European service... what are the reasons behind this?

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Wasatch Wasteland

Interesting... Four daily flights to Europe? That is a lot.

Another tid bit of info, KLM only served 7 US markets. BIG ones. SanFran, LA, Houston, Dallas, Chicago, Atlanta, and NYC. Why enter SLC? A small market with saturated European service... what are the reasons behind this?

My goodness, even a consummate Wasatch Front optimist like myself is taken back by all this activity. Wasatch, I would be anxious to hear yours and Honolulu's thoughts on all of these foothold advances being made by major markets into the SLC CSA. Feels like we're on the threshold of some pretty amazing growth in international trade/business. It would seem like the power brokers are betting on SLC's current and continued boom acceleration, and want to make sure they have a firm claim staked out in the modern day gold rush to the Wasatch.

[wrendog]

Wow. First overseas metal in SLC. Exciting times indeed.

KLM has been in smaller markets in the US before (Memphis, Anchorage, Baltimore) and they haven't succeeded. Hope it works for SLC!

[San Diego-Honolulu]

Originally Posted by delts145

My goodness, even a consummate Wasatch Front optimist like myself is taken back by all this activity. Wasatch, I would be anxious to hear yours and Honolulu's thoughts on all of these foothold advances being made by major markets into the SLC CSA.

I think the major reasons and credit for this additional KLM flight is first, the strength of the joint venture between Delta and Air France-KLM. Second, the Delta nonstop to AMS from SLC that began last summer has been very successful and obviously the two companies saw the need to add additional flights on peak travel days. Also this helps spread the KLM brand in the western/rocky mountain region of the country. As mentioned already, KLM only serves in the U.S., LAX, SFO, O'Hare, JFK, Houston, Atlanta, and Dulles. When KLM served Baltimore, Anchorage, and Memphis, it was not the same KLM that is around today. The KLM now is all around a much stronger airline and now also has the strong partnership with Delta. The flight to SLC will be a great addition to KLM's network and will have great success I believe.

Right now at SLC airport there are only three gates (D2, D4, and D6) that can handle international flights. When the current Delta Amsterdam and Paris flights arrive (they arrive and depart at similar times) they can only use gates D2 and D6 and not use D4 because of the large size of the aircraft and how close together the gates are. With the added KLM flight, this adds another flight that overlaps the other two European flights. I would think that they would have to convert gate D8 into an international gate to accommodate this new KLM flight and also the new London flight that begins next summer. The London's flight times will not overlap with the two Amsterdam flights and the Paris flight, but if there is a delay of one of the other European flights, the gate situation can get tricky because the London's flight time does overlap with international arrivals also using the international gates and the FIS facility coming in from Mexico City, Cancun, Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, and Los Cabos. Here is a link in the SL Tribune about the new KLM flight.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/3311114-155/klm-royal-dutch-airlines-to-start

Again, this is awesome news for Salt Lake City. I remember when the airport and city folks were trying hard to land just one European flight and finally getting the Paris flight in 2008. Fast forward eight years and now SLC will have 4 daily nonstop flights to Europe depending on the day of the week in summer 2016. So cool!

Also one more thing worth noting. All of the new flights added by Alaska Airlines at the SLC airport have been the driving force for the high rise in passengers traveling in/out of SLC. Alaska Airlines has said they have been very happy with their SLC flights. Alaska currently flies from SLC to Portland, Seattle, Boise, San Jose, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego.

[orlandopilot]

Congrats to SLC! Over 22 million passengers will have been through SLC during 2015. By the time the new terminal is complete in 2020 they will be close to 23 million. While they are building the new airport they just need to go ahead and build the parallel north concourse. It would be folly to renovate B,C and D concourse when it is apparent that the numbers of passengers will require more gates. With the rising international air service into SLC, there are going to be bigger planes that need more gate space. With Lufthansa most likely adding Frankfurt or Munich in 2016, space is going to be a premium. The "Mighty Five-Piano Guy" ads that have been running here in Florida have really been a boon for Utah tourism. Lots of people around here are heading to Utah for the parks and for the skiing. Congratulations to SLC and Utah.

[delts145]

Thanks guys for the engaging and informative points. Here's an interesting little on topic article in the L.A. Times from this morning regarding Americas ten most well liked airports.

...Most travelers don't have a choice of which airport to fly in or out of because there may be only one option. Still, here are the top 10 large airports that get it right.

Full Article : http://www.latimes.com/travel/california/la-trb-airports-jd-powers-20151215-story.html

1. Portland

2. Tampa, Fla. (TPA)

3. Las Vegas (LAS)

4. Orlando (MCO)

5. Salt Lake City (SLC)

6. Denver (DEN)

7. San Diego (SAN)

8. Atlanta (ATL)

9. Detroit (DTW)

10. Phoenix (PHX)

.

[Future Mayor]

Great news for our airport and the people of Utah that it serves. Thank you for in the input OrlandoPilot, it's nice to get an outside perspective that's not here to bash and start a us vs them debate.

It will for sure be interesting to see how they actually end up proceeding with the new terminal and if they will push ahead the north concourse schedule due to demand.

I wonder if SLC were to get the 2026 games if that too would push forward the North Concourse construction, rather than the B, C, and D renovations?

[orlandopilot]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Great news for our airport and the people of Utah that it serves. Thank you for in the input OrlandoPilot, it's nice to get an outside perspective that's not here to bash and start a us vs them debate.

It will for sure be interesting to see how they actually end up proceeding with the new terminal and if they will push ahead the north concourse schedule due to demand.

I wonder if SLC were to get the 2026 games if that too would push forward the North Concourse construction, rather than the B, C, and D renovations?

Salt Lake would be ready to host the games again. Most of the infrastructure is already in place. Maybe a few of the venues would need a refresher but the costs would not be too much. Whether SLC hold the games again or not, the number of airport passengers is going to be growing to the point that the new concourse is going to be needed right about the time that phase 1 construction is complete. The new airport is going to be built to welcome 23 million passengers. By the time the new terminal is done in 2020, SLC will already be at that point. While the construction is going on and all the equipment and workers are at the airport, it would be cheaper and smarter to build the north concourse and get it done. Utah is a natural advertisement for itself. I spend lots of time in Park City, Kamas and Oakley area during the summer and there are tons of European tourists around. I can only imagine that European skiers would and do love your Utah powder.

[San Diego-Honolulu]

Originally Posted by orlandopilot

Congrats to SLC! Over 22 million passengers will have been through SLC during 2015. By the time the new terminal is complete in 2020 they will be close to 23 million. While they are building the new airport they just need to go ahead and build the parallel north concourse. It would be folly to renovate B,C and D concourse when it is apparent that the numbers of passengers will require more gates. With the rising international air service into SLC, there are going to be bigger planes that need more gate space. With Lufthansa most likely adding Frankfurt or Munich in 2016, space is going to be a premium. The "Mighty Five-Piano Guy" ads that have been running here in Florida have really been a boon for Utah tourism. Lots of people around here are heading to Utah for the parks and for the skiing. Congratulations to SLC and Utah.

I agree. Also, the current C and D concourses cause a bottle neck problem for planes coming in and out between the two concourses. I'm not sure why they would want to keep them especially when they said they want to make aircraft ground traffic run a lot more smooth. As of right now only one plane can be between the two concourses at a time. I think they should go ahead with plans and build the north satellite concourse as well.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/aviation/sky-talk-blog/article50079765.html

COINCIDENCE? I think not.

[TheWire]

I just found this line in KLM's press release announcing the flights in its description of SLC "Salt Lake City is also the industrial banking capital of the United States." Ok. Sure.