DENVER | Main Development Thread #6 - Page 331

enjo13 · #**6601** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 2:13 PM**

On 162: is that a freaking blank wall along Welton? No retail? Seriously?

Cirrus · #**6602** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 10:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcp

Toronto is the best at this...DC does it quite well too.

As usual, we do something pretty well but not as well as Toronto. Typical. But yeah, that's pretty standard here:

Stonemans_rowJ · #**6603** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 11:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Well any site can reasonably handle 1,000 bicycle spaces, so we should should be fine. I'm told nobody will be driving in five years or so, once we build a few more bike lanes. So the time should be right to start entitlements on a parking-free supertall.

Good thing we are doubling down on single occupancy car commuting by rebuilding I-70.

Denver Dweller · #**6604** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 1:23 AM**

http://www.denverrealestatewatch.com/201...-historic-designation-for-lambourn-home/

DenverInfill · #**6605** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 2:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcp

not sure it really needs retail there (plenty on the mall..why compete?)

but i'm with you in that it needs transparency.

It's hard to say from the rendering exactly what the Welton side ground-floor facade material or transparency is. However, it's clearly the main entrance location for vehicles and is essentially the "service" side of the project.

Looking at the four sides, the project doesn't really have a 16th Street side except through the Sage and McClintock buildings which are clearly retail-oriented uses.

The California Street side has the Light Rail tracks running along it which makes any curb-cuts probably a no-go, with the main pedestrian hotel entry and some retail on that side.

On 15th, the short-side of the block, is the lobby for the office tower, maybe some retail, and probably highly transparent.

Finally, that leaves Welton, which looks like it will have the garage entry, porte cochere, and "back of house" side. This is also how the Hyatt is set up. So in a way it makes sense to write off the Welton side from being particularly pedestrian-oriented since it's not already with the Hyatt the next block over. That puts the pedestrian focus on the California and 15th Street sides where the transit and strong pedestrian connection to the Convention Center are anyway--plus the Mall side of course.

wong21fr · #**6606** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 2:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

Good thing we are doubling down on single occupancy car commuting by rebuilding I-70.

Didn't know that rebuilding antiquated infrastructure using novel financing (for the US) methods was doubling down. Seems like it maintains the status quo.

Cirrus · #**6607** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 3:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcp

cirrus...DC is awesome. but whew..that 4th example is BUTT ugyly

Spanish Embassy. Blame Spain.

The Dirt · #**6608** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 7:13 AM**

God, I love DC style density. Even your suburbs have it!

TakeFive · #**6609** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 3:59 PM**

Can there not be a similar approach taken with Tavern Uptown?

Midwest out West · #**6610** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 4:42 PM**

I have a feeling this block could be primed for one of those Toronto/DC style integrations:

Curtis Example

Also, curious if anyone has any update on the Brighton street improvements? I've been anticipating an update over at Denver Urbanism Blog but was interested if anyone had any info.

Thanks!

DenverInfill · #**6611** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 5:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midwest out West

I have a feeling this block could be primed for one of those Toronto/DC style integrations:

Curtis Example

Also, curious if anyone has any update on the Brighton street improvements? I've been anticipating an update over at Denver Urbanism Blog but was interested if anyone had any info.

Thanks!

The city is planning on starting construction in 2016, and is currently finalizing design. I'm waiting to do a DenverUrbanism post when the final design is available. Meanwhile, you can check the city's page for more info:

http://www.denvergov.org/content/denverg...rojects/brighton-boulevard-corridor.html

TakeFive · #**6612** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 5:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

The city is planning on starting construction in 2016, and is currently finalizing design. I'm waiting to do a DenverUrbanism post when the final design is available. Meanwhile, you can check the city's page for more info:

http://www.denvergov.org/content/denverg...rojects/brighton-boulevard-corridor.html

That's impressive. Seriously, so much better than the "get by" approach of earlier decades.

awholeparade · #**6613** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakeFive

That's impressive. Seriously, so much better than the "get by" approach of earlier decades.

This was not an easy thing to accomplish. The city wanted to basically redo Federal Blvd on Brighton Blvd.

corey · #**6614** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 9:45 PM**

Any recent news about the plan to build a hotel on top of the Denver Tramway building (Spaghetti Factory)? The last renderings I've seen were so bad they should just leave the historic building alone. The addition on top of the old bank on 17th St. turned out terrible. It looks like the cheapest possible construction they could get by with. It would have been sooooo much better if they at least used a stone veneer (maybe something darker to contrast with the marble) to tie it in with the rest of the building in stead of EIFS panels. I understand the interior is nice though.

denconyny · #**6615** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 11:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

That's funny, Toronto is exactly what I was thinking when I posted that initially. That's exactly the kind of thing I would like an example of in Denver. I think once the city does that well once, they'll never allow a historic building to be wholesale demolished again.

Imagine if 1144 15th was being built with the Central Bank building facade built into the corner at 15th and Arapahoe. That would be super sexy. And look a lot like that first example above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirrus

As usual, we do something pretty well but not as well as Toronto. Typical. But yeah, that's pretty standard here:

This project below has been listed on the DENVER DEVELOPMENT SERVICES PROJECT REPORT for just about ever.......

Kistler Building 2014D00214 Mixed-Use Mixed-Use D-C Steve Oliver

with very little detail and almost no movement otherwise for at least the last couple of years or so (2014) but one day, maybe something fantastic (like the new tallest in Denver?) will be on the site where the Kistler Building now is? Fits all the historic qualifications, etc. and something pretty big may have to go there to make all of the economics worthwhile.......

http://www.historicdenver.org/programs/kistler-building/

rds70 · #**6616** Posted **Dec 4, 2015, 1:53 PM**

Here is the latest perspective rendering of the 1601 Market project. It will certainly make that area feel pretty dense:

Stonemans_rowJ · #**6617** Posted **Dec 4, 2015, 2:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds70

Here is the latest perspective rendering of the 1601 Market project. It will certainly make that area feel pretty dense:

Wow! Amazing... Especially with that other small, surface parking lot set to get redeveloped as well.

This is the best way to improve the transit mall. Fill in the missing teeth. Add more retail space. Everything else will follow...

Midwest out West · #**6618** Posted **Dec 4, 2015, 2:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

Wow! Amazing... Especially with that other small, surface parking lot set to get redeveloped as well.

This is the best way to improve the transit mall. Fill in the missing teeth. Add more retail space. Everything else will follow...

I agree, love the variety in storefront deisgn in the façade along Market, will be a great bridge between 17th and 16th streets. Hopefully they can incorporate some kind of lunch market or something in the open outdoor spaces contained within the project for the CBD lunch crowd nearby.

Goat12 · #**6619** Posted **Dec 4, 2015, 3:19 PM**

Is the 17th Street side of this project limited to five stories? If not, seems like a wasted opportunity to add at least a little height on a street where it's absolutely contextual.

Stonemans_rowJ · #**6620** Posted **Dec 4, 2015, 4:32 PM**

Some interesting further reading on housing prices:

I was watching 9news the other night and another story about how expensive rents are. The local media jumps all over these stories because it really fires people up and "sells." Their data is from Zumper.

With Zumper, Zillow, etc. the data tends to be all over the place and can be very inaccurate. But its easy for news outlets to just take the easy headline. Like this story in the Denver Post, condo prices up nearly 20% in 2015. If that headline doesn't grab attention, I don't know what does. The reality is the only new condos that closed this year were in Cherry Creek at 150 Columbine. So of course those sales are going to skew the data. "Same store" sales would be nowhere close to 20% appreciation.

Great post about discerning the data here (from City Observatory)

And finally, Ken's post from Denver Infill on migration to Denver is wonderful. Long term demand looks strong.

However, best analysis of current apartment and rental trends here:

great potential for softening apartment market.
1-3 month concessions currently on luxury units
vacancy estimated to be in the 7-8% range

amount of new apartment construction coming onto the market may cause conditions to weaken during the fourth quarter of 2015 and into 2016. In conjunction with potential oversupply is a decline in the rate of growth in employment in metro Denver, creating less demand for apartments. Over the long term Denver remains an attractive market for apartment investment but it is important to be cautious about what market conditions may entail in 2016.