YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[LeftCoaster]

20 is nearly guaranteed. It would take a drop of over 5% in Nov and Dec pax to not hit 20 million. 20.3 and change is around where we will end up.

At this point 21 million is more or less impossible. It would take growth of 28.8% in Nov and Dec to hit 21... so ya that's not going to happen.

Either way really pleased with 6.0% growth, especially when you take out the laggard domestic numbers, which puts growth at 9.5%.

Also I wonder what the 20% growth in misc is. Is that sun flying?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

20 is nearly guaranteed. It would take a drop of over 5% in Nov and Dec pax to not hit 20 million. 20.3 and change is around where we will end up. .................
At this point 21 million is more or less impossible. It would take growth of 28.8% in Nov and Dec to hit 21... so ya that's not going to happen.
.............................
Also I wonder what the 20% growth in misc is. Is that sun flying?

I think much of it is. That, and holiday charters perhaps.

[Johnny Aussie]

http://yvr.ca/en/flight-information/latest-information/15-12-01/There_s_an_App_for_That_at_YVR.aspx

Just downloaded the new YVR app and have had a bit of a play with it.

Neat feature is the map... It's shows models in real time of various aircraft at each gate with flight info etc.... Fun stuff!

Download it and have a play! Going to see what else it can do....

Should come in handy on my next trip there in just a couple of weeks

[Alpine]

There was a thread on Reddit about YVR's new destinations, and the question of why there is no direct YVR-DEL or YVR-DXB came up.

On the subject of DXB, could EK even compete with the indirect fares through Europe, considering there's so much TATL competition? BA is offering $950 YVR-DXB fares via Heathrow (which is cheaper than YVR-SEA-DXB via EK with the weak loonie), and KLM will probably try to compete with that.

The two destinations I'm really excited about are San Diego and San Jose. San Diego because it's been a long time coming, and San Jose because it's the heart of Silicon Valley and this could be good news for Vancouver's burgeoning high tech industry.

[Klazu]

Also Air Canada has been having good deals for Dubai recently, to celebrate their new YYZ-DXB route. I remember seeing prices below $950 from YVR (via YYZ).

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Alpine

There was a thread on Reddit about YVR's new destinations, and the question of why there is no direct YVR-DEL or YVR-DXB came up.

On the subject of DXB, could EK even compete with the indirect fares through Europe, considering there's so much TATL competition? BA is offering $950 YVR-DXB fares via Heathrow (which is cheaper than YVR-SEA-DXB via EK with the weak loonie), and KLM will probably try to compete with that.

The two destinations I'm really excited about are San Diego and San Jose. San Diego because it's been a long time coming, and San Jose because it's the heart of Silicon Valley and this could be good news for Vancouver's burgeoning high tech industry.

DXB is right over the pole from YVR and is a long flight. anything to the east arches over the Pacific, which is why there are so many India-bound pax on flights to China.
I think Istanbul (IST) would serve YVR much better, but Ottawa has arranged the bilateral so that YYZ gets Turkish and AC (both*A) several times a day, once for YUL.

And hey! yes, great to have San Jose back, as well as beautiful San Diego. (memories, memories...)

[Klazu]

I have been recently eyeing for some deals to Asia and China Eastern Airlines has been coming up a lot with great deals through PVG. I have never flown with any of the Chinese airlines, but reviews for MU and PVG as a transit point are pretty poor. Many of their flights onwards are also onboard Shanghai Airlines which has even worse reviews.

Interesting thing to note has been how bad connections MU's YVR flight has in PVG. Most of the major destinations I have been looking at require 7 hour transit, which is quite a long layover. Doesn't seem very convenient unless you are traveling to Shanghai directly...

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I have been recently eyeing for some deals to Asia and China Eastern Airlines has been coming up a lot with great deals through PVG. I have never flown with any of the Chinese airlines, but reviews for MU and PVG as a transit point are pretty poor. Many of their flights onwards are also onboard Shanghai Airlines which has even worse reviews.

Interesting thing to note has been how bad connections MU's YVR flight has in PVG. Most of the major destinations I have been looking at require 7 hour transit, which is quite a long layover. Doesn't seem very convenient unless you are traveling to Shanghai directly...

Hmmmmm. A real downer. I wonder if Air canada could/would do YVR-DEL on Rouge? Nah... and besides they'd need a better plane than a 767.

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I have been recently eyeing for some deals to Asia and China Eastern Airlines has been coming up a lot with great deals through PVG. I have never flown with any of the Chinese airlines, but reviews for MU and PVG as a transit point are pretty poor.

I've always wanted to visit Dubai and India, and one of my biggest issues with flights to India is that the cheapest fares are on crappy airlines and transiting through crappy airports. (In this case, China Eastern via Shanghai, China Southern via Guangzhou, Air China via Beijing). CX837/CX889 don't line up very well with the HKG-DEL connections, transiting through Tokyo requires a 1 day layover or long train/limousine bus ride from HND to NRT, and TPE-DEL flights are not daily.

So for a balance of cost and service, that leaves AC/AI codeshare through Heathrow (Air India also sucks, so I've heard), AC through YYZ, or LH/KL via FRA or AMS (which is pricey).

Sigh...

[vanlaw]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I have been recently eyeing for some deals to Asia and China Eastern Airlines has been coming up a lot with great deals through PVG. I have never flown with any of the Chinese airlines, but reviews for MU and PVG as a transit point are pretty poor. Many of their flights onwards are also onboard Shanghai Airlines which has even worse reviews.

Interesting thing to note has been how bad connections MU's YVR flight has in PVG. Most of the major destinations I have been looking at require 7 hour transit, which is quite a long layover. Doesn't seem very convenient unless you are traveling to Shanghai directly...

Although they don't come in as cheap as some of the Chinese carriers, we had a really good experience on China Airlines (Taiwanese, not Chinese) transiting through Taipei a few years back. Flying in economy the comfort, entertainment, food etc. wasn't any worse than KLM, BA, AC or LH to Europe, and TPE was a pleasant airport to transit through. We had an 8 hr layover on the way home and there were plenty of express bus connections into the city (maybe the metro goes all the way to the airport now) to do some sightseeing and have dinner at one of the night markets.

I've also heard really good things about EVA through Taipei.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Alpine

I've always wanted to visit Dubai and India, and one of my biggest issues with flights to India is that the cheapest fares are on crappy airlines and transiting through crappy airports. (In this case, China Eastern via Shanghai, China Southern via Guangzhou, Air China via Beijing). CX837/CX889 don't line up very well with the HKG-DEL connections, transiting through Tokyo requires a 1 day layover or long train/limousine bus ride from HND to NRT, and TPE-DEL flights are not daily.

So for a balance of cost and service, that leaves AC/AI codeshare through Heathrow (Air India also sucks, so I've heard), AC through YYZ, or LH/KL via FRA or AMS (which is pricey).

Sigh...

If, by any chance, a bilateral goes through, what about Jet Airways? Seems from what I've heard to be a bit cleaner than Air India, if nothing else.
Anyway, they are planning a major expansion. (Is there some snarl-up with them at the moment? Please tell me if so) Thank you.
They already codeshare with Air Canada

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by vanlaw

Although they don't come in as cheap as some of the Chinese carriers, we had a really good experience on China Airlines (Taiwanese, not Chinese) transiting through Taipei a few years back.

Yeah, China Airlines, EVA Air and of course Cathay Pacific are all good airlines, but unfortunately they don't seem to come out very cheap. I have seen some good deals on JAL through NRT this fall, but mostly it is the Chinese airlines offering the sub-$1000 deals to Asian megacities.

I could also consider flying China Southern Airlines via Guangzhou, as they fly a 787 to Vancouver and Guangzhou offers a 72 visa-free transit, which is pretty cool. Transiting in China does generally sound overtly cumbersome due to their visa system, although I have to admit that I have not looked into it in detail when transiting.

Would love to find something nice still before Christmas, but time is running short...

[vanlaw]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Yeah, China Airlines, EVA Air and of course Cathay Pacific are all good airlines, but unfortunately they don't seem to come out very cheap. I have seen some good deals on JAL through NRT this fall, but mostly it is the Chinese airlines offering the sub-$1000 deals to Asian megacities.

I could also consider flying China Southern Airlines via Guangzhou, as they fly a 787 to Vancouver and Guangzhou offers a 72 visa-free transit, which is pretty cool. Transiting in China does generally sound overtly cumbersome due to their visa system, although I have to admit that I have not looked into it in detail when transiting.

Would love to find something nice still before Christmas, but time is running short...

Wow..ya. Just checked some random itineraries ion ITA ad they came out more than Cathay in some instances. When we flew with them a few years back they were significantly cheaper than the rest.

[Johnny Aussie]

There are sooooooo many one-stop options to South Asia, South-East Asia, and Asia in general. But yes, have to factor in all the criteria: cost, comfort, time, alliances, freq flyer miles etc... Good luck!

We are flying Air China soon via PEK. It's been five years since we've done that. Almost always fly Star Alliance so thought we'd give them a go again especially now the MEL-PEK leg is nonstop and no longer via PVG.

With the 72-hour visa free thing as well we are doing two nights in PEK each way. Depending on the air quality index when we arrive will depend on how much we do! Last time in PEK the first thing I remember stepping off the plane was the smell of coal smoke.

[CareerShow]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

There are sooooooo many one-stop options to South Asia, South-East Asia, and Asia in general. But yes, have to factor in all the criteria: cost, comfort, time, alliances, freq flyer miles etc... Good luck!

We are flying Air China soon via PEK. It's been five years since we've done that. Almost always fly Star Alliance so thought we'd give them a go again especially now the MEL-PEK leg is nonstop and no longer via PVG.

With the 72-hour visa free thing as well we are doing two nights in PEK each way. Depending on the air quality index when we arrive will depend on how much we do! Last time in PEK the first thing I remember stepping off the plane was the smell of coal smoke.

PEK is a nice airport. Depending on the wind Beijing can be quite nice!

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I have been recently eyeing for some deals to Asia and China Eastern Airlines has been coming up a lot with great deals through PVG. I have never flown with any of the Chinese airlines, but reviews for MU and PVG as a transit point are pretty poor. Many of their flights onwards are also onboard Shanghai Airlines which has even worse reviews.

Interesting thing to note has been how bad connections MU's YVR flight has in PVG. Most of the major destinations I have been looking at require 7 hour transit, which is quite a long layover. Doesn't seem very convenient unless you are traveling to Shanghai directly...

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't recommend MU (although my experience has been more domestic and Shanghai - Hong Kong flights). Lot's of war stories to share about traveling on that airline...

The problem with Chinese airlines in general and transiting through China in particular is that if there are delays (or given the fact that Chinese airspace is very congested, **when** there are delays), little to no information is given to passengers. This is made worse by the fact that the level of English spoken by airline and airport staff can be very bad. Because of the lack of information and perennial flight delays, my friends in China actually use a smartphone app (can't remember the name) to track flight arrival / departure and gate changes as this is more reliable than the information they receive at the airport. Unfortunately, this is all in Chinese, so if you don't speak the language, you're out of luck. It's better in PEK and PVG than other Chinese airports, but I'd choose Japan, Korea or Hong Kong over China as a transit point any day of the month, even if I have to pay a bit more.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

We are flying Air China soon via PEK. It's been five years since we've done that. Almost always fly Star Alliance so thought we'd give them a go again especially now the MEL-PEK leg is nonstop and no longer via PVG.

With the 72-hour visa free thing as well we are doing two nights in PEK each way. Depending on the air quality index when we arrive will depend on how much we do! Last time in PEK the first thing I remember stepping off the plane was the smell of coal smoke.

Beijing's coming off a day with the worst air quality on record. Hope it clears up for your trip. You'll likely smell the same coal smoke as charcoal is still sometimes used for cooking (and heating in the winter).

[Vagabond]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

If, by any chance, a bilateral goes through, what about Jet Airways? Seems from what I've heard to be a bit cleaner than Air India, if nothing else.
Anyway, they are planning a major expansion. (Is there some snarl-up with them at the moment? Please tell me if so) Thank you.
They already codeshare with Air Canada

Jet Airways is now partly-owned by Etihad, who are slowly but surely turning them into a feeder airline (funneling international passengers through Abu Dhabi). They will continue to have a significant presence in India and intra-Asia, but I can't see them targeting North America or Europe for new routes anytime soon.

Air Canada does codeshare with Jet, but the flip side is that AC's new YYZ-DEL non-stop flight could very well kill off Jet's own DEL-BRU-YYZ route. Plus the AC/9W codeshare flight timings via LHR aren't that great (long layovers in both directions to/from YVR).

[casper]

Originally Posted by Vagabond

Jet Airways is now partly-owned by Etihad, who are slowly but surely turning them into a feeder airline (funneling international passengers through Abu Dhabi). They will continue to have a significant presence in India and intra-Asia, but I can't see them targeting North America or Europe for new routes anytime soon.

Air Canada does codeshare with Jet, but the flip side is that AC's new YYZ-DEL non-stop flight could very well kill off Jet's own DEL-BRU-YYZ route. Plus the AC/9W codeshare flight timings via LHR aren't that great (long layovers in both directions to/from YVR).

Air Canada also has a code share agreement with Etihad. All three airlines appear to like working with each other. At least from the outside, who knows what goes on behind the scenes.

Despite the fact that Heathow is a messed up airport (congested and all that) it probably is still the best place Air Canada and Jet to hand-off passengers between their two networks. More connections on the Canada end and the same two as is available in BRU. In BRU the only dots that get connected on the Canada side is Toronto (with Jet) and Montreal (with AC).

I did check times, but Dubai may also be a good point for connections between the Air Canada flight from Toronto and some of the regional centres in India on Jet.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Hmmmmm. A real downer. I wonder if Air canada could/would do YVR-DEL on Rouge? Nah... and besides they'd need a better plane than a 767.

Zero chance of YVR-DEL on rouge,Only the 787 and 777 can make the trip and AC is not putting those aircraft into rouge.

YYZ-DEL is now running and AC is learning lots about the specifics of operating the flight. One lesson learned is the high number of wheelchair pax, in some cases it is over 100 wheelchairs required on departure or arrival at YYZ. This has an operational and cost impact to route profitability. The high number of wheelchair pax might dissipate over time or only be a seasonal phenom. For the record, UA's 2 EWR-India flights do not have the same number of wheelchairs.

Network connectivity is another lesson that AC will have to learn. Is the YYZ-DEL flight a major contributor to network profitability?

I suspect that AC will enter into 12-18 month learning period for nonstops to India before going for a second city of multiple nonstop flights.

[Vagabond]

Originally Posted by Cage

Zero chance of YVR-DEL on rouge,Only the 787 and 777 can make the trip and AC is not putting those aircraft into rouge.

YYZ-DEL is now running and AC is learning lots about the specifics of operating the flight. One lesson learned is the high number of wheelchair pax, in some cases it is over 100 wheelchairs required on departure or arrival at YYZ. This has an operational and cost impact to route profitability. The high number of wheelchair pax might dissipate over time or only be a seasonal phenom. For the record, UA's 2 EWR-India flights do not have the same number of wheelchairs.

Network connectivity is another lesson that AC will have to learn. Is the YYZ-DEL flight a major contributor to network profitability?

I suspect that AC will enter into 12-18 month learning period for nonstops to India before going for a second city of multiple nonstop flights.

Hahaha!! We see the wheelchair "fleet" every time we fly to/from India. UA might not have the same problem at EWR but I have witnessed this phenomenon at several international airports. My (Indian) Mother-in-Law jokes about the Grannies who feign exhaustion, etc. to get wheelchair service when it's convenient, only to leap up, jostle, and run to be the first to get through immigration.