Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 195

osmo · #**3881** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 7:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

They had their own stadium... Skydome. Which, remember, was built with both them and the Jays in mind. Worked well as a home to both teams until, strangely enough, around the time that Rogers bought the place.

Or how about post- Cynamon & Sokolowski....

Rogers is too much of a scapegoat. They have owned the Jays and Skydome for over 10 years now, since 2004. The wheels started falling off the Argos the after C & S spun all the oil and started burning and Braley took over. The warning signs were back then when nobody wanted to buy the team and the CFL never addressed those core issues back then only to let it fester and rot more.

How soon we forget...
(2005)

-urbanToronto

To this ...
(2015)

-stadiumjourney

The first picture, was in 2005 when Rogers owned the stadium. Far form the conspiracy to bury the team as many like to point out. The stadium had 25,000+ in it almost each game, it was a healthy balance and Skydome was still the dump it was now back then. In 2015 what changed? Rogers still owned the stadium and aside from the Pan-Am games it was still dog crap attendance just like it was in 2014 with Rogers still owning the facility.

The league hung out Cynamon & Sokolowski to dry after they poured in a lot of resources, time, and effort into trying to get the brand and team back on stable footing. They never made a penny but they helped bring the Argos to a peak that IMO will be hard to replicate.

Nobody wants to be honest about the Argos. Its all Rogers fault, Skydomes fault, etc. Nobody wants to point out obvious flaws with the team and the market.

The CFL and Braley are chief to blame for never having a solid strategy for the team post 2010. Rogers has little to do with it unless you want to blame a business, for doing business.

esquire · #**3882** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 7:27 PM**

^ Fair comment. C&S made a bit of headway in re-establishing the Argo brand in Toronto. What's puzzling is that Braley seemed to have no interest in building upon that... all the more bizarre given that he did a respectable job of rebuilding the Lions franchise in Vancouver. The Argos basically just coasted gently downhill for the last five years until they ended up where they are now. In some ways Braley is the least motivated savior imaginable... the team still had some value, some cachet when he took over, but these days it's practically a charity case.

No question C&S dropped the ball by failing to get a new stadium built for the Argos... the ship sailed (no pun intended) without the Argos at U of T, York and BMO, and the Argos were stuck at Skydome with an increasingly hostile landlord.

So yes, Rogers is not the only factor in the decline of the Argos... there are others. But I'd still maintain that they had a hand in it.

Riise · #**3883** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 8:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migs

It's just a matter of taste I guess. I love how the tiered party zones look on TV at facilities like Target Field & Cowboys stadium. Its modern & translates a vibrant atmosphere.

I have to agree with equire. If they were proper terraces, they would beat a fully seated section but party zones just look tacky on TV.

Coldrsx · #**3884** Posted **Dec 1, 2015, 9:30 PM**

Rogers Place and Ice District

by me today

FrankieFlowerpot · #**3885** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 2:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

No question C&S dropped the ball by failing to get a new stadium built for the Argos... the ship sailed (no pun intended) without the Argos at U of T, York and BMO, and the Argos were stuck at Skydome with an increasingly hostile landlord.

So yes, Rogers is not the only factor in the decline of the Argos... there are others. But I'd still maintain that they had a hand in it.

The Argos were stuck at the Skydome because of C&S - they were the ones who walked away from that York project after signing a sweetheart deal with Rogers

http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Football/CFL/Toronto/2005/05/03/1023523.html

WhipperSnapper · #**3886** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 3:29 PM**

Just sounds nuts to place any blame on the owner/operator of the stadium for a team's downfall. They are in it to make money. You don't do that by "sabotaging" your tenants.

Berklon · #**3887** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 4:01 PM**

And blaming the Skydome for the lack of atmosphere is ridiculous. The Skydome wasn't the problem - it was the lack of fans. Any stadium that's 40% full has the same issue.
I never heard anyone complain when the Skydome hosts Grey Cups, and that's because most seats are filled.

Horus · #**3888** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 5:05 PM**

One important thing to remember is that at some point between the SkyDome/Argos agreement during the C&S years and present day, the stadium policy (determined by who exactly?) regarding required switchover times from baseball to football configurations was changed at least twice, leading to the scheduling nightmare that the Argos faced these past few years. It effectively left the Argos without but a handful of opportunities to have home games during the baseball season, as the Jays would have to be out of the stadium for at least 8 consecutive days.

Not saying that was THE factor, but it played a role to be certain.

VANRIDERFAN · #**3889** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 5:32 PM**

I see that on the New Mosaic Stadium website that they are installing what appears to be sheet metal at the area where the roof meets the outside walls. There still appears to be vertical support beams that are higher than the sheet metal sheathing.
http://www.reginarevitalization.ca/stadiumcam/

As the render shows a bit of a lip on the roof edge that does not seem to correspond with the size of the vertical supports, I am wondering if there is a void space (or maybe insulated) between that sheathing currently being installed and the actual roof.

FrankieFlowerpot · #**3890** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 6:10 PM**

I'm guessing there is mechanical equipment in that area - given the appearance of louvres there

esquire · #**3891** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 6:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus

One important thing to remember is that at some point between the SkyDome/Argos agreement during the C&S years and present day, the stadium policy (determined by who exactly?) regarding required switchover times from baseball to football configurations was changed at least twice, leading to the scheduling nightmare that the Argos faced these past few years. It effectively left the Argos without but a handful of opportunities to have home games during the baseball season, as the Jays would have to be out of the stadium for at least 8 consecutive days.

Not saying that was THE factor, but it played a role to be certain.

That article that Frankie posted implied that the Argos were going to have a far better schedule with the new lease... that obviously did not turn out to be true and the crap schedule they've had over the years has undeniably had a role in the team's attendance challenges.

osmo · #**3892** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 7:52 PM**

Braley was known to want Friday and Saturday games only.

There is the management group that runs the building that Rogers does own but would be the ones who would handle that (conversions). Paul Beston ran everything at Skydome and was around back in the Argos good days too so I can't see him being ignorant to not know anything about conversions.

You can make anything happen with money. You can convert that place in 24hrs if you pay the manpower to do it.

Staples Center can lay fresh new ice down and host all 3 tenants in a 24 hour period, so the idea you can't roll some seats back and roll back some turf with some bobcats quicker then that is a joke.

Conversions work the night shift. You would need a double shift for very tight deadlines and that means more costs, but it is doable.

I speculate that Braley in being stubborn in his date requests was not willing to spend the extra money for tight conversion deadlines when say a Jays series ended on a Wednesday and you had to get ready for a Friday football game.

Stubborn and cheap define Braley and how he has run both teams.

Horus · #**3893** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 9:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

That article that Frankie posted implied that the Argos were going to have a far better schedule with the new lease... that obviously did not turn out to be true and the crap schedule they've had over the years has undeniably had a role in the team's attendance challenges.

They actually did get a better schedule - at first. Saying it was far better, is probably a stretch (not your words, I know). I was an Argo STH at the time and the schedule did get better in the first year or two. However, after that, a few things happened, which I believed contributed to the worsening of the schedule.

Rogers, to their credit, implemented a number of changes to the Dome to improve the baseball experience. They also added the video boards on the outfield walls and put in the next-generation turf. However, these improvements were cited as factors in the change in stadium conversion policy instituted, meaning that to install/uninstall some of these elements would lengthen the time needed to turn around the field for football. Then it was increased again until it got to the point where the Jays had to be away for nearly a week and a half for them to 'comfortably' fit a football game into the schedule. Road trips of that duration are not common in MLB, so we get the situation we've seen in the past 3-4 years where the Argos would get a back-loaded home schedule.

FrankieFlowerpot · #**3894** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 9:23 PM**

https://twitter.com/GIVENS38/status/671343540803387392

https://twitter.com/Kam_Ivan/status/672158565034041349/photo/1

Horus · #**3895** Posted **Dec 2, 2015, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

Braley was known to want Friday and Saturday games only.

There is the management group that runs the building that Rogers does own but would be the ones who would handle that (conversions). Paul Beston ran everything at Skydome and was around back in the Argos good days too so I can't see him being ignorant to not know anything about conversions.

You can make anything happen with money. You can convert that place in 24hrs if you pay the manpower to do it.

Staples Center can lay fresh new ice down and host all 3 tenants in a 24 hour period, so the idea you can't roll some seats back and roll back some turf with some bobcats quicker then that is a joke.

Conversions work the night shift. You would need a double shift for very tight deadlines and that means more costs, but it is doable.

I speculate that Braley in being stubborn in his date requests was not willing to spend the extra money for tight conversion deadlines when say a Jays series ended on a Wednesday and you had to get ready for a Friday football game.

Stubborn and cheap define Braley and how he has run both teams.

I believe this to be true as well. Long conversion times were almost certainly a product of the work being done by a minimally-sized crew during daytime hours.

C&S had tried overlaying a football field directly over the baseball field (to minimize conversion effort) with disastrous results (lines were comically crooked)

blueandgoldguy · #**3896** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 12:41 AM**

I took a look at the BMO Construction thread on the Red Bitch Boys forum. The unabated hate for the Argos continues.

osmo · #**3897** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 1:26 AM**

I always wondered if they would remove the "roof" on the east side of BMO field that is above the press box, I guess they will leave it there.

Also what is odd about BMO Field is the new stands are much higher then the original East stands. I assume then the roof will be level for both sides.

I wasn't expecting it to go all the way to the field, it is going to be a very massive covering.

Oilkountry · #**3898** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 4:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

I always wondered if they would remove the "roof" on the east side of BMO field that is above the press box, I guess they will leave it there.

Also what is odd about BMO Field is the new stands are much higher then the original East stands. I assume then the roof will be level for both sides.

I wasn't expecting it to go all the way to the field, it is going to be a very massive covering.

I would imagine they will keep the roof on so they can heat the press box. as for the hieght difference,. One thing me and a buddy noticed is that keeping the canopy the the same height as the taller grand stand gives them the ability to add a 3rd level of seating or skyboxes to the original stand in the future if they ever see fit. Obviously im just spit balling here maybe im out to lunch but it's an option if there is 35-50 feet between the top of the canopy and the stands once the canopy is up that ;eaves enough room for another set of stands

.

MLSE is just following the path of Frankenstein stadiums you see all over Europe, Best example is old traff

FrankieFlowerpot · #**3899** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 4:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

I always wondered if they would remove the "roof" on the east side of BMO field that is above the press box, I guess they will leave it there.

Also what is odd about BMO Field is the new stands are much higher then the original East stands. I assume then the roof will be level for both sides.

I wasn't expecting it to go all the way to the field, it is going to be a very massive covering.

It's staying

caltrane74 · #**3900** Posted **Dec 3, 2015, 5:07 PM**

looks good man!