Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

"I don't know" is not an option in politics. Better to suffer a bit of flak now for changing the date than to have gone through a year of haranguing for "not being able to manage a project".

True. Perhaps if it was stated as "if breakthrough occurs by Oct 31, than opening late 2016, else opening 2017".

[Olden Retreiver]

Originally Posted by Kwik-E-Mart

Cost overruns? That's something SNC shareholders need to worry about..

That would be the positive aspect of P3 and fixed-price contracts. To play in this game, companies like SNC need to have the capacity and willingness to win some and lose some.

Unfortunately, this financial model can over-emphasize the profit model such that the best methods are not always employed.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

That would be the positive aspect of P3 and fixed-price contracts. To play in this game, companies like SNC need to have the capacity and willingness to win some and lose some.

Unfortunately, this financial model can over-emphasize the profit model such that the best methods are not always employed.

It also has to build in financing for companies like SNC or conglomerates that often build on this type of thing. Insurance companies and others put up the money and often demand 10% or higher returns.

The government can borrow for far less than that. That's the main reason the PMB didn't get to a P3, nobody could bid on it with an affordable price. Of course, we seem to be seeing why now, as that project continues to bleed $$.

[Olden Retreiver]

This article spells out several of the REAL problems with delays and cost overruns on Evergreen, problems that too many on this forum would not like to acknowledge.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/evergreen+line+launch+delayed+2017/11548970/story.html

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

This article spells out several of the REAL problems with delays and cost overruns on Evergreen, problems that too many on this forum would not like to acknowledge.

I completely agree with Coquitlam Mayor Richard Stewart that the failure of the transit referendum will have a far more serious and long-reaching impact on transit in the region than the delays and any extra costs in getting the Millennium line up and running.

[Olden Retreiver]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I completely agree with Coquitlam Mayor Richard Stewart that the failure of the transit referendum will have a far more serious and long-reaching impact on transit in the region than the delays and any extra costs in getting the Millennium line up and running.

The government merely has to raise PST to 7.5% in the next budget, and Translink's funding problems are solved (along with multiple other transportation issues across the Province, including bus service along Highway 16.)

I know a number of people who voted against the transit sales tax simply and philosophically because a regional tax like that is the wrong way to go.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

The government merely has to raise PST to 7.5% in the next budget, and Translink's funding problems are solved

Except that raises the contentious issue of the saddling the hinterlands with the tab for Lower Mainland's transit. The regional sales tax was supposed to address that complaint.

The government has already gone on record as saying it won't introduce any new tax without a referendum. They got so badly stung by the HST debacle that they're afraid to poke their heads up on tax issues any more. So a 7.5% PST is a non-starter.

[casper]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Except that raises the contentious issue of the saddling the hinterlands with the tab for Lower Mainland's transit. The regional sales tax was supposed to address that complaint.

The government has already gone on record as saying it won't introduce any new tax without a referendum. They got so badly stung by the HST debacle that they're afraid to poke their heads up on tax issues any more. So a 7.5% PST is a non-starter.

The "hinterland" already is a major driver for provincial revenue either through economic activities or indirect. What is one more tax.

[Sheba]

Who says all the money will go to the lower mainland? They could easily divide it up for transportation (hopefully mostly public transit) across BC.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by casper

The "hinterland" already is a major driver for provincial revenue either through economic activities or indirect. What is one more tax.

Don't forget that even though southwest BC has most of the population, the hinterland has a disproportionate share of seats in the legislature. You just wait to hear the hue and cry if the Province announced a general tax hike to benefit Vancouver.

I can't see how any claim that it would fund general transportation generally would be believed in a province that never seems to have had any problem coming up with money for highway expansion. A new tax in conjunction with funding announcements for lower mainland transit projects would be seen for exactly what it is.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just that it's not going to happen in our political climate without a change of government.

[Olden Retreiver]

The Provincial party most likely to increase the sales tax gets my vote in 2017. I'll actively campaign for them if they pledge to harmonize it with GST.

And I've got three words for anyone who thinks the "hinterland" subsidizes Metro Vancouver: Property Transfer Tax.

[WarrenC12]

^^^^ Consumption taxes are the best way to tax. Even the PST in its current form is better than income tax.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

^^^^ Consumption taxes are the best way to tax. Even the PST in its current form is better than income tax.

True, because it affects everyone... and generally wealthy people more. However consumption taxes only work if nearby tax jurisdictions are on the same page. Which they are not.

Seattle has 2.7% tax all to itself. 6.5% State tax.
Vancouver has.... 7% PST, 5% GST, so we're at 12%, or a minimum of 5.5% more than across the border. Alberta only has the GST (though for how long)

Since they are not, that means the people who live the closest to the border (eg Surrey, Delta, White Rock, Langley, Abbotsford) and those who live near Alberta will just buy from the stores across the border, thus less of that revenue goes to the Province.

As they say, you never add a tax, because it never disappears.

[jlousa]

I've tried to explain the same thing repeatly, but people don't seem to grasp it. That's why the province keeps pushing for the mayors to go the property tax route. You can't evade it, and it's progressive, hits the highest value properties more then the lowest.

[Jimbo604]

This is getting off topic...

Anyways, there is a post-boring next steps tunnel document up on the Evergreen website
document - date: Nov 27

Source: Evergreen website

[casper]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

This is getting off topic...

Anyways, there is a post-boring next steps tunnel document up on the Evergreen website
document - date: Nov 27

Source: Evergreen website

Interesting they are building a wall between the two tracks. Is that for improved aerodynamics or is there a different reason?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by casper

Interesting they are building a wall between the two tracks. Is that for improved aerodynamics or is there a different reason?

Safety. If there's some sort of emergency in one direction the wall prevents it from affecting both directions. Access doors at regular intervals allow the other half of the tunnel to be used for evacuation.

[Jimbo604]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Safety. If there's some sort of emergency in one direction the wall prevents it from affecting both directions. Access doors at regular intervals allow the other half of the tunnel to be used for evacuation.

From Nov 27th document:

"Next Steps:

Dismantling the TBM
The tunnel boring machine will be dismantled and removed from the south tunnel work area. This will take about two months.

Tunnel Construction
Construction will occur in the tunnel to build the base for the track and the interior centre wall that separates inbound and outbound trains.

Track and Systems Installation
Once the interior base and centre wall are built, tunnel ventilation systems will be installed and then track installation will occur. Rails are welded outside the tunnel, and will be pushed from the north tunnel portal through the tunnel. Following track installation, power systems and communications systems will be installed."

Rails are welded together outside and pushed from the portal through the tunnel... I wonder what the longest section of rails that they will do this for is? And do they have to wait for the two months of TBM removal before advancing to the tunnel construction step, or can that be started sooner?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

Rails are welded together outside and pushed from the portal through the tunnel... I wonder what the longest section of rails that they will do this for is? And do they have to wait for the two months of TBM removal before advancing to the tunnel construction step, or can that be started sooner?

I don't see any reason why they can't weld the rails for the entire length of the tunnel. But they can't start on that step until they've built the flat railbed, and probably the central partition too. Even if that work can start immediately it's likely to take as long as it takes to remove the TBM.

[SOSS]

Is the flat rail bed and partition wall prefab? I would assume not and will require a lot of steel workers and concrete trucks.