ATLANTA | Development Thread V - Page 816

Street Advocate · #**16301** Posted **Nov 20, 2015, 2:41 PM**

Apparently I'm awful at formatting posts here

Martinman · #**16302** Posted **Nov 20, 2015, 2:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

I meant the size (600,000 sq. ft. is the old design), but that $1 billion is the bond financing cap, not the project cost. It's more because of interest. Still, $1 billion seems like a lot for a $350 million project. Apparently they're paying for the entire project and expecting it to cost more than projected. Either that or they're selling 100+ year bonds

That's not the way it works. They're only getting a $15 million tax break over 15 years. Bonds are issued for the entire cost of the project ($350 million) since Invest Atlanta "controls" the development until the bonds are repaid. There's no way that they are issuing bonds for over three times as much for this one project.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/invest-atlanta-approves-incentives-for-tech-square/nn3qc/

GeorgiaPeanuts · #**16303** Posted **Nov 20, 2015, 3:21 PM**

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morni...-city-votes-against-marta-expansion.html

Is a crappy place to live. Went to high school in what it now comprises and lived there a little in college. All my family (old and young) got the hell out of dodge as soon as they could to move closer in-town. Good to see they are doubling down on making it an even crappier place to live.

Atlanta3000 · #**16304** Posted **Nov 20, 2015, 4:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinman

That's not the way it works. They're only getting a $15 million tax break over 15 years. Bonds are issued for the entire cost of the project ($350 million) since Invest Atlanta "controls" the development until the bonds are repaid. There's no way that they are issuing bonds for over three times as much for this one project.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/invest-atlanta-approves-incentives-for-tech-square/nn3qc/

The math still doesn't work. The combined GA Tech, Post Centennial and the Marta Edgewood-Candler Park station project are at most $650 Million. Why is Invest Atlanta issuing a bond for $1.12 Billion? At the end of the day, the taxpayers are ultimately responsible for paying back the bond if these private corporations go belly up. I am not opposed to taxpayers helping finance private sector economic development projects, but the details should transparent.

Atlanta3000 · #**16305** Posted **Nov 20, 2015, 4:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morni...-city-votes-against-marta-expansion.html

Is a crappy place to live. Went to high school in what it now comprises and lived there a little in college. All my family (old and young) got the hell out of dodge as soon as they could to move closer in-town. Good to see they are doubling down on making it an even crappier place to live.

This is BULLSH!T - the State and Federal governments should immediately pull all funding for road construction projects in North Fulton.

The North Fulton Commission is of the belief their taxpayers shouldn't have to pay the existing 1/2 cent sales tax to fund MARTA or the additional 1/2 cent sales tax for the expansion. If I use their train of thought, I should have my taxes reduced that help fund GA's public schools and universities because I don't have any children.

What a bunch of selfish narrow minded @$$holes!

RocketSurgeon · #**16306** Posted **Nov 20, 2015, 4:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinman

That's not the way it works. They're only getting a $15 million tax break over 15 years. Bonds are issued for the entire cost of the project ($350 million) since Invest Atlanta "controls" the development until the bonds are repaid. There's no way that they are issuing bonds for over three times as much for this one project.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/invest-atlanta-approves-incentives-for-tech-square/nn3qc/

Bonds worth 3x the project cost doesn't add up and it makes no sense for them to pay for all of it, but the face value of bonds is higher than the price... this is oversimplifying it, but if you want $100 million in your pocket now you need to sell $200 million worth of bonds to get it... I'm just saying bond value and project cost are not the same thing. I'm sure it varies wildly case by case and it's possible (probably even likely) that article is just wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

I am not opposed to taxpayers helping finance private sector economic development projects, but the details should transparent.

They actually release all kinds of reports about things like this so you could look into it if you want details.

Frankster87 · #**16307** Posted **Nov 20, 2015, 4:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

This is BULLSH!T - the State and Federal governments should immediately pull all funding for road construction projects in North Fulton.

The North Fulton Commission is of the belief their taxpayers shouldn't have to pay the existing 1/2 cent sales tax to fund MARTA or the additional 1/2 cent sales tax for the expansion. If I use their train of thought, I should have my taxes reduced that help fund GA's public schools and universities because I don't have any children.

What a bunch of selfish narrow minded @$$holes!

Preach!! These isolationist attitudes are exactly the types of things that make it difficult for us to address problems as a region.

ATLSkyPalaceOwner · #**16308** Posted **Nov 20, 2015, 6:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

This is BULLSH!T - the State and Federal governments should immediately pull all funding for road construction projects in North Fulton.

LOL, omg, this forum ...

Martinman · #**16309** Posted **Nov 20, 2015, 11:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

The math still doesn't work. The combined GA Tech, Post Centennial and the Marta Edgewood-Candler Park station project are at most $650 Million. Why is Invest Atlanta issuing a bond for $1.12 Billion? At the end of the day, the taxpayers are ultimately responsible for paying back the bond if these private corporations go belly up. I am not opposed to taxpayers helping finance private sector economic development projects, but the details should transparent.

I'm saying that Invest Atlanta authorized bonds for UP TO $1.2 billion dollars which is likely for those 3 and other potential projects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Bonds worth 3x the project cost doesn't add up and it makes no sense for them to pay for all of it, but the face value of bonds is higher than the price... this is oversimplifying it, but if you want $100 million in your pocket now you need to sell $200 million worth of bonds to get it... I'm just saying bond value and project cost are not the same thing. I'm sure it varies wildly case by case and it's possible (probably even likely) that article is just wrong.

No this is not the same thing as typical bonds. This is a lease-purchase transaction, which is totally different. Basically, Invest Atlanta has to acquire title to the project to get the tax breaks. The developer / owner repays the bonds, and then resumes title to the project at the end of the "lease" term. So in fact the value of the bond will be exactly the budgeted cost of the project.

thepope117 · #**16310** Posted **Nov 21, 2015, 3:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinman

I'm saying that Invest Atlanta authorized bonds for UP TO $1.2 billion dollars which is likely for those 3 and other potential projects.

No this is not the same thing as typical bonds. This is a lease-purchase transaction, which is totally different. Basically, Invest Atlanta has to acquire title to the project to get the tax breaks. The developer / owner repays the bonds, and then resumes title to the project at the end of the "lease" term. So in fact the value of the bond will be exactly the budgeted cost of the project.

They may be footing the hardware bill for the data center as well. Considering its going to be compute oriented that alone could add up to 150 more to the build cost but even with that very large carve out i don't 1.2 billion being justified for a project at this scale. It should also be noted that the 150 would be for one of the most powerful compute centers in the western hemisphere unless they are trying to take the compute crown and hold it for a few years i doubt the number is accurate.

Atlanta3000 · #**16311** Posted **Nov 21, 2015, 11:53 AM**

Apartments at Suntrust Park

http://blog.wbassociates.com/?cat=18

GeorgiaPeanuts · #**16312** Posted **Nov 21, 2015, 3:39 PM**

Now why can't Fuqua do that in his other "urban" formats?

Pemgin · #**16313** Posted **Nov 21, 2015, 4:56 PM**

lol @ "Urban People"

MdtwnATL · #**16314** Posted **Nov 21, 2015, 5:40 PM**

Hmmm maybe they should have just built the new baseball stadium by Atlantic Station since it seems they are mimicking it here.

Dale · #**16315** Posted **Nov 21, 2015, 5:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morni...-city-votes-against-marta-expansion.html

Is a crappy place to live. Went to high school in what it now comprises and lived there a little in college. All my family (old and young) got the hell out of dodge as soon as they could to move closer in-town. Good to see they are doubling down on making it an even crappier place to live.

A few years back, Fortune Magazine featured a survey that showed that suburban Atlantans enjoyed the best standard of living in the world.

Ant131531 · #**16316** Posted **Nov 21, 2015, 6:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale

A few years back, Fortune Magazine featured a survey that showed that suburban Atlantans enjoyed the best standard of living in the world.

Wouldn't be surprised. The vast majority of the people that moved here in the last 2-3 decades with the intention of living the suburban lifestyle came from dense urban cities like NYC, Chicago, Philly, etc.

Dale · #**16317** Posted **Nov 21, 2015, 7:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Wouldn't be surprised. The vast majority of the people that moved here in the last 2-3 decades with the intention of living the suburban lifestyle came from dense urban cities like NYC, Chicago, Philly, etc.

As I recall, the metric was bang-for-the-buck. I just know that my sister lives in LA and she gags at the opulence of the homes in Atlanta.

arjay57 · #**16318** Posted **Nov 22, 2015, 8:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

Now why can't Fuqua do that in his other "urban" formats?

I think developers sometimes have to be nudged by planning departments (or in the case of the SPIs, by the zoning code itself) to include street level retail.

The Braves may have some sort of master plan at Suntrust that requires it.