Sacramento Proposal/Approval/Construction Thread - III

[ozone]

The proposed Vanir Tower at 601 J Street looks to have become 'inactive'. As I said, while I want new high-rises downtown, I was never very really excited about the Vanir Tower's design. It seemed to be already dated and inappropriate for out climate. Hopefully, when the market for office space improves enough he'll come back with a different design.

[Pistola916]

Originally Posted by ozone

The proposed Vanir Tower at 601 J Street looks to have become 'inactive'. As I said, while I want new high-rises downtown, I was never very really excited about the Vanir Tower's design. It seemed to be already dated and inappropriate for out climate. Hopefully, when the market for office space improves enough he'll come back with a different design.

While Vanir's design appears to be outdated, if built, it would easily be the best looking high-rise in the skyline. That says a lot about the city's architecture - or lack thereof.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by Pistola916

*She"ll. Dorene Dominguez is the CEO of Vanir.

While Vanir's design appears to be outdated, if built, it would easily be the best looking high-rise in the skyline. That says a lot about the city's architecture - or lack thereof.

My bad. I was thinking of Alexander Leon. Regarding the design. I guess I'm just over the geometric-origami-modern trend. I'm not convinced it would have been the best looking. Of course, if given a choice of that tower design or no tower at all, I'd prefer a tower. But I agree that we need to up our game. Besides the next tower needs to a mixed-use residential/office taller that 377 feet.

[Web]

arent they still working on removing the insides? or is that the kaiser building oooops

[SacTownAndy]

More news on the Vanir Tower:


Why a proposed downtown office tower could get taller

Ben van der Meer
Staff Writer
Sacramento Business Journal
Nov 16, 2015, 7:14am PST


Developers of the proposed downtown office building called Vanir Tower said they are seeing more interest from potential tenants than they had expected.

While Vanir Group of Cos. senior vice president and chief financial officer Alexander Leon has said the project remains on track, city planners said the developer has indicated it plans revisions to the project — suggesting the size of the building may increase.

Proposed last year at 26 stories and 377 feet tall, Vanir Tower would be the first office tower in downtown Sacramento since 2009. Vanir representatives said at the time they expect entitlements to take at least two years...

...Revisions for Vanir Tower, proposed on the site of vacant office buildings at 601 J St., could involve adding square footage, which would seem to translate into more stories. If so, Vanir Tower could be pushing toward a status as one of the tallest buildings in the region, if not the tallest....

Entire story: http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/ne...sed-downtown-office-tower-could-get.html

[creamcityleo79]

Thankfully, we were wrong about Vanir Tower....


Why a proposed downtown office tower could get taller

Developers of the proposed downtown office building called Vanir Tower said they are seeing more interest from potential tenants than they had expected.
While Vanir Group of Cos. senior vice president and chief financial officer Alexander Leon has said the project remains on track, city planners said the developer has indicated it plans revisions to the project — suggesting the size of the building may increase.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/ne...sed-downtown-office-tower-could-get.html

[snfenoc]

Originally Posted by creamcityleo79

Thankfully, we were wrong about Vanir Tower....


Why a proposed downtown office tower could get taller


http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/ne...sed-downtown-office-tower-could-get.html

I remain VERY cautiously optimistic about this tower because it would be home to the actual developer/builder and its ties to the arena.

I think Sacramento needs to get on the existing office to residential conversion bandwagon...and quick.


Below is a link to a nice article on live music venues (or lack thereof) on K Street. Basically, it's too damn expensive. The other take I get from the article is Sacramentans simply don't support that stuff enough. I hear a lot of bellyaching from certain area residents about what Sacramento lacks, but they don't seem to support what exists. Go out and support your city!

Live-music clubs a no-go at DoCo and on K Street
BY CHRIS MACIAS

Music flows from the Microsoft Theater adjacent to Staples Center in Los Angeles. Guitars wail in the Basement in Columbus, Ohio, part of Nationwide Arena’s entertainment district. But in Sacramento’s burgeoning Downtown Commons – and on K Street near Golden 1 Center – it’s the sound of silence in terms of live-music clubs.

Read more here:
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article45006939.html

[ozone]

Originally Posted by SacTownAndy

More news on the Vanir Tower:


Why a proposed downtown office tower could get taller

Ben van der Meer
Staff Writer
Sacramento Business Journal
Nov 16, 2015, 7:14am PST


Developers of the proposed downtown office building called Vanir Tower said they are seeing more interest from potential tenants than they had expected.

While Vanir Group of Cos. senior vice president and chief financial officer Alexander Leon has said the project remains on track, city planners said the developer has indicated it plans revisions to the project — suggesting the size of the building may increase.

Proposed last year at 26 stories and 377 feet tall, Vanir Tower would be the first office tower in downtown Sacramento since 2009. Vanir representatives said at the time they expect entitlements to take at least two years...

...Revisions for Vanir Tower, proposed on the site of vacant office buildings at 601 J St., could involve adding square footage, which would seem to translate into more stories. If so, Vanir Tower could be pushing toward a status as one of the tallest buildings in the region, if not the tallest....

Entire story: http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/ne...sed-downtown-office-tower-could-get.html

Well hope springs eternal. I said awhile back that they should tell our local negative, anti-urban, ball-less market analyzers to go and f*k themselves and build it higher. There are just as many examples (if not more) of speculative building defying conventional 'wisdom' turning out to positive and profitable, than the other way around. I just hope if they do intend to move forward that they choose another architect.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by snfenoc

I remain VERY cautiously optimistic about this tower because it would be home to the actual developer/builder and its ties to the arena.

I think Sacramento needs to get on the existing office to residential conversion bandwagon...and quick.


Below is a link to a nice article on live music venues (or lack thereof) on K Street. Basically, it's too damn expensive. The other take I get from the article is Sacramentans simply don't support that stuff enough. I hear a lot of bellyaching from certain area residents about what Sacramento lacks, but they don't seem to support what exists. Go out and support your city!

Live-music clubs a no-go at DoCo and on K Street
BY CHRIS MACIAS



Read more here:
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article45006939.html

I take most articles (particularly from the Bee and SBJ) stating that Sacramentans do not support live entertainment with a huge grain of salt. These people have no clue what's really going on after they rush back to their home in the burbs.

[LandofFrost]

Originally Posted by ozone

I take most articles (particularly from the Bee and SBJ) stating that Sacramentans do not support live entertainment with a huge grain of salt. These people have no clue what's really going on after they rush back to their home in the burbs.

I saw three live bands in Sacramento this weekend. All clubs/restaurants that they were at were packed and all downtown. People are hungry for more... it's obvious to those that actually attend.

[Web]

Originally Posted by LandofFrost

I saw three live bands in Sacramento this weekend. All clubs/restaurants that they were at were packed and all downtown. People are hungry for more... it's obvious to those that actually attend.

Did anyone read the article and who were speaking?...its not about music not working in downtown Sac it was about K street being too expensive.
I think the people that run Ace of Spades and also Paraguarys are not random people who do not have a clue.

[enigma99a]

Originally Posted by ozone

Well hope springs eternal. I said awhile back that they should tell our local negative, anti-urban, ball-less market analyzers to go and f*k themselves and build it higher. There are just as many examples (if not more) of speculative building defying conventional 'wisdom' turning out to positive and profitable, than the other way around. I just hope if they do intend to move forward that they choose another architect.

I actually like the design but it is stubby. If it were taller I think it would look quite nice

[wburg]

Creative uses (like live music venues) tend to need a lot of space and can't afford high rents per square foot, which is why they are better suited to old buildings (not necessarily "historic buildings" but just run-of-the-mill old buildings) where rent is cheaper. There were music venues and art galleries in old buildings in the 1980s, like Club Can't Tell and IDEA Gallery, but they got pushed out in the office building boom toward the end of that decade. $3.50 per square foot doesn't work for a black-box theater or a live music venue--those are premium prices that a bank or a tech company can afford to pay, which appeals to commercial leasing agents (for whom "vibrant" means "fully leased") but these safe, high-rent businesses don't add much to street life. Neither does the promise of a soon-to-be-completed urban amenity mean much to a new downtown restaurant or small music venue, who are paying rent as though the amenity was already built and attracting customers even though those customers have not arrived.

It's not that people don't want to open businesses, live music venues, etcetera, on K Street--it's that they cannot afford the rents being charged. That's part of why we have blighted buildings like the Renaissance Tower (built during that 1980s office boom), whose ground floor retail spaces are now entirely vacant. Many of the landlords have unrealistic ideas about how much rent they should get for their buildings, especially since the arena plan went through, and would rather let their buildings sit vacant than lower the rent.

I don't think it is a matter of Sacramentans not supporting live music venues, although many who live out in the slurbs often just don't know that our live music venues exist and never bother looking because all they hear about is how horrible and boring downtown Sacramento is. They probably hear more about venues that aren't going to open for another year or two, like the ancillary development around the arena, than actual venues that are open now, and you can't visit restaurants that don't exist yet.

The Knitting Factory 2000-seat venue on the 700 block was a complete sham, like most of the plan that accompanied it. They claimed they were going to fit that 2000 seat hall into two buildings with a total footprint of less than 8000 square feet--whereas the closest existing venue to that capacity, Sacramento Community Center theater (2400 capacity), is closer to 50,000 square feet.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by Web

Did anyone read the article and who were speaking?...its not about music not working in downtown Sac it was about K street being too expensive.
I think the people that run Ace of Spades and also Paraguarys are not random people who do not have a clue.

Yes I read the article and I know who was speaking. I responding to the OP. But I also just didn't buy the arguments being made by Bair. The problem isn't just that rents are too high. It's also that people are still reluctant to go down to K Street at night. That will change (hopefully) when the arena opens. But is K Street even the best place for that sort of the thing?

[wburg]

Really? The 1000 block of K Street still gets a few thousand people showing up every weekend to visit K Bar, Social, District 30, Dive Bar and other nightclubs, restaurants like Mayahuel, and Coin-Op always seems to be really busy after 6 PM whenever I visit. If K Street isn't the best place for live music venues, what is the best place? And what, then, is the best use for the neighborhood around the arena?

[Web]

Originally Posted by wburg

Really? The 1000 block of K Street still gets a few thousand people showing up every weekend to visit K Bar, Social, District 30, Dive Bar and other nightclubs, restaurants like Mayahuel, and Coin-Op always seems to be really busy after 6 PM whenever I visit. If K Street isn't the best place for live music venues, what is the best place? And what, then, is the best use for the neighborhood around the arena?

I don't think the concern was for fri sat nights but for the remaining 5 slower nights

[ozone]

The City and Downtown Partnership is trying to rebrand the old K St. Mall area into an 'entertainment district' (or maybe resurrect it). That's fine I guess but they need to concern themselves with cleaning the place up. IMO a place like the AoS is better suited for R Street where there's larger spaces and room for crowds. While I like the idea of more music venues I'd rather see more restaurants and shops and residents along K Street since that would enliven the area both day and night.

Also I don't think empty storefront are the product solely of too high of rents. Many of the properties owners (often a partnership) can sit on their investment for a long time without much cost to them, until they can sell/or lease it at the highest possible price. Having tenants isn't always beneficial because they don't want to accept lower quality/high risk tenants at a reduced rate, for a shorter term. It's kind of Catch 22. Without the spaces filled the place doesn't improve. But properties owners are reluctant to lease out the spaces until it does improve. Hopefully the arena will be the tipping point.

[Pistola916]

The i15 project got scrapped by the developer due to small lot. Still possible it could be revived elsewhere in the grid


Developer scuttles plans for midtown apartments
http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/bob-shallit/article45416196.html

[wburg]

I guess I don't see how there isn't room for crowds and larger spaces in the heart of downtown Sacramento than on the edge of a low-rise residential neighborhood. If anything, I'd expect larger capacities and live music venues in a designated "entertainment district." I note that K Street as it exists isn't without live entertainment--I have seen live bands perform at Dive Bar and District 30, but they, like a lot of Midtown locales, are small venues that don't fill that mid-range venue size between dives and arenas where we have a gap.

The property owner mentality you mention is another obstacle to live music venues, as they are seen as high-risk/lower quality by many of the stodgier investment-banker types, who would rather have a nice quiet office tenant who can pay $3.50/square foot, or maybe a chain restaurant with enough money behind it to operate at a loss until they drive nearby locals out of business. The arena might be a tipping point or it might have made things worse--if these landlords assume their property is so much more valuable because of proximity to the arena, they raise rents even higher and thus have even more trouble finding tenants. Those office tenants and deep-pockets chain businesses aren't idiots, they didn't make their money by paying the highest rent in a risky location, so they'd no doubt avoid that kind of property owner like the plague.

And, of course, the same mentality keeps residents off K Street too--anytime housing is mentioned the old-school property owners and metro chamber types make noises about how hard it is to do downtown residential, how expensive it is and how much trouble, because they're not really convinced that anyone wants to live downtown and nobody they know in El Dorado Hills or Rancho Murieta or wherever wants to move downtown either.

[wburg]

Originally Posted by Pistola916

The i15 project by D&S Development is scrapped due to small lot. Still possible it could be revived elsewhere in the grid

Developer scuttles plans for midtown apartments
http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/bob-shallit/article45416196.html

Sad news--I know they tried really hard to make that work, and the basic idea was sound.