The Great Canadian Skyline Thread!

[caltrane74]

Well, I wouldn't call Drake and The Weeknd bubble gum...

All of their songs are X-Rated. ... A lot of pop stars have a lot of F/P/N/S/H/W/C words nowadays though..

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Well, I wouldn't call Drake and The Weeknd bubble gum...

All of their songs are X-Rated. ... A lot of pop stars have a lot of F/P/N/S/H/W/C words nowadays though..

Apparently successful=bubble gum.

Mediocre and unknown=underground/real

Typical loser mentality. The most successful artists always have the most critics (usually the bitter sour faced haters who couldn't make it on their own merit).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

"New York: an 8-million strong Hamilton with big skyscrapers"

I have to admit, I never quite thought of it that way before.

The exchanges that included that comment just left me speechless.

I... just... dunno.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by softee

Check out the billboard hot 100, Toronto and area artists have been dominating the top 5-10 songs these days.

I also think that much of what you posted is pretty ridiculous.

Who cares about a billboard list. Drake is popular but we're you around in Toronto when nobody here in the city payed any attention to him? It used to be trendy to hate on Drake in the city but now he is the darling child, but only after Americans warmed up to him. Before I moved here I was a big fan of his early stuff as I thought he was good Can-Con. Toronto folks didn't want to hear about him when I arrived. People would complain when I played his stuff at parties, now he is on repeat.

Billboard does not paint a picture of reality. Many of the trending Toronto acts could not even get a fair shake in their hometown.

The Toronto scene is owned by two massive promotion groups who don't want to grow artists or bring in interesting acts. If you
want to see some random EDM DJ that is cool, but a up and coming best artist from LA or something won't get brought in.

I still stand by what I say. Toronto is under deserving of it's attention. You see now Canadian exports aside from acts landing here in Toronto. Clothing boutiques from Edmonton, Restaurant ideas from Vancouver, Bars from Montreal, but you don't see the opposite....

If Toronto is some mecca of cool and culture where are the exports or copycats that would be copying or mimicking what is going on here?

I say this all personally as a creative person from a music background who has been within the fabric of the scene at large. I am not talking fluff here. It is my own personal views if course but have been crafted by six years in the city and ten years in music.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Are you saying that these type of opinions about NY are a prevalent perception among Canadians? If so, I'm surprised I've encountered so few of them having spent my entire life in Canada.

One has to be very careful not to confuse the traits of individual or niche groups with those of an entire culture. When observing human culture, the very first reaction upon encountering something curious or novel is, "What an odd/interesting individual". Then after much time, analysis and comparison, one can translate their observation into 'What an odd/interesting group". Getting to the point of examining entire nations on a cultural level of course requires exceptionally more vigour, and I would argue may even be beyond the scope of anecdote, and likely requires examining cultural media.

Now that's not to say that a person shouldn't analyse all of her or his human cultural interactions; there are myriad reasons why one should. I'm only commenting on the context in which one frames such interactions and the conclusions that are to be drawn.

While it's obviously not everyone or even a majority, the type of sentiment expressed by Mistercorporate is definitely present among Canadians. It's not just your isolated nut case on the street yelling ''the end is nigh''. Obviously it doesn't necessarily manifest itself in the ''Toronto is basically equivalent to NYC" way that we witnessed here, but certainly the impulse to demonstrate and seek recognition and approval (even in the face of ridicule) that Canadian Thing X is just as good as or even better than Thing X In Another Country (especially the US) is really strong among a certain chunk of the population. Enough for it to be a "thing" that people will sometimes notice about Canadians.

I suppose it's in some way related to Canada's low global profile and the sentiment that Canada doesn't get enough credit for all the things it does well (and people may have a point on this one BTW), but geez the way it plays out it can be so annoying and embarrassing sometimes.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Apparently successful=bubble gum.

Mediocre and unknown=underground/real

Typical loser mentality. The most successful artists always have the most critics (usually the bitter sour faced haters who couldn't make it on their own merit).

These (pop) acts require a shit load of marketing, and that marketing is successful because most young people don't seem to have the ability to recognize good music. Seems you can't either, and you're not young.

One of Drakes latest videos (Energy) depicts the same sad gangster themes that rap artists have been doling out for decades now. Drake from Toronto shooting a video in what looks like East LA. They do it because young people are attracted to this shit. No substance and all marketing.

[caltrane74]

But Future shot a video with Drake in Toronto...

Alessia Cara didn't have loads of marketing behind her. She just went viral, straight outta Brampton.

Shawn Mendes has been working the Toronto scene before he hit it big in the US.

[Acajack]

It's really hard to tell if today's chart-toppers (from Toronto or elsewhere) will leave a lasting impression on music or not. Michael Jackson in his heyday was dissed by a lot of people and look at what people say about him now.

On the other hand, one summer in my youth the pop music charts were totally dominated by Tiffany and Debi Gibson. So there you go.


Only time will tell if all these acts from Toronto that are currently hot will end up being remembered as musical Camembert or musical Velveeta.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Gerrard

Osmo's views are ridiculous. But honestly while Toronto does have a great street vibe it has a great street vibe for a city of 2.5. New York is 3x as large and it's apparent. It's great to say, yeah New York is a city one should strive to be more like but to suggest Toronto is even close isn't really accurate.

But it's dynamic, in a constant state of flux blah blah blah, and that's great. It's that dynamism that puts it in a league ahead of other Canadian metropolises but not in New York's.

It's ok to be number one in a B-list country.

I think I know the answer already but I wonder what the view would be if Vancouver was evoked as roughly equivalent to Toronto as a city, given that the 3 for 1 rapport roughly applies there too. (And let's not even mention Montreal, which is even closer to Toronto in size.)

I already sense a "b-b-b-b-ut... it's not the same thing!" type of post, with something about ''diminishing returns'' disfavouring New York in the comparison with Toronto...

[Pinion]

nm bad photo

[leftimage]

Downtown Montreal from my place over the weekend. Skyline looks noticeably fuller since I first moved in 2 years ago.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by logan5

These (pop) acts require a shit load of marketing, and that marketing is successful because most young people don't seem to have the ability to recognize good music. Seems you can't either, and you're not young.

One of Drakes latest videos (Energy) depicts the same sad gangster themes that rap artists have been doling out for decades now. Drake from Toronto shooting a video in what looks like East LA. They do it because young people are attracted to this shit. No substance and all marketing.

There are many valid criticisms of Drake and his music, but fake imagery and disloyalty to his city are not one of them. If anything, he has a soft, harmless image that has likely hurt him more than helped. Yeah he has some tougher songs, but they're far from the sort that would be trying to cash in on any sort of gangster persona. If you don't like his music, that's fine, but it has much more substance than I think you give it credit for.

And when it comes to Toronto, Drake's been huge. He mentions it in countless songs and put it on the map not just in hip hop but in general pop culture. He even had a shout out for Mississauga in his latest album! Toronto was really not on the radar here growing up. Obviously every one knew about it, its position in Canada, etc.. But Drake made it cool. Now other pop artists are shouting it out too and it seems like people are paying more attention to it. From an outsider's perspective, Drake has done great things for Toronto's image and cultural relevance, and I would kill to have an artist like him represent Vancouver like that.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Acajack

While it's obviously not everyone or even a majority, the type of sentiment expressed by Mistercorporate is definitely present among Canadians. It's not just your isolated nut case on the street yelling ''the end is nigh''. Obviously it doesn't necessarily manifest itself in the ''Toronto is basically equivalent to NYC" way that we witnessed here, but certainly the impulse to demonstrate and seek recognition and approval (even in the face of ridicule) that Canadian Thing X is just as good as or even better than Thing X In Another Country (especially the US) is really strong among a certain chunk of the population. Enough for it to be a "thing" that people will sometimes notice about Canadians.

I suppose it's in some way related to Canada's low global profile and the sentiment that Canada doesn't get enough credit for all the things it does well (and people may have a point on this one BTW), but geez the way it plays out it can be so annoying and embarrassing sometimes.

How do you think it compares to the US of say, 75-100 years ago? And what affect would it have on a society's national self perception over an extended time? Do you consider it a brief passing phase?

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by leftimage

Downtown Montreal from my place over the weekend. Skyline looks noticeably fuller since I first moved in 2 years ago.

It does. I'm glad the old RBC HQ survived the Griffintown wave and is still visible from your balcony. Also, the TDC is a monster, it really does add bulk and height to the skyline.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by osmo

Who cares about a billboard list. Drake is popular but we're you around in Toronto when nobody here in the city payed any attention to him? It used to be trendy to hate on Drake in the city but now he is the darling child, but only after Americans warmed up to him. Before I moved here I was a big fan of his early stuff as I thought he was good Can-Con. Toronto folks didn't want to hear about him when I arrived. People would complain when I played his stuff at parties, now he is on repeat.

Billboard does not paint a picture of reality. Many of the trending Toronto acts could not even get a fair shake in their hometown.

The Toronto scene is owned by two massive promotion groups who don't want to grow artists or bring in interesting acts. If you
want to see some random EDM DJ that is cool, but a up and coming best artist from LA or something won't get brought in.

I still stand by what I say. Toronto is under deserving of it's attention. You see now Canadian exports aside from acts landing here in Toronto. Clothing boutiques from Edmonton, Restaurant ideas from Vancouver, Bars from Montreal, but you don't see the opposite....

If Toronto is some mecca of cool and culture where are the exports or copycats that would be copying or mimicking what is going on here?

I say this all personally as a creative person from a music background who has been within the fabric of the scene at large. I am not talking fluff here. It is my own personal views if course but have been crafted by six years in the city and ten years in music.

So you're saying you liked Drake before it was cool?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

How do you think it compares to the US of say, 75-100 years ago? And what affect would it have on a society's national self perception over an extended time? Do you consider it a brief passing phase?

That's actually a pretty good question.

I don't think the U.S. boosterism of that era was born out of a feeling of being unappreciated. So in this sense it differs quite a bit from whatever we might have going on in Canada.

Also, the side-effects of this sentiment in the U.S. manifested themselves in ways Canada is very unlikely to emulate: isolationism from the wider world in some cases (world wars, international bodies that the U.S. can't control, etc.), and at the other extreme a tendency to meddle in the affairs of other countries (Monroe Doctrine, Truman Doctrine, Bush Doctrine, etc)

Anyway, I frankly have no idea if Canada will grow out of it, and if it does, whether it will be a happy evolution.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think I know the answer already but I wonder what the view would be if Vancouver was evoked as roughly equivalent to Toronto as a city, given that the 3 for 1 rapport roughly applies there too. (And let's not even mention Montreal, which is even closer to Toronto in size.)

I already sense a "b-b-b-b-ut... it's not the same thing!" type of post, with something about ''diminishing returns'' disfavouring New York in the comparison with Toronto...

I think you're searching for something that's not there, Acajack.

The vast majority of Torontonians know that their city is not comparable architecturally, economically, culturally or historically with New York. If they express a preference, they express a preference the way anyone does: because Toronto has certain favourable, local traits that are quite idiosyncratic.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I think you're searching for something that's not there, Acajack.

The vast majority of Torontonians know that their city is not comparable architecturally, economically, culturally or historically with New York. If they express a preference, they express a preference the way anyone does: because Toronto has certain favourable, local traits that are quite idiosyncratic.

Oh, I know that for sure. I am just going along with the logic that started all of this.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

There are many valid criticisms of Drake and his music, but fake imagery and disloyalty to his city are not one of them. If anything, he has a soft, harmless image that has likely hurt him more than helped. Yeah he has some tougher songs, but they're far from the sort that would be trying to cash in on any sort of gangster persona. If you don't like his music, that's fine, but it has much more substance than I think you give it credit for.

Don't think he is necessarily being disloyal to Toronto, but why is an artist from Toronto shooting a video in East LA?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by logan5

Don't think he is necessarily being disloyal to Toronto, but why is an artist from Toronto shooting a video in East LA?

Artists shoot videos all over the place. The video for the new song by British singer Adele was filmed in the Eastern Townships of Quebec.