AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by electricron

75 miles isn't that difficult to travel, considering almost everyone rents a car at airports anyways.
Never-the-less, people travel by other means than just by air. Did travelers have much difficult reaching Austin before ABIA opened? How much easier is it afterwards? 10%, 50%, 100%?

Before ABIA we had Mueller which had 16 gates.

Austin is just way more accessible than Morgantown, and has been for _decades_.

Even before ABIA, Austin had more than just 3 flights a day.

[Digatisdi]

Originally Posted by Flatiron

This looks exciting!

Okay so speaking of the Bowie Underpass, what the hell happened to the plan to improve the pedestrian crossing at Lamar, 3rd, and the UPRR with pedestrian gates and a level path?

I remember seeing the schematics and then it kind of vanished.

[KevinFromTexas]

http://communityimpact.com/2015/11/0...avenue-bridge/

New trail connection planned under Congress Avenue bridge
The Trail Foundation announces $2.5M project

By Joe LananeNovember 6, 2015

The trail beneath the north side of the Ann Richards Congress Avenue Bridge will soon undergo a major facelift.

The Trail Foundation, an Austin nonprofit that works to protect and improve the Ann and Roy Butler Hike & Bike Trail along Lady Bird Lake, announced Nov. 6 a $2.5 million trail improvement project that will replace aging infrastructure underneath Congress Avenue with a new bridge. The will result in improved ADA accessibility, a wider trail—from 6 feet to 14 feet in some portions—and beautification efforts in an area that has remained the same for roughly 40 years, TTF Executive Director Susan Rankin said.

The new bridge will also include a bat observation landing so onlookers do not get in the way of trail users, Rankin said.

http://communityimpact.com/2015/11/0...avenue-bridge/

[Digatisdi]

As needed as I think this is, I'd like to see more focus on the trail near Longhorn Dam—as in the dam needs to be replaced, but I understand that's more a City thing than a TTF thing.

I also still kind of hate the pontoon bridge proposal...

[the Genral]

I have a tendency to believe developers think things all the way through, like how the byproduct of the bats living above will affect this struture?? The earthen trail used now could absorb the mess. Eventually, bat waste would accumulate on the rails and deck. I like the design, but for most of the year, a few spots could get pretty gross.

[drummer]

Study: I-35 in Austin is most congested road in Texas

http://www.kvue.com/story/news/traff...exas/75514436/


Anyone up for more rail yet?

[AustinYIMBY]

I don't remember ever seeing a proposal to put a commuter rail along the I-35 corridor. Does anyone know of this ever being on the table?

I can envision a rail running down the middle of the highway, similar to what Chicago has along parts of the Dan Ryan Expressway. Ideally it would run from Georgetown to Buda/Kyle. It would need to be on elevated tracks for much of the route, since the center median of the hwy is nothing more than a concrete wall for a lot of the route. Having park-and-ride lots/garages in Georgetown, Round Rock, North Austin, Buda, etc along the tracks could allow people working downtown to leave their car up north and alleviate some traffic on the hwy and the surface streets downtown.

I commute on I-35 everyday, mostly because my office is right off the hwy in North Austin. I live just south of downtown and it takes about 20-25 min to get to work and nearly an hour to get home everyday. Luckily I am able to carpool with my girlfriend and we are basically on a "reverse commute". I looked into public transportation and it would take a minimum of 1.5 hours each way, and that is including about 30 min on the bike and taking the red line train. I wouldn't even consider taking the bus for that distance, because I'm sure it would be sitting in traffic along with all the other vehicles.

I would have to imagine that a lot of the commuters on I-35 are people who work downtown for the state but live in the north suburbs because it is so difficult to afford a house in central Austin. Allowing these people and the many others who work downtown (with many more coming with the office development DT) to leave their cars in the burbs and take a train, would cut down on traffic and overall commute time.
The main reason I can see this never happening though, is the fact that this would require MAJOR coordination with TXDOT and I really don't see that happening anytime soon since TXDOT doesn't seem too interested in rail. Instead, they want to add more lanes...

[smith_atx]

^
Lone Star Rail
http://lonestarrail.com/index.php/lstar/map/

[AustinYIMBY]

One more thought...
A commuter rail along I-35 would really only be practical if the people had transit options available once they get off the train downtown.
I know a lot of people on this forum thought the gondola system was a crazy pipe dream (which I agree that the people who released the "plans" had very little technical knowledge and seemed more interested in the branding of the system), but I think that could be great way to get people from I-35 to other spots around downtown. It could run as a circulator system around downtown. Since the rail stations in downtown would likely also need to be elevated, this would work perfectly for the gondola system which also needs to be elevated.
I suppose this could also fit in with the PRT proposal, but I really dislike that proposal. To me, it is far too bulky and restrictive to where it can go. Adding all that concrete at ground level does not seem like progress to me.
I see the future of transit as automated pods, that use GPS and communication with other vehicles, while using the existing road infrastructure. Once a majority of the cars on the road where able to "talk to each other", speeds could greatly increase, distance between vehicles could decrease, and traffic jams would overall go away. But until then, we need something!

[AustinYIMBY]

I am aware of Lone Star Rail, and would LOVE to see that come to fruition. My concern with that is it is pretty far from I-35 when going through Austin, and would not have many stops in Austin.
That does bring up a good point though. In order for Lone Star Rail to work, the freight rail traffic would need to be re-routed to the east along new rail. Lone Star is obviously much further along in the planning process, so I doubt much attention would be given to a rail the runs a parallel route. Damn...

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by kadingpa

I don't remember ever seeing a proposal to put a commuter rail along the I-35 corridor. Does anyone know of this ever being on the table?

I can envision a rail running down the middle of the highway, similar to what Chicago has along parts of the Dan Ryan Expressway. Ideally it would run from Georgetown to Buda/Kyle. It would need to be on elevated tracks for much of the route, since the center median of the hwy is nothing more than a concrete wall for a lot of the route. Having park-and-ride lots/garages in Georgetown, Round Rock, North Austin, Buda, etc along the tracks could allow people working downtown to leave their car up north and alleviate some traffic on the hwy and the surface streets downtown.

I commute on I-35 everyday, mostly because my office is right off the hwy in North Austin. I live just south of downtown and it takes about 20-25 min to get to work and nearly an hour to get home everyday. Luckily I am able to carpool with my girlfriend and we are basically on a "reverse commute". I looked into public transportation and it would take a minimum of 1.5 hours each way, and that is including about 30 min on the bike and taking the red line train. I wouldn't even consider taking the bus for that distance, because I'm sure it would be sitting in traffic along with all the other vehicles.

I would have to imagine that a lot of the commuters on I-35 are people who work downtown for the state but live in the north suburbs because it is so difficult to afford a house in central Austin. Allowing these people and the many others who work downtown (with many more coming with the office development DT) to leave their cars in the burbs and take a train, would cut down on traffic and overall commute time.
The main reason I can see this never happening though, is the fact that this would require MAJOR coordination with TXDOT and I really don't see that happening anytime soon since TXDOT doesn't seem too interested in rail. Instead, they want to add more lanes...

Rail in the I35 corridor (directly) is a non-starter. There's no room for it in the corridor anywhere near downtown. Even elevated, since they already elevated lanes through there.

Rail near it (like on red-river, trinity, airport), well that's what just got voted down.

North of there, expansion towards RR/Georgetown in the corridor would have been a potential option. But c'est la vie.

[Tech House]

Originally Posted by kadingpa

I see the future of transit as automated pods, that use GPS and communication with other vehicles, while using the existing road infrastructure. Once a majority of the cars on the road where able to "talk to each other", speeds could greatly increase, distance between vehicles could decrease...

I hadn't ever thought about the implications of increasingly effective automated vehicles but doesn't it seem like you'd get to a certain point where they were capable of doing things that would cause people to suffer severe anxiety, like a Mr. Toad's Wild Ride but without the reassurance of being on tracks in a family theme park? Of course it would never come to that because there'd be some optimum pace at which things would be designed to operate, but the theoretical possibilities are fun to consider. It would look like a two-dimensional swarm at 4x normal speed. I like it!

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by kadingpa

I am aware of Lone Star Rail, and would LOVE to see that come to fruition. My concern with that is it is pretty far from I-35 when going through Austin, and would not have many stops in Austin.
That does bring up a good point though. In order for Lone Star Rail to work, the freight rail traffic would need to be re-routed to the east along new rail. Lone Star is obviously much further along in the planning process, so I doubt much attention would be given to a rail the runs a parallel route. Damn...

I don't like the LSTAR route at all through Austin and I'll explain why in more detail below but first I would point out that the LSTAR is very much a large regional line so it doesn't really make sense for people to take it short distances unless they there's a ticket plan that accounts for one stop or two stops over trips.


When the idea of LSTAR began many years ago I was all for it. Having a rail line connecting Austin with San Antonio is something that should be done to give people an option to driving 35. Then it kept getting pushed back and back and so on and so forth and the years went by and when it started popping back up again over the last 3 years, I started to change my mind.

First reason is look at the line itself. It's a freight line (the Missouri-Pacific line to be exact), that merely passes through Austin. It goes through neighborhoods on the southside, skirts the corner of DT then goes through the central part of the city in between Mopac before going back through more neighborhoods. kadingpa brought it up already. Not many stops in Austin and not any that actually serve a major destination or point of interest save for Downtown.

Now look at the line in San Antonio. The proposed stops that are planned there do serve major destinations or points of interest such as their airport, SA inland port, the medical district and their DT amongst others. That puts Austin at a disadvantage. Why would people use it here other than to get to DT or go down to SM, NB or SA? The proposed stops through Austin would simply be park and ride with no other point to them because they won't be near anything.

I think it's pointless and not in the best interest of Austin with the current line as is. I say rebuild the segment of track that I live by which would split off by St. Elmo go east towards the airport then build a new track to connect with the existing Metrorail line back into DT (though I doubt Cap Metro would be interested). That would make it possible for a South Congress stop in an area that is rapidly transforming with several VMUs including the St. Elmo Market and hotel. It would also go through a commercial zone where another stop could be placed then a stop by the airport. That would at least give us some actual destination stops besides just the one for DT.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I don't like the LSTAR route at all through Austin and I'll explain why in more detail below but first I would point out that the LSTAR is very much a large regional line so it doesn't really make sense for people to take it short distances unless they there's a ticket plan that accounts for one stop or two stops over trips.

Define short distance. Is RR to Downtown or Georgetown to downtown "short distance"?

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

Not many stops in Austin and not any that actually serve a major destination or point of interest save for Downtown.

And the Domain.

And the McNeil/Robinson Ranch area. Those are the 3 densest/eventually densest areas of the city.

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

then build a new track to connect with the existing Metrorail line back into DT (though I doubt Cap Metro would be interested).

Where? East from St. Elmo only gets you as far as (not quite) Burleson and Montopolis. Even if you strike immediately north of here (through non-existent Row) and build a brand new bridge, you're going massively out of your way. North along Congress to downtown (from St elmo) is 3 miles, that roundabout rail route is 9 miles (3X as long).

[AustinYIMBY]

I would still be in favor of seeing the Lone Star happen for a couple reasons:

1. Even though the route isn't perfect to meet the demands of the most people, I think it would still be an option for some people to commute to and from DT, which we definitely need more options.

2. Having this route will contribute to the overall goal of building better connectivity between the metro areas in the "Texas Triangle" (DFW, San Antonio, Houston, and of course Austin in between).

3. Having a new route for Union Pacific freight trains would be good for people living in Austin and Union Pacific. The trains that come through have to slow down significantly when going over Lady Bird Lake and around that curve towards MoPac. They also have to wait (on the stretch of tracks along MoPac north of 2222) for opposite direction trains to pass because of the single rail alignment along much of the route through Austin. This would help a rail industry that deals with significant bottlenecks and delays. Shorter passenger trains would also pass through the at-grade crossings faster, thus reducing the traffic delays.

4. Getting rid of most freight on the line might help Amtrak service run more smoothly and possibly more frequently.

But alas, I do not think this would have much impact on the "short" commutes within the Austin Metro area. An actual "intra-metro area" train is needed to achieve flexibility of adding more trains when needed and ability to have more frequent stops so people might actually be able to walk from the train to destination.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by kadingpa

1. Even though the route isn't perfect to meet the demands of the most people, I think it would still be an option for some people to commute to and from DT, which we definitely need more options.

Agree

Austin needs more options and all the help it can get. Even if the rail were only to attract downtown commuters (I think it'll attract more, but even hypothetically) that's X number of cars off the roads in the congested downtown sections.

And it does so (relatively) cheaply.

They're talking about adding 1 more set of lanes to I35. But after that, we're out of room (on both mopac and 35). And even that expansion is something like 4 _billion_ dollars.

After that, we need more capacity, and no more RoW for downtown roads. So the proposed system can at least help some.

[AustinYIMBY]

^amen!
It disheartens me that the agency(TXDOT) that should be looking into the future and future needs, seems so intent on just adding more lanes. This is the time when they should be looking into alternatives to just adding more capacity for cars. Because as you said, once they fill all of the ROW with lanes, adding anything else will be even more difficult. I-35 is already a heavily developed corridor, even without the added through traffic. I believe this route would be a complete slam dunk in terms of ridership and effect on traffic.

I'm not sure if this information is out there, but it would be interesting to see the percentage of traffic on I-35 that is interstate/region freight, interstate/region passenger, commutes to jobs DT, and other even more local traffic.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by kadingpa

I'm not sure if this information is out there, but it would be interesting to see the percentage of traffic on I-35 that is interstate/region freight, interstate/region passenger, commutes to jobs DT, and other even more local traffic.

Apparently 86% is "local"

Where local is defined as the 3 county region (Travis/Williamson/Hays)

https://tti.tamu.edu/2015/08/13/rese...s-i-35-sh-130/

[drummer]

I like LoneStar a lot - it's not intended to be a convenient rail within the city of Austin; it's intended to be a commuter rail to get people to and from Austin, as well as Georgetown, Round Rock, Buda/Kyle, San Marcos, New Braunfels, and San Antonio - and a few other stops outside of their downtown areas respectively. What is needed isn't to change LoneStar's path, which is actually decent for its purpose, but to connect it to other modes of transportation within especially Austin's and San Antonio's core areas. This is where urban rail, an effective bus system, and honestly a better connectivity to the Metro Line (and any future extensions), come in mind. It's not a fix-all but rather a component of a hopefully-oneday-maybe-possibly-onlyifvotersgettheirheadsoutofthesanditcanhappen, well-rounded system.

This is a stretch, but look at LIRR in connecting communities from Long Island to the NYC core. Obviously it's not fair to compare Central Texas to New York, but if we are ever going to take steps in the right direction, I think LoneStar is a great start.

[NYC2ATX]

Originally Posted by Novacek

And the McNeil/Robinson Ranch area. Those are the 3 densest/eventually densest areas of the city.

Forgive me going OT a bit, but could you (or anyone) elaborate a little on this area? I wasn't aware of any major plans for that area other than the apartment construction immediately surrounding Lakeline Mall, and now I'm curious