New Downtown Calgary Arena - Page 149

Ferreth · #**2961** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 3:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-tacular

While I'm not in favour of subsidizing the majority of this thing the way it's proposed your argument could just as easily be applied to things like public art. Most people don't care, so why bother?

If the talk was about spending 2 million, or even 20 million, I'd say fair point - but for 200 million, I'd hope we could get better than 50% of the public agreeing that this would be a worthy enhancement to the city. Speaking of art, I have heard little about how this space would work for concerts - would they be using the arena, field, or either depending on need? Would this now allow us to attract any potential act? That result would be an enhancement to the city I would be willing to throw some public dollars to.

DizzyEdge · #**2962** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 3:18 PM**

Normally I'd say forget about it, re: Olympics, but if we can use existing facilities to greatly reduce the typical spend then I'd consider it

artvandelay · #**2963** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 4:39 PM**

It's also important to note that many of our winter sports facilities (including the bobsleigh track and oval) are getting to the age where they are going to need some serious investment in order to remain top of class. The Olympics are a vehicle to achieve this.

Fuzz · #**2964** Posted **Sep 17, 2015, 5:11 PM**

Ski jumps are not up to new specifications either. There were also around 50 events in 1988, there are well over 100 now.

monocle · #**2965** Posted **Sep 28, 2015, 7:05 PM**

Did I just hear an allusion to the new barn on 960? Pretty sure Steinberg said something like "...new sports buildings...listen after 3" I probably am missing something, but curious where things are at as well.

suburbia · #**2966** Posted **Sep 29, 2015, 1:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by artvandelay

It's also important to note that many of our winter sports facilities (including the bobsleigh track and oval) are getting to the age where they are going to need some serious investment in order to remain top of class. The Olympics are a vehicle to achieve this.

Absolutely true. A Calgary Olympics will not be about re-using everything, rather, about upgrading but with smart solutions and not blowing away money like Beijing and Sochi. As one example, Oval as it is has great ice, but that's about it -> requires better entry, exit, air handling, restrooms, etc.

Socguy · #**2967** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 4:22 PM**

comparison between Edmonton's Rogers place and the proposed CalgaryNext

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-ne...e-and-proposed-calgary-arena-development

monocle · #**2968** Posted **Nov 6, 2015, 2:34 PM**

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news...assessment-of-west-village-contamination

Neat then and now pics at the end of the article.

Socguy · #**2969** Posted **Nov 7, 2015, 5:25 PM**

^ It will be interesting to see if the Province can get Domtar to pay for the cleanup. I think it will be a longshot, but if they can it will have huge implications for all the other old abandoned polluted sites across the Province.

PPAR · #**2970** Posted **Nov 8, 2015, 2:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socguy

^ It will be interesting to see if the Province can get Domtar to pay for the cleanup. I think it will be a longshot, but if they can it will have huge implications for all the other old abandoned polluted sites across the Province.

Less than zero chance of that. Once the province accepted responsibility for the site, we were hooped. A decision that was clearly a political favour in its day.

bt04ku · #**2971** Posted **Nov 8, 2015, 2:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PPAR

Less than zero chance of that. Once the province accepted responsibility for the site, we were hooped. A decision that was clearly a political favour in its day.

Did the province accept responsibility or did they simply agree to put the onus on remediation on whoever develops the site? Becuase if I were the Flames and the city I would jump as quickly at the opportunity as possible to get this built if the province did the former or hold the company responsible.

MalcolmTucker · #**2972** Posted **Nov 9, 2015, 6:14 AM**

I think the successor companies have been bankrupt at least once and if they were carrying this liability on the books it would have been dealt with at one of the bankruptcies. Hence why it is worth it to see if there are any assets around that a liability like this would have had higher claim on, and whether you can reach through half a century to do that.

tomthumb2 · #**2973** Posted **Nov 9, 2015, 5:19 PM**

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news...f-flames-890-million-calgarynext-project

If you go by the few comments already, it looks like this will never fly... so long Flames?

McMurph · #**2974** Posted **Nov 9, 2015, 5:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news...f-flames-890-million-calgarynext-project

If you go by the few comments already, it looks like this will never fly... so long Flames?

I wish people would stop implying that moving the Flames is either a serious option or something that the owners have ever suggested. Whether or not this proposal flies, the Flames will stay. If the owners want an arena they'll get one someplace, someday. It may not be CalgaryNext but it will be in Calgary.

milomilo · #**2975** Posted **Nov 9, 2015, 5:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McMurph

I wish people would stop implying that moving the Flames is either a serious option or something that the owners have ever suggested. Whether or not this proposal flies, the Flames will stay. If the owners want an arena they'll get one someplace, someday. It may not be CalgaryNext but it will be in Calgary.

If they do move, or threaten to move, why should we care? It would just prove these sports teams have no love for the city and do not deserve any 'patriotism'.

MalcolmTucker · #**2976** Posted **Nov 9, 2015, 6:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo

If they do move, or threaten to move, why should we care? It would just prove these sports teams have no love for the city and do not deserve any 'patriotism'.

Eventually the existing stadium will change from being less than optimal to marginally functional, and if it uneconomic to stay, they will leave, or fold.

It would be like the Airport authority claiming Air Canada didn't have any Calgary pride if they refused to land without the airport runway being cleared of snow. It may not be a safety or function issue today - but it will be unless something is done.

In any case, the Flames are putting in $450 million plus operating in the proposed model as far as we have seen at the high level, so yeah, might we end up with the arena at a different place where it is cheaper to build? Maybe. I doubt they, or the city, or most citizens want to build at the Anderson TOD though.

McMurph · #**2977** Posted **Nov 9, 2015, 7:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Eventually the existing stadium will change from being less than optimal to marginally functional, and if it uneconomic to stay, they will leave, or fold.

It would be like the Airport authority claiming Air Canada didn't have any Calgary pride if they refused to land without the airport runway being cleared of snow. It may not be a safety or function issue today - but it will be unless something is done.

In any case, the Flames are putting in $450 million plus operating in the proposed model as far as we have seen at the high level, so yeah, might we end up with the arena at a different place where it is cheaper to build? Maybe. I doubt they, or the city, or most citizens want to build at the Anderson TOD though.

The Flames could play in the Corral and be more profitable than a number of US teams. There has never been a serious suggestion that they would consider moving and they themselves have never brought it into the arena conversation.

MalcolmTucker · #**2978** Posted **Nov 9, 2015, 7:12 PM**

Yeah, they haven't. But that doesn't mean that maintaining the status quo is sustainable stretching out into the future.

I've said many times on this board, I just don't think these facilities can really support themselves outside of mega markets. There has been little to no evidence presented to show that they have, besides in Toronto, New York, London.

tomthumb2 · #**2979** Posted **Nov 10, 2015, 7:48 AM**

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news...oposal-a-half-baked-proposal-says-nenshi

...doesn't look like it will ever see the light of day (if Nenshi has anything to do with it)

McMurph · #**2980** Posted **Nov 10, 2015, 3:59 PM**

I don't read Nenshi's comments as being obstructionist, he's just calling it like it is and asking for careful and transparent study. The Flames' proposal as unveiled earlier this year was definitely "half-baked" -- the contrast between the scale of the project and the professionalism of the proposal was ridiculous.

The city isn't the thing that is holding this back. The scale of the project, the nature of the site and the Flames apparent desire to squeeze the public for as much as they can get is going to draw it out for a very long time. Due process demands it.